Edman85 Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: I would rather: Extend Flaherty 2 or 3 years. He and Skubal and Olson are the basis for a competent rotation for the next 2+ years. We have no one else ready to step in this year or next to take one of their places. I don't mind sifting through guys (Mize/ Manning/ Madden/ Montero... hmmm... I'm feeling a sudden urge for M&M's for some reason...) in the 4th and 5th spot. But 1-2-3, I want talented, reliable pitchers. That's Skubal-Flaherty-Olson, for now. Until someone pushes into the top 3 (Jobe is more than a year away, on a WAG?), then those 3 guys anchor the rotation. If someone DOES push into the top 3... awesome. What if he wants 5/$150M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 3 hours ago, chasfh said: I agree with this except the part about being buyers and sellers. I don't think we can deal Flaherty and then buy around him to compete this year. If we're going to make the playoffs, we need Flaherty in the rotation. Seling our best hitters in Canha and/or Kelly and/or Urshela and/or Foley won't make up the difference for us. I think we're selling, and at minimum, it's Flaherty for a near-major-league-ready stick. The other three guys might get us some decent depth pieces or lotto tickets, although let's see if Harris can pull of a Lorenzen- or Soto-type return. I was coming at from the belief that this is not a playoff team. Nor remotely close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: What if he wants 5/$150M? The only pitchers making more than $30M/yr are Ohtani, Scherzer, JV, Cole & deGrom. That I know of. So what you're telling me is that Flaherty is worth more than every other pitcher in MLB except those 5? With his injury history? And his stated desire of being with Detroit's pitching coaches? Show me where he's made demands for 5 years $150 mill. Otherwise, and this is only my belief: he'll be more moderate than that, and will have a desire to stay in Detroit. The bigger question is: does Harris want him here? Or does he see him as a trade opportunity that he can't pass up? I don't think there are unreasonable contract demands that will be a stumbling block. I think it's simply a matter of what is inside Harris's head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 56 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: The only pitchers making more than $30M/yr are Ohtani, Scherzer, JV, Cole & deGrom. That I know of. So what you're telling me is that Flaherty is worth more than every other pitcher in MLB except those 5? With his injury history? And his stated desire of being with Detroit's pitching coaches? Show me where he's made demands for 5 years $150 mill. Otherwise, and this is only my belief: he'll be more moderate than that, and will have a desire to stay in Detroit. The bigger question is: does Harris want him here? Or does he see him as a trade opportunity that he can't pass up? I don't think there are unreasonable contract demands that will be a stumbling block. I think it's simply a matter of what is inside Harris's head. I can’t believe I’m defending Edman, but I think he threw that out there as an example where Flaherty could demand stupid money, not necessarily 5/$150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 I don't know why I'm engaging here, but here goes. I never said he was asking for that, but to me the burden of proof falls on the person who claims he can just be rubber stamp signed to a 2-3 year extension after the year he's having without him testing the market. As @oblong always says, you aren't going to the grocery store and shopping in the pitcher aisle. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanTigersFan Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Flaherty will get 20 mil/year or like 22 million per year.... so 4 at 88 or something like that. TOPS would be 4 /100 mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Based on what we’re seeing this season, and his early career success, he will get paid. I’d predict something around $20-23M/yr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 2 hours ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: Flaherty will get 20 mil/year or like 22 million per year.... so 4 at 88 or something like that. TOPS would be 4 /100 mil. this is probably correct, unless someone offers him more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 8 hours ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: This is basically dead on. Everyone on our roster should be on the table right now. Including Greene and Skubal. The Tigers are in no mans land and even with the farm system they have, they lack "ELITE" prospects barring Clark and Jobe. If the Tigers can trade Greene and/or Skubal and the return for either is two top 25 prospects plus two other top 100 prospects (or at least another top 100 prospect and someone semi decent), they need to seriously consider that. No one on this roster should be untouchable. Skubal is an Ace in this league. Those don't grow on trees which I can understand keeping him. But barring