2024 Trade Deadline Rumors and Discussion

[LongLiveMaroth]

Is this too early to be talking about this? Probably but I figured I would get this started after reading through The Athletic's piece around it. Pulling out the Tigers-related updates they are ; 

"The best starting pitchers expected to be traded at the deadline are Jesús Luzardo of the Marlins, Luis Severino of the Mets, Tyler Anderson of the Angels, Erick Fedde and Garrett Crochet of the White Sox, Jack Flaherty of the Tigers and Trevor Williams of the Nationals if he’s healthy and pitching well. (Williams is on the injured list with a flexor muscle strain after posting a 2.22 ERA over 11 starts.) However, asking prices are exorbitant for most of them and rightfully so because the market for difference-making starters is so thin."

"The Tigers won’t trade Tarik Skubal but they’ll listen on Jack Flaherty, who is having a strong season with Detroit. Flaherty (3.22 ERA, 11.64 strikeouts per nine innings) could bring back a haul."

Extrapolating all of that here are the teams looking for starting pitching. Padres, St. Louis, Guardians, Milwaukee, Arizona.

Cubs are looking for offensive help at catcher and lots of teams are looking for relief help and corner bats. 
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5553919/2024/06/11/mlb-trade-deadline-rumors-50-days-out/ 

All of this should probably be taken with a grain of salt with Bowden as the writer.

[RatkoVarda]

Flaherty's career as an Ace in STL was derailed by numerous injuries. Let's see how his back holds up over the next 7 weeks.

 

[Tigermojo]

Sounds like teams need the types of players the Tigers have entering free agency. Flaherty, Kelly, Urshela and Canha.

[Tenacious D]

I don’t see Canha or Ushela commanding much, if at all, but Kelly and Flaherty would be upgrades for some teams.  Would be nice to re-engage with the Dodgers.

[tiger2022]

I would guess Flaherty is the only one that would return anything at all worth trading for.  

Next year, the Tigers are going to be asking a king's ransom for Skubal.  Wonder when they will start shopping him.

Edited June 11 by tiger2022

[LongLiveMaroth]

On 6/11/2024 at 1:25 PM, Tenacious D said:

I don’t see Canha or Ushela commanding much, if at all, but Kelly and Flaherty would be upgrades for some teams.  Would be nice to re-engage with the Dodgers.

I was thinking similarly, they have 2 catching prospects in Rushing and Cartaya and nowhere to put them with Will Smith as their main C. Cartaya was seen as a great prospect but hasn't been able to hit in AA but he is still just 22. Rushing would be nice but I don't think we would get him for Flaherty.

[Toddwert]

29 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

I was thinking similarly, they have 2 catching prospects in Rushing and Cartaya and nowhere to put them with Will Smith as their main C. Cartaya was seen as a great prospect but hasn't been able to hit in AA but he is still just 22. Rushing would be nice but I don't think we would get him for Flaherty.

I think Rushing was the guy we were getting for Erod

[LongLiveMaroth]

Just now, Toddwert said:

I think Rushing was the guy we were getting for Erod

Agreed, I saw him in Midland last year a handful of times. Not sure he stays behind the plate but the power is there for sure.

[1984Echoes]

He also plays 1B I believe.

Options.

Hinch and Harris love those flexible position options...

[alex]

16 hours ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

I was thinking similarly, they have 2 catching prospects in Rushing and Cartaya and nowhere to put them with Will Smith as their main C. Cartaya was seen as a great prospect but hasn't been able to hit in AA but he is still just 22. Rushing would be nice but I don't think we would get him for Flaherty.

True.

Yet, IF Rushing is a guy they really like (LHB, C-1B, blocked in LA by star players) and they are entertaining trading Flaherty (if healthy at the time, the LAD have interest and we do not plan on re-signing him, even to a shorter AAV deal, etc.) then you come up with a package to get Rushing that includes Flaherty. This is what I have been talking about.  The ability to add a prospect (NOT top 5) and make some kind of package deal ex 2 for 2, etc.

I have been saying all along and hoping our FO (SHarris & JGreenberg) have the ability to identify, then 'negotiate' theses type of deals, til they get the/a guy they like. A good FO organization has the ability to do this. The above is just an example.

[LongLiveMaroth]

So both the Dodgers and Orioles had some pitching injuries over the weekend with Yamamoto and Grove being pushed to the IL and Yamamoto having a strained rotator cuff will be out longer than Grove and the Orioles had Bradish go on the IL for a UCL sprain so they may be looking to upgrade at the deadline even more so than before. 

[RatkoVarda]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/a-change-of-scenery-has-worked-well-for-jack-flaherty/

Flaherty, on the other hand, could be viewed as a rental whose value they’ve quickly restored; if he netted three prospects in the 35-40 FV range last summer when he was scuffling, the return for the Tigers ought to be more substantial while he’s pitching well, and he could very well wind up as the top starter available. On the other hand, given how well he’s meshed with Detroit’s coaches, perhaps he’s open to an extension.

[Motor City Sonics]

Oh, what's it matter, we're gonna suck forever. 

