chasfh Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I get that you have decided that Avila can not get any credit for any successes from players currently on the team and that any player that succeeds will be because of something Harris did. You may or may not have phrased it this way to make my evaluation of Avila’s tenure and legacy seem unreasonable, but I will cop to it as being a reasonable position to take. Avila was fired not only because he’d been failing for years on end, but because it was obvious even to the guy who didn’t want to see it that Avila had no idea how to stop failing. And even if any of Avila’s players do stay here and succeed, I will definitely give the Harris team credit for saving them and making them useful to the team, versus giving the blind squirrel equal credit for leaving Harris the nut in the first place. In any event, there won’t be more than a handful of those guys here in a couple years anyway. 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: However, Randy Smith was horrible. The only thing that saved him was Gonzalez not wanting anything to do with Detroit and refusing that stupid contract. Randy Smith was indeed horrible, although I’m not so sure Juan turning him down saved him, because he was gone barely a year later. Remember this? Randy tried to trade Juan at the 2000 deadline to the Yankees for Ricky Ledee and Drew Henson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 2 hours ago, LongLiveMaroth said: If Baltimore comes to you and says hey we are willing to trade you Basallo, Mayo, and a couple of others off of their non-top 100 prospects which addresses your future at Catcher and 3rd Base and some possible other fliers. I would be hard-pressed to pass that up. Sure, we could construct a bunch of lopsided trades with a bunch of teams that we’d be hard-pressed to pass up but which will never be offered. It’s not realistic but it’s fun, and Skubal will still be here on August 1, and to start 2025. BTW, Coby Mayo is minutes away from being called up to the Orioles to take third base from Ramon Urias, and he’s probably going to end up at first anyway, and we already have a bunch of those players in our system right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: You can trade Skubal but it has to be for established young MLB players. There is *no* prospect plate that returns equal value for a likely Cy Young winner. None. I would also argue the idea that a pitcher is less valuable because his doesn't play everyday. A good starting pitcher affects the games he is in with a very high total percentage impact on the outcome.. He has far more than 5x effect the effect of a hitter has in the games he appears, so he affects win totals just as much or more. Not only that, but for teams serious about winning in October, having four guys in your rotation who can shut down any other team is the holy grail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 Another point that Cody made on his pod is that Flaherty is eligible for a qualifying offer after this season, so we’re not obligated to accept a trade offer that we’re not excited about. We can offer him a one year deal for ~20M—if he accepts, we have him for another season which would be a good outcome. And if he declines and signs elsewhere, we’d get a draft pick. Nice to have options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 8 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: And if he declines and signs elsewhere, we’d get a draft pick. the return on that is 5 years out (2030!) and with a low probability of actually hitting on a ML player. yes, something is better than nothing, but that would not be a good result IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 1 minute ago, RatkoVarda said: the return on that is 5 years out (2030!) and with a low probability of actually hitting on a ML player. yes, something is better than nothing, but that would not be a good result IMO I’d prefer the player(s) in a trade, but at least we’re not forced into settling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedTeamGo! Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 4 hours ago, buddha said: matt anderson was a god awful pick. no denying that. i waa actually surprised that tork has been that bad to even compare to anderson. Have you taken a look at the 2020 draft recently? Tork has been bad so far, but every team in baseball takes him with the number 1 pick that year. That was the COVID draft, teams were basically flying blind because there was little to no scouting going on. They were going off old data from the previous season, and Tork was looking like a sure thing based on what he did in 2019. With hindsight being 20/20 who do you take with the number 1 pick that draft? Garrett Crochet, I guess? There’s no way anyone would have taken him with the number 1 pick that year. No way. I think Avila stunk, but using Tork’s career bWAR as evidence is kind of silly IMHO. There’s plenty of other ammo for that particular argument. The 2020 draft is so weird to me, the reds took a kid with the 12th pick that had tons of power and now in 2024 he’s stuck in AA with a .600 OPS. At least Tork will have a major league career, ha. with all that said, I’m hoping the Reds are the team the Tigers trade Tork to. I could see him hitting 40 bombs in GABP. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 5 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: You can trade Skubal but it has to be for established young MLB players. That scenario isn't going to happen because a team trying to win a WS isn't going to trade away established mlb players because those players are probably playing a big role on the roster. That is why most of the trades are for prospects that really don't matter for the other team in their run for the WS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 11 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: That scenario isn't going to happen because a team trying to win a WS isn't going to trade away established mlb players because those players are probably playing a big role on the roster. That is why most of the trades are for prospects that really don't matter for the other team in their run for the WS. ergo: trading Skubal is a loser for the Tigers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Randy Smith or Al Avila? Poke in the eye or kick in the nuts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: ergo: trading Skubal is a loser for the Tigers. I wouldn't be surprised if they trade him in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 54 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: I wouldn't be surprised if they trade him in the offseason. If you’re going to trade him, at the deadline is when you should do it. More competition and urgency for his services. I really don’t see him going, though—highly doubt they would trade both him and Flaherty in season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 If we were to trade Skubal this deadline, the Tigers might as well run ads telling people to stay home for the next couple of years, because there will be nothing to see and dream on. And make that double if we were to make the choice to trade Skubal and sign Flaherty for a single year, as someone suggested, instead of trading Flaherty and keeping Skubal for 2-1/2 years. Skubal is the one great player on the team and we have him locked up until at least mid-2026. Barring injury, there’s no way he’s not breaking camp with us next March. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 13 hours ago, casimir said: Randy Smith or Al Avila? Poke in the eye or kick in the nuts? If they are considered equally bad, then I'll still go with Avila. Avila at least seemed like a pleasant guy (perhaps being too open) whereas Smith came off as one of those people who seemed smug for no reason at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: If they are considered equally bad, then I'll still go with Avila. Avila at least seemed like a pleasant guy (perhaps being too open) whereas Smith came off as one of those people who seemed smug for no reason at all. and Avila at least seemed to have a plan, if not executed well. Smith was all over the place. Maybe that was Ilitch interfering.. mainly speaking to the Juan Gonzalez trade. You had a semi decent block of younger talent after 1999. At the time I liked some of the players he brought in, like Cedeno and Meluskey. Maybe Ilitch and John McHale were too busy building Comerica Park to really notice what was going on with regard to teh baseball side of operations... or just figured they would sink/swim with it. I don't recall when McHale left the org. Anyone remember? Didn't he leave to work in the Commissioner's Office? Was that a soft firing, enable him to leave with dignity with a cushy job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Randy Smith = Nepo Baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 18 minutes ago, oblong said: and Avila at least seemed to have a plan, if not executed well. Smith was all over the place. Maybe that was Ilitch interfering.. mainly speaking to the Juan Gonzalez trade. You had a semi decent block of younger talent after 1999. At the time I liked some of the players he brought in, like Cedeno and Meluskey. Maybe Ilitch and John McHale were too busy building Comerica Park to really notice what was going on with regard to teh baseball side of operations... or just figured they would sink/swim with it. I don't recall when McHale left the org. Anyone remember? Didn't he leave to work in the Commissioner's Office? Was that a soft firing, enable him to leave with dignity with a cushy job? Wikipedia has McHale leaving during the Summer of 2001 to take a job with Tampa. Dombrowski came in after the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Skubal and Gio to the Orioles for Westburg and Basallo and a middling SP prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 1 hour ago, Shinzaki said: Skubal and Gio to the Orioles for Westburg and Basallo and a middling SP prospect. Looks at calendar to see if its April Fool's Day in June. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Aim high or go home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) 5 hours ago, Shinzaki said: Skubal and Gio to the Orioles for Westburg and Basallo and a middling SP prospect. Teams going to the playoffs do not trade a big part of their offense. Why would they trade Westburg, who is a rookie and playing at an all star level? Just making up silly trades is well ..silly. might as well throw Henderson and Rutschman in the trade for Baez and Rogers too Edited June 27 by tiger2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 I guess Im trying to convey the notion that it will take an established mlb player plus to land Skubal or no deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 1 hour ago, Shinzaki said: I guess Im trying to convey the notion that it will take an established mlb player plus to land Skubal or no deal. To me it just depends upon the entirety of the deal. If there’s a top tier prospect in AAA ready to promote, I think that could work in lieu of an established player. I would prefer prospects that are closer to their MLB debuts. I don’t want a trio of guys in A and high A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 3 hours ago, Shinzaki said: Aim high or go home Gleyber Torres or bust! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 It's hard to say don't trade Player X without knowing the return. Also sometimes just let the player play out and take the draft pick. maybe not for Captain Jack since this year is lost but keep Skubal for the next two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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