him, no one is a superstar. Greene is a first division regular but he's not on the superstar level. We need to get out of no mans land and it involves getting higher end prospects. If the O's offered me Basallo, Mayo, Cowser and either Povich or Norby for SKubal, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Or if they did Holliday, Mayo,Cowser and Povich for Skubal and McGonical. THOSE are the types of deals they need to make. Heck Corbin Burnes got two premium prospects and a 1st round pick for him.... Skubal's price should be ASTRONOMICAL. NOW is when they should cash it. Those are the types of deals that set up franchises for success. Gets us out of the no mans land we are in. I have been floating Skuball + for Jackson Holiday and Coby Mayo for some time now. Both are blocked in Baltimore and the new owner might overrule Elias for push. Heck I would add Flahtery for those two and rebuilding the left side of our infield. I am not trading Greene. He is becoming a star. Solid in left, runs well, decent power and good hitter. once his K's go down he could live in the .850 OPS land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 8 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: I would rather: Extend Flaherty 2 or 3 years. He and Skubal and Olson are the basis for a competent rotation for the next 2+ years. We have no one else ready to step in this year or next to take one of their places. I don't mind sifting through guys (Mize/ Manning/ Madden/ Montero... hmmm... I'm feeling a sudden urge for M&M's for some reason...) in the 4th and 5th spot. But 1-2-3, I want talented, reliable pitchers. That's Skubal-Flaherty-Olson, for now. Until someone pushes into the top 3 (Jobe is more than a year away, on a WAG?), then those 3 guys anchor the rotation. If someone DOES push into the top 3... awesome. I'm of a mind that, if we're going to look like ****, because of all these kids... well, then let's just look like **** with all these kids. As soon as is humanly possible, call up Jung, Meadows, Dingler, Tork (if he can get back on track)... hell, even Vilade. He's only 25 and can play 1st. Get it over with. Whatever struggles these guys are going to have trying to acclimate to MLB... have at it. Let them all flop around and struggle and try to figure out MLB pitching. They either swim... or sink. Maybe even call up Lee in September if he warrants. I think he can actually FIELD 2B. Keith & Jung & others can figure out their spots later, if Lee actually comes up and STEALS 2B from them. Do. It. Now. Or at least as soon as the Org deems them ready... but I'm giving them a serious push. If we lose lots of games the rest of the year... does that change anyone's expectations from where we are... right now? Hand it over to the kids and let them swim, or sink. IMO. That means trade: Urshela, Kelly, probably Canha. PS: I hold onto bullpen guys because no one is outstanding enough to get anything but low-level crap, IMO. And therefore, just let them come back next year and fight it out for a bullpen spot. Get more bullpen competition, and hope a better bullpen can, somehow, be constructed. With, or without the current guys. I think captain Jack is on pace for 5 to 6 years/ 140 to 150. I would trade him for sure. As for the kids I agree let's not trade Parades but I wouldn't promote anybody this year except for a September taste apart from Dingler if we trade Kelly. We're promoting too fast and it is now known that the jump from AAA it Comerica is very big. In fact I would send Keith and Malloy back to AAA and I would get Keith some reps at First Base as uncomfortable as it may be with Tork there. At lease allow Keith and Jung to work on their defense in the minors. Avila brought up Tork too soon and Harris did the same with Keith. Make them ripe before picking the vine. I would like to see Ibanez play second base everyday and try Holten in the starting rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) How was Keith not ripe? He had a monster full season in Toledo in 2023. He was so good that the front office was criticized for not promoting him. The truth is is that the jump from the minors to MLB is massive for some players and many will not make that transition. Or they will take their lumps for an extended period. I don’t know how it is that other organizations are able to promote their hitters and they have successful rookie seasons. That seems to avoid us (and I don’t think it is because we rushed anyone, including Tork). Edited June 21 by Tenacious D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 10 hours ago, Edman85 said: ... the burden of proof falls on the person who claims he can just be rubber stamp signed to a 2-3 year extension after... Where did I say that? Please provide quotes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 my guess is the salary required to sign Flaherty will be palatable to Harris, but the years will not be - that is where the risk is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 23 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: my guess is the salary required