2024 Trade Deadline Rumors and Discussion

[tiger2022]

So many delusional trade scenarios.  Not trying to be a downer, so go ahead and continue to suggest the super one sided trades for the tigers.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, tiger2022 said:

So many delusional trade scenarios.  Not trying to be a downer, so go ahead and continue to suggest the super one sided trades for the tigers.

Trade Deadline 1998:

Randy Johnson (struggling in '98 w/ a 4.33 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, and only 2 months before free agency) traded for Freddy Garcia (34.2 career WAR), Carlos Guillen (27.7 career WAR), John Halama (5.6 career WAR).

Trade Deadline 2008:

C.C Sabathia (2 months & then a FA) traded for Michael Brantley (34.3 career WAR), Matt LaPorta (-1 WAR), Zach Jackson (-1 WAR), Rob Bryson (0 WAR).

Trade Deadline 2016:

Aroldis Chapman (traded to the Cubs by the Yanks for 2 months & then a FA... and Yankees signed him as FA!) traded for Gleyber Torres (14.4 career WAR), Billy McKinney (0 WAR), Adam Warren (6.6 career WAR), Rashad Crawford (0 WAR).

Trade Deadline 2002:

Bartolo Colon (2 months & then a FA) traded for Grady Sizemore (27.8 career WAR), Cliff Lee (43.2 career WAR), Brandon Phillips (28.4 career WAR).

 

TWO YEARS + 2 months of Skubal is worth SIGNIFICANTLY more than any of the two month rentals above.

You don't know what you're talking about.

[tiger2022]

16 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Trade Deadline 1998:

Randy Johnson (struggling in '98 w/ a 4.33 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, and only 2 months before free agency) traded for Freddy Garcia (34.2 career WAR), Carlos Guillen (27.7 career WAR), John Halama (5.6 career WAR).

Trade Deadline 2008:

C.C Sabathia (2 months & then a FA) traded for Michael Brantley (34.3 career WAR), Matt LaPorta (-1 WAR), Zach Jackson (-1 WAR), Rob Bryson (0 WAR).

Trade Deadline 2016:

Aroldis Chapman (traded to the Cubs by the Yanks for 2 months & then a FA... and Yankees signed him as FA!) traded for Gleyber Torres (14.4 career WAR), Billy McKinney (0 WAR), Adam Warren (6.6 career WAR), Rashad Crawford (0 WAR).

Trade Deadline 2002:

Bartolo Colon (2 months & then a FA) traded for Grady Sizemore (27.8 career WAR), Cliff Lee (43.2 career WAR), Brandon Phillips (28.4 career WAR).

 

TWO YEARS + 2 months of Skubal is worth SIGNIFICANTLY more than any of the two month rentals above.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Chill out.  None of those guys were even remotely close to the #1 prospect in baseball.

Your post doesn't even address what I said.  Just go back to pretending like you know everything and keep making up silly trades that are have a zero percent chance of happening.  

I don't care if you respond because I am not going to read it anyway.  

Edited June 28 by tiger2022

[tiger2022]

Yay

Edited June 28 by tiger2022

[LongLiveMaroth]

2 hours ago, theroundsquare said:

I don't think the Yanks would make that deal for a couple months of Jack F.

I don't disagree but this was from Yankee beat writers so it's not like they had a bias to load it to the Tigers side.

[alex]

3 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

I don't disagree but this was from Yankee beat writers so it's not like they had a bias to load it to the Tigers side.

Just saying, 'IF' this something like the Tigers might seek, this is where adding a prospect (again NOT top 5) might help out.

[LongLiveMaroth]

11 hours ago, alex said:

Just saying, 'IF' this something like the Tigers might seek, this is where adding a prospect (again NOT top 5) might help out.

Agreed, throwing in a Troy Melton or Brant Hurter to help get the deal across would make a lot of sense. 

[Edman85]

Avila vs. Smith is apples and oranges. The job is so different now than it was 25 years ago. The growth of front offices means you have gone from sole decision maker to manager of people.

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Avila vs. Smith is apples and oranges. The job is so different now than it was 25 years ago. The growth of front offices means you have gone from sole decision maker to manager of people.

It's the same thing as players.  Everything was different a long time ago.  You can compare Avila to his contemporaries and Smith to his contemporaries and decide which one was worse.  What I see was that Avila and his team had a plan, but were bad at executing it.  Smith didn't even seem to have a plan.  Regardless, the Tigers did very poorly under both of them.  I hope they do better under Harris.  They couldn't do much worse.  

[buddha]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:43 PM, chasfh said:

Gleyber Torres or bust!

remember when it was a debate as to whether matt boyd was better than gleyber torres?

torres: 14.5 war

boyd: 9.2 war

[buddha]

23 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It's the same thing as players.  Everything was different a long time ago.  You can compare Avila to his contemporaries and Smith to his contemporaries and decide which one was worse.  What I see was that Avila and his team had a plan, but were bad at executing it.  Smith didn't even seem to have a plan.  Regardless, the Tigers did very poorly under both of them.  I hope they do better under Harris.  They couldn't do much worse.  

i think its easier to ascertain a front office's "plan" today because we have more media coverage and more information about what they're doing.

when smith was gm you had news and free press columnists.  now you have so much more.

regardless, both were terrible at executing any type of plan they may have had.

im really confused by the admiration people seem to have for al avila.  is it because he was a nice guy?  he led the organization into its worst suatained period in its 100 year history and people brush it off because he had a "plan"?  it didnt work!  is it because some of the current guys are still young?

forget randy smith for a minute, al avila was bad.  full stop.

