Hongbit Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: ERod wanted money to waive his no trade clause. It was way too easy for Harris to blame ERod and not accept the blame. But yeah, it's not the job of the GM to work out a trade. It's all the greedy players fault. 🤔 Javy’s plate discipline is sounder than this post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 37 minutes ago, chasfh said: There are a lot of people advocating for Skubal to be traded so we can get something anything for him before he inevitably leaves on the Boras Express. Are you one of them? I myself am not close to there yet. I want them to keep him as long as they can. You normally don't get better trading a candidate for CY Young to get a bunch of prospects. I would like to see the Tigers fire Hinch, actually try to put a competent team on the field, and keep their best players. The last year the Tigers were competitive was 2016. It seriously should not take 3 presidential cycles for a team to stop sucking in modern baseball. This ownership is unable or unwilling to put a decent product on the field, so I don't see any other option than for the Tigers to trade Skubal, probably at the all star break next season. They are really trying hard to get normal people to not care about the team. Edited June 13 by tiger2022 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 16 minutes ago, chasfh said: I agree that Harris had to accept responsibility for the trade not happening, and I remember him standing up and doing so at the time. I’m just not clear on what Harris did or did not do, irrespective of anything Eduardo did, that cost the deal? Was everybody totally in for the deal and at the last second Harris botched it all on his own? Is that your understanding of it? I dont know or even care anymore. And I think Harris should be given time, as I've said. But every mistake he makes shouldn't be blamed on past GMs or on players. What will people be saying in 5 years if the Tigers are still fighting to reach .500? Stupid Avila...greedy players...bad breaks. The buck stops at the top... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 20 minutes ago, Hongbit said: Javy’s plate discipline is sounder than this post. Yup, it's all on the players. And Avila. And the fans for accepting a horribly built roster...hee-hee, suckers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 15 minutes ago, chasfh said: I agree that Harris had to accept responsibility for the trade not happening, and I remember him standing up and doing so at the time. I’m just not clear on what Harris did or did not do, irrespective of anything Eduardo did, that cost the deal? Was everybody totally in for the deal and at the last second Harris botched it all on his own? Is that your understanding of it? Why did he accept responsibility for it if he was not at all responsible? It was a difficult situation, but I think it's impossible for us to know all the details. It's possible that Harris did not know Rodriguez and his agent well enough to understand that something like that might happen. I mean Rodriguez was always an odd duck. Perhaps if he understood him better, he could have anticipated it and worked something out. Or maybe he did everything he could. I don't know. I question it because, while he seems bright, he doesn't doesn't strike me as a great communicator. But I could be wrong about that too! As a dumb fan, I just see it as the GMs job to get transactons worked out. I am not so interested in the details as to why he can or can not get deals done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Yup, it's all on the players. And Avila. And the fans for accepting a horribly built roster...hee-hee, suckers... I don’t accept any of it. This product sucks. Everyone from ownership all the way down has to accept some of the responsibility. I just think specifically blaming Harris for the failed ERod trade is a dumb hill to die on. Edited June 13 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 20 minutes ago, Hongbit said: I don’t accept any of it. This product sucks. Everyone from ownership all the way down has to accept some of the responsibility. I just think specifically blaming Harris for the failed ERod trade is a dumb hill to die on. How about trading foe Nuck Maton? Letting Candelario walk? Letting Spencer Turnbull walk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: How about trading foe Nuck Maton? Letting Candelario walk? Letting Spencer Turnbull walk? To be fair Turnbull is a reliever for them now and has given up earned runs in 5 of his 8 appearances. We already have a righty that does that in Will Vest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 8 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: To be fair Turnbull is a reliever for them now and has given up earned runs in 5 of his 8 appearances. We already have a righty that does that in Will Vest. With a better than a 2.96 ERA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) Wrong thread Edited June 13 by Sports_Freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 4 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: With a better than a 2.96 ERA? judging relievers on ERA? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 minute ago, Sports_Freak said: With a better than a 2.96 ERA? Since moving to reliever he has a 6.08 ERA in his 7 appearances. He started to start the year and was moved to the BP. Vest's last 7 appearances 3.18 ERA. Turnbull even with the starting bump is worth .2 WAR more than Vest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 minutes ago, oblong said: judging relievers on ERA? People do it all the time. It's not win and loss stat, it's how many earned runs a pitcher allows per 9 innings. Kind of important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: Since moving to reliever he has a 6.08 ERA in his 7 appearances. He started to start the year and was moved to the BP. Vest's last 7 appearances 3.18 ERA. Turnbull even with the starting bump is worth .2 WAR more than Vest. Lol..point taken. But comparing someone to Vest? 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 25 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: People do it all the time. It's not win and loss stat, it's how many earned runs a pitcher allows per 9 innings. Kind of important. If a reliever has a bad outing and gives up 4 runs, it takes him 10 or 11 more outings to get his era respectable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Well, it’s still lunchtime here on the West Coast and I already have gotten my daily limit for stupid reading the last page or so. Carry on. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Just now, Dan Gilmore said: Well, it’s still lunchtime here on the West Coast and I already have gotten my daily limit for stupid reading the last page or so. Carry on. At least you got it out of the way so you can enjoy the rest of your day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 6 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said: Well, it’s still lunchtime here on the West Coast and I already have gotten my daily limit for stupid reading the last page or so. Carry on. Thanks for adding your input to the stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: Why did he accept responsibility for it if he was not at all responsible? It was a difficult situation, but I think it's impossible for us to know all the details. It's possible that Harris did not know Rodriguez and his agent well enough to understand that something like that might happen. I mean Rodriguez was always an odd duck. Perhaps if he understood him better, he could have anticipated it and worked something out. Or maybe he did everything he could. I don't know. I question it because, while he seems bright, he doesn't doesn't strike me as a great communicator. But I could be wrong about that too! As a dumb fan, I just see it as the GMs job to get transactons worked out. I am not so interested in the details as to why he can or can not get deals done. I never said Harris was not at all responsible. I in fact have said on more than one occasion that as PBO he is responsible whether it’s his actual fault or not. I also don’t know where you got the idea I have "undying faith" in him, unless you’re just trolling, in which case, OK. Edited June 13 by chasfh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, tiger2022 said: I want them to keep him as long as they can. You normally don't get better trading a candidate for CY Young to get a bunch of prospects. I would like to see the Tigers fire Hinch, actually try to put a competent team on the field, and keep their best players. If it’s about putting a competent team on the field and keeping their best players, then is firing Hinch enough? He’s not the guy bringing the players into the organization, right? At that point you ‘d have to fire Harris as well, clean out the front office he put together, and start with a fresh philosophy. You down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 8 hours ago, chasfh said: Am I not, though? Maybe I'm not interpreting it all properly, but it looks to me as though many, if not most, of the posters here are complaining loudly about how we are not winning and competing for a ring, or at least playoffs, with this team as currently constructed, with the players we have on the team right now, as though Harris has had plenty of time, we should be all done remaking the team by now, and we should expect to be playing baseball in October instead of golf, and anything less than that is a failure. I don't see it that way at all. I thought at the beginning of the season we would have a puncher's chance to make the playoffs, but I can see now that I too overrated their progress at the time. The difference with me, I think, is that I've come around to the idea that the organization was just not as far along as I'd hoped, while others seem to believe we have the horses right now and that it's the coaching that's failing us. You can slice it any which way, but the product on the field is not entertaining to watch 4 nights out of five, and if management can’t at least manage that, they need to stop charging real money for unentertaining entertainment. It’s one thing to lose, it another to lose boring, listless and lifeless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 3 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Why did he accept responsibility for it if he was not at all responsible? It was a difficult situation, but I think it's impossible for us to know all the details. It's possible that Harris did not know Rodriguez and his agent well enough to understand that something like that might happen. I mean Rodriguez was always an odd duck. Perhaps if he understood him better, he could have anticipated it and worked something out. Or maybe he did everything he could. I don't know. I question it because, while he seems bright, he doesn't doesn't strike me as a great communicator. But I could be wrong about that too! As a dumb fan, I just see it as the GMs job to get transactons worked out. I am not so interested in the details as to why he can or can not get deals done. There is only one possibility with this deal that makes sense, and that’s Erod’s agent agreed to terms for the deal and then reneged at the last minute. Nothing else seems at all likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 3 minutes ago, Longgone said: There is only one possibility with this deal that makes sense, and that’s Erod’s agent agreed to terms for the deal and then reneged at the last minute. Nothing else seems at all likely. I think his head not being in a good place at the time and him not wanting to jump into the pressure cooker of the Dodgers in a pennant race also seems very believable. It’s all speculation and we will never know. What doesn’t make sense was the earlier assertion that ERod would’ve gone to the Dodgers if he was paid more money and that somehow fell on Scott Harris to make happen. Not sure how that would be the Tigers responsibility as the team trading an expiring contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, chasfh said: I never said Harris was not at all responsible. I in fact have said on more than one occasion that as PBO he is responsible whether it’s his actual fault or not. I also don’t know where you got the idea I have "undying faith" in him, unless you’re just trolling, in which case, OK. OK, we'll call it a troll then. 😀 You did criticize the Candelario move! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 minute ago, Hongbit said: I think his head not being in a good place at the time and him not wanting to jump into the pressure cooker of the Dodgers in a pennant race also seems very believable. It’s all speculation and we will never know. What doesn’t make sense was the earlier assertion that ERod would’ve gone to the Dodgers if he was paid more money and that somehow fell on Scott Harris to make happen. Not sure how that would be the Tigers responsibility as the team trading an expiring contract. He has already won a championship in Boston where the media and fans criticize every move you make, so I doubt he was worried about the pressure of a pennant race. It sucks that the Tigers couldn't make the deal, but it's difficult for me to blame an employee for making a personal choice when an employer is trying to move him across the county. I don't really blame Harris either, but he is really the only one I can hold responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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