[SoCalTiger]

We can trade Flahtery and sign him next winter. It’s a rare thing but possible. 

[RatkoVarda]

C - Rogers and Kelly are both elite defenders, and Kelly is somehow league average at the plate. Dingler is having his best season and if he is a successful ML player, he would look just like them. Cubs, Padres have awful Cs so maybe there's a deal to be done.

Canha - some value here; I assume they can get more than Holub in return

Urshela - like Canha but a whole lot less

Flaherty - like He-who-will-not-be-named, Harris again has the #1 short term pitcher to trade. Don't eff it up.

Foley - sure why not?

it's not working, so everything and everybody should be considered, no matter how much risk it is

[Tenacious D]

We should be buyers and sellers.  Guys at the major league level include Flaherty, Canha, Kelly and Foley.  I’d also be willing to move Jung and most other minor leaguers not named Clark or McGonigle to teams looking to shed payroll.  We have no business trading for stopgaps or anyone with a contract expiring—They would need to be part of our future.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

We should be buyers and sellers.  Guys at the major league level include Flaherty, Canha, Kelly and Foley.  I’d also be willing to move Jung and most other minor leaguers not named Clark or McGonigle to teams looking to shed payroll.  We have no business trading for stopgaps or anyone with a contract expiring—They would need to be part of our future.

I agree with this except the part about being buyers and sellers. I don't think we can deal Flaherty and then buy around him to compete this year. If we're going to make the playoffs, we need Flaherty in the rotation. Seling our best hitters in Canha and/or Kelly and/or Urshela and/or Foley won't make up the difference for us.

I think we're selling, and at minimum, it's Flaherty for a near-major-league-ready stick. The other three guys might get us some decent depth pieces or lotto tickets, although let's see if Harris can pull of a Lorenzen- or Soto-type return.

[1984Echoes]

I would rather:

Extend Flaherty 2 or 3 years. He and Skubal and Olson are the basis for a competent rotation for the next 2+ years. We have no one else ready to step in this year or next to take one of their places. I don't mind sifting through guys (Mize/ Manning/ Madden/ Montero... hmmm... I'm feeling a sudden urge for M&M's for some reason...) in the 4th and 5th spot. But 1-2-3, I want talented, reliable pitchers. That's Skubal-Flaherty-Olson, for now. Until someone pushes into the top 3 (Jobe is more than a year away, on a WAG?), then those 3 guys anchor the rotation. If someone DOES push into the top 3... awesome.

I'm of a mind that, if we're going to look like ****, because of all these kids... well, then let's just look like **** with all these kids. As soon as is humanly possible, call up Jung, Meadows, Dingler, Tork (if he can get back on track)... hell, even Vilade. He's only 25 and can play 1st. Get it over with. Whatever struggles these guys are going to have trying to acclimate to MLB... have at it. Let them all flop around and struggle and try to figure out MLB pitching. They either swim... or sink. Maybe even call up Lee in September if he warrants. I think he can actually FIELD 2B. Keith & Jung &  others can figure out their spots later, if Lee actually comes up and STEALS 2B from them.

Do. 

It.

Now.

Or at least as soon as the Org deems them ready... but I'm giving them a serious push.

If we lose lots of games the rest of the year... does that change anyone's expectations from where we are... right now?

Hand it over to the kids and let them swim, or sink. IMO.

That means trade: Urshela, Kelly, probably Canha.

PS: I hold onto bullpen guys because no one is outstanding enough to get anything but low-level crap, IMO. And therefore, just let them come back next year and fight it out for a bullpen spot. Get more bullpen competition, and hope a better bullpen can, somehow, be constructed. With, or without the current guys.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

We should be buyers and sellers.  Guys at the major league level include Flaherty, Canha, Kelly and Foley.  I’d also be willing to move Jung and most other minor leaguers not named Clark or McGonigle to teams looking to shed payroll.  We have no business trading for stopgaps or anyone with a contract expiring—They would need to be part of our future.

PS: To this point: I would be sellers at this trade deadline. 

There mostly is never good guys (with team control) moved at the deadline, so the buying part has to wait until the offseason, IMO. 

Which is why I want all the kids called up ASAP. I want to see SOME kind of MLB track record with each and every one of these kids in order to have SOME idea of their MLB value. I don't agree that their value all evaporates once exposed to MLB... from the Tigers perspective. It's better for OUR team to understand each of these guys' MLB strengths and weaknesses because Harris has to be able to assess their worth to our own team first. IMO.

I don't want to trade Paredes away because we have absolutely no clue what his MLB value is. The team better assess his performance in MLB, and correctly, IMO.

I'm mentioning Paredes, already traded, but that goes for every minor league kid I mentioned above.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

On 6/19/2024 at 10:12 AM, RatkoVarda said:

C - Rogers and Kelly are both elite defenders, and Kelly is somehow league average at the plate. Dingler is having his best season and if he is a successful ML player, he would look just like them. Cubs, Padres have awful Cs so maybe there's a deal to be done.

Canha - some value here; I assume they can get more than Holub in return

Urshela - like Canha but a whole lot less

Flaherty - like He-who-will-not-be-named, Harris again has the #1 short term pitcher to trade. Don't eff it up.