to sign Flaherty will be palatable to Harris, but the years will not be - that is where the risk is Agreed. Maybe a bit of a compromise based on innings, then a year is added. ex 2 years and 3rd yr option if x amount of innings. I think GMs are wising up to signing SPs too long. Most of the time this just backfires and teams are left with restricting contracts. Just this past year NSnell and JMontgomery were left out and ultimately got short term deals with higher AAV. They are/were both SBoras clients as well. Maybe they try to extend Flaherty, if they cannot then a trade? A good SP staff may still be the best way to compete. They simply would have to add bats from now til the beginning of next year. Of course as I/we said/know, a good FO is ALWAYS looking to add talent - no matter what time of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Flaherty will hit free agency at 29, and if stays healthy, will be coming off a 5+ WAR platform season. He would be seeking a 5-6 year deal for sure. Will he get it? I have no idea. But 2-3 years seems like a management pipe dream. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlington Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 As for cost, remember that the Tigers are paying him $14 this year. Going into the $20s is not that far off. I would be all for signing Flaherty at the market rate if he's willing. Would love to see him in the rotation next year. The Tigers can absorb the risk. But it should be done soon. Why the wait until the trading deadline? Four months left in the season. Two at the trading deadline. It would behoove someone like Baltimore who has minor league talent to swoop in and make an offer that can't be refused, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 36 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: Flaherty will hit free agency at 29, and if stays healthy, will be coming off a 5+ WAR platform season. He would be seeking a 5-6 year deal for sure. Will he get it? I have no idea. But 2-3 years seems like a management pipe dream. If he hits the all star break as is, he's certainly closer to 5 years than he is 2-3 years. Good for him to rebound, good for the Tigers to have snagged him this past offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 I would deal Flaherty to the Orioles for Basallo or Mayo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Baltimore already traded for Flaherty last year and he sucked so bad they put him in the BP. I do not see them trading high end talent for just 3 months of any pitcher, and certainty not Jack. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 9 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: Baltimore already traded for Flaherty last year and he sucked so bad they put him in the BP. I do not see them trading high end talent for just 3 months of any pitcher, and certainty not Jack. I completely forgot he pitched there last year..oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 It is time for a little reality here. One needs to look around in the entire organization and ask who do you see contributing to a playoff team in 2027 or 2028. Everyone else is yesterday's news and needs to be traded, if reasonable value can be found. The only player who might be here when the Tigers are playoff competitive again is Winceel Perez. Everyone else is probably dead man walking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishpack Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 10 hours ago, SoCalTiger said: I have been floating Skuball + for Jackson Holiday and Coby Mayo for some time now. Both are blocked in Baltimore and the new owner might overrule Elias for push. Heck I would add Flahtery for those two and rebuilding the left side of our infield. I am not trading Greene. He is becoming a star. Solid in left, runs well, decent power and good hitter. once his K's go down he could live in the .850 OPS land. Close, Holiday and Basallo and two lower lottery picks, they some 18-20 years olds who are intrigueing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 3 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Where did I say that? Please provide quotes: Already did quote it. A quick mention of extending him 2-3 years, to me, implies what I took it as. Again, not sure why I am bothering getting dragged into a bad faith argument. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 waitin to see that he didnt say rubber stamp...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 34 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said: It is time for a little reality here. One needs to look around in the entire organization and ask who do you see contributing to a playoff team in 2027 or 2028. Everyone else is yesterday's news and needs to be traded, if reasonable value can be found. The only player who might be here when the Tigers are playoff competitive again is Winceel Perez. Everyone else is probably dead man walking Riley Greene is only 23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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