Foley - sure why not?

it's not working, so everything and everybody should be considered, no matter how much risk it is

This is basically dead on. Everyone on our roster should be on the table right now. Including Greene and Skubal. The Tigers are in no mans land and even with the farm system they have, they lack "ELITE" prospects barring Clark and Jobe. If the Tigers can trade Greene and/or Skubal and the return for either is two top 25 prospects plus two other top 100 prospects (or at least another top 100 prospect and someone semi decent), they need to seriously consider that. No one on this roster should be untouchable. Skubal is an Ace in this league. Those don't grow on trees which I can understand keeping him. But barring him, no one is a superstar. Greene is a first division regular but he's not on the superstar level. We need to get out of no mans land and it involves getting higher end prospects.

If the O's offered me Basallo, Mayo, Cowser and either Povich or Norby for SKubal, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Or if they did Holliday, Mayo,Cowser and Povich for Skubal and McGonical. THOSE are the types of deals they need to make. Heck Corbin Burnes got two premium prospects and a 1st round pick for him.... Skubal's price should be ASTRONOMICAL. NOW is when they should cash it. 

Those are the types of deals that set up franchises for success. Gets us out of the no mans land we are in.

[Tigermojo]

26 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

This is basically dead on. Everyone on our roster should be on the table right now. Including Greene and Skubal. The Tigers are in no mans land and even with the farm system they have, they lack "ELITE" prospects barring Clark and Jobe. If the Tigers can trade Greene and/or Skubal and the return for either is two top 25 prospects plus two other top 100 prospects (or at least another top 100 prospect and someone semi decent), they need to seriously consider that. No one on this roster should be untouchable. Skubal is an Ace in this league. Those don't grow on trees which I can understand keeping him. But barring him, no one is a superstar. Greene is a first division regular but he's not on the superstar level. We need to get out of no mans land and it involves getting higher end prospects.

If the O's offered me Basallo, Mayo, Cowser and either Povich or Norby for SKubal, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Or if they did Holliday, Mayo,Cowser and Povich for Skubal and McGonical. THOSE are the types of deals they need to make. Heck Corbin Burnes got two premium prospects and a 1st round pick for him.... Skubal's price should be ASTRONOMICAL. NOW is when they should cash it. 

Those are the types of deals that set up franchises for success. Gets us out of the no mans land we are in.

I wouldn't trade Greene because he's still here four more years. I would be ok with trading Skubal before his arm falls off.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

35 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

I wouldn't trade Greene because he's still here four more years. I would be ok with trading Skubal before his arm falls off.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

K the reply isn't working properly.

But sticking with the O's for comparison sake.... If they offered Holiday and lets say Cowswer for Greene, you'd say no to that?

[Tigermojo]

15 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

K the reply isn't working properly.

But sticking with the O's for comparison sake.... If they offered Holiday and lets say Cowswer for Greene, you'd say no to that?

Sure but why would they do that? Cowser has been as valuable as Greene so far this year.

[Longgone]

2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

I would rather:

Extend Flaherty 2 or 3 years. He and Skubal and Olson are the basis for a competent rotation for the next 2+ years. We have no one else ready to step in this year or next to take one of their places. I don't mind sifting through guys (Mize/ Manning/ Madden/ Montero... hmmm... I'm feeling a sudden urge for M&M's for some reason...) in the 4th and 5th spot. But 1-2-3, I want talented, reliable pitchers. That's Skubal-Flaherty-Olson, for now. Until someone pushes into the top 3 (Jobe is more than a year away, on a WAG?), then those 3 guys anchor the rotation. If someone DOES push into the top 3... awesome.

I'm of a mind that, if we're going to look like ****, because of all these kids... well, then let's just look like **** with all these kids. As soon as is humanly possible, call up Jung, Meadows, Dingler, Tork (if he can get back on track)... hell, even Vilade. He's only 25 and can play 1st. Get it over with. Whatever struggles these guys are going to have trying to acclimate to MLB... have at it. Let them all flop around and struggle and try to figure out MLB pitching. They either swim... or sink. Maybe even call up Lee in September if he warrants. I think he can actually FIELD 2B. Keith & Jung &  others can figure out their spots later, if Lee actually comes up and STEALS 2B from them.

Do. 

It.

Now.

Or at least as soon as the Org deems them ready... but I'm giving them a serious push.

If we lose lots of games the rest of the year... does that change anyone's expectations from where we are... right now?

Hand it over to the kids and let them swim, or sink. IMO.

That means trade: Urshela, Kelly, probably Canha.

PS: I hold onto bullpen guys because no one is outstanding enough to get anything but low-level crap, IMO. And therefore, just let them come back next year and fight it out for a bullpen spot. Get more bullpen competition, and hope a better bullpen can, somehow, be constructed. With, or without the current guys.

You don’t push players up to see if they can compete, or “let them sink or swim”. You know at each stage what their flaws and strengths and weaknesses are, you don’t use stats to justify a move, leave them at an appropriate level until they acquire enough skills to compete. At some point they will be ready and will require the challenge, but there is no point in rushing it.