[Edman85]

I think it is generous to Avila to say he had a plan. He really seemed to violate Mike Ehrmentraut's rule about no half measures. He paid lip service to analytics, but empowered Dave Littlefield to run player dev for six years.

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, buddha said:

i think its easier to ascertain a front office's "plan" today because we have more media coverage and more information about what they're doing.

when smith was gm you had news and free press columnists.  now you have so much more.

regardless, both were terrible at executing any type of plan they may have had.

im really confused by the admiration people seem to have for al avila.  is it because he was a nice guy?  he led the organization into its worst suatained period in its 100 year history and people brush it off because he had a "plan"?  it didnt work!  is it because some of the current guys are still young?

forget randy smith for a minute, al avila was bad.  full stop.

I  don't think anyone here with the possible exception of Echoes admires Avila.  I think Avila was a poor GM.  It's just that any time someone points out a positive acquisition by Avila - such as Skubal, Greene, Carpenter or Olson - it gets shot down.  It seems that Avila is hated so much that people won't give him credit for the few good players he produced.  It's possible for someone to be terrible at the job, but still do some good things.  

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

I think it is generous to Avila to say he had a plan. He really seemed to violate Mike Ehrmentraut's rule about no half measures. He paid lip service to analytics, but empowered Dave Littlefield to run player dev for six years.

By having a plan, I man he was committed to building from within.  He tore everything down and tried to collect young players and never waivered.  I did not like his plan and he was bad at it, but I saw that he had a plan.  I don't follow the behind the scenes management stuff as much as you do, but I know they were not good at analytics.

Harris and his team appear to be far superior at analytics and that is what I've always wanted from the Tigers.  I am excited about that.  What I don't know is whether they will be good at team building.  My excitement will be tempered until I see evidence that they have that skill.  

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

By having a plan, I man he was committed to building from within.  He tore everything down and tried to collect young players and never waivered (edit: wavered, but it's a funny typo so I'll leave it).  I did not like his plan and he was bad at it, but I saw that he had a plan.  I don't follow the behind the scenes management stuff as much as you do, but I know they were not good at analytics.

Harris and his team appear to be far superior at analytics and that is what I've always wanted from the Tigers.  I am excited about that.  What I don't know is whether they will be good at team building.  My excitement will be tempered until I see evidence that they have that skill.  

 

[1984Echoes]

28 minutes ago, buddha said:

... forget randy smith for a minute, al avila was bad.  full stop.

Al Avila was BAD, full stop.

 

17 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I  don't think anyone here with the possible exception of Echoes admires Avila... 

And even I do NOT admire Avila. That's the wrong word.

 

17 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

...  It's just that any time someone points out a positive acquisition by Avila - such as Skubal, Greene, Carpenter or Olson - it gets shot down.  It seems that Avila is hated so much that people won't give him credit for the few good players he produced.  It's possible for someone to be terrible at the job, but still do some good things.  

THIS is where I'm at.

It's not admiration.

It's frustration that I can't mention any of these guys, or any other under Avila, before a few people scream at me how atrocious Avila was. I can't mention "Avila", in ANY context, where chas won't post that stupid picture of Avila laughing, which is annoying to no end. And/or other posters spew torrents of hatred and whatever else at Avila. It's NOT reasonable, IMO.

Yes, I get that Avila was BAD, full stop.

But...

"It's possible for someone to be terrible at the job, but still do some good things." Full stop.

[Tigermojo]

Sounds like the White Sox are putting Crochet on the market. That would be direct competition for a Skubal package.

[SeattleMike]

1 hour ago, Tigermojo said:

Sounds like the White Sox are putting Crochet on the market. That would be direct competition for a Skubal package.

True. But Crochet doesn’t have a long track record of starting. This will definitely knock Flaherty down a notch or two. 

[Tiger337]

On 6/29/2024 at 7:57 AM, buddha said:

i think its easier to ascertain a front office's "plan" today because we have more media coverage and more information about what they're doing.

when smith was gm you had news and free press columnists.  now you have so much more.

regardless, both were terrible at executing any type of plan they may have had.

im really confused by the admiration people seem to have for al avila.  is it because he was a nice guy?  he led the organization into its worst suatained period in its 100 year history and people brush it off because he had a "plan"?  it didnt work!  is it because some of the current guys are still young?

forget randy smith for a minute, al avila was bad.  full stop.

The Tigers had 12 consecutive years of losing records from 1994-2005.  They have not quite reached that yet.  

 

[chasfh]

On 6/29/2024 at 7:09 AM, Tiger337 said:

I  don't think anyone here with the possible exception of Echoes admires Avila.  I think Avila was a poor GM.  It's just that any time someone points out a positive acquisition by Avila - such as Skubal, Greene, Carpenter or Olson - it gets shot down.  It seems that Avila is hated so much that people won't give him credit for the few good players he produced.  It's possible for someone to be terrible at the job, but still do some good things.  

Riley was the consensus pick at 1/5, so Avila got the guy everyone else would have picked.

Olson seems like a decent pickup although he was a 13th-round pick out of high school with control issues in the low minors who seemed to find himself when the Fetter team got hold of him, traded for a guy who was basically getting run out of town for poor results, so it’s fair to wonder whether he was a blind squirrel pick.

Skubal was picked in the ninth round literally as a favor to Scott Boras, and Carpenter was a late-round guy who got passed over 561 times before we eeny-meeny-miney-moed him, which is why I am loathe to give Avila genius points for picking either.

Call it Avila hate if you want, but if you really want to defend Avila as a competently average picker of players, I think these examples fall short of the mark.

[Tiger337]

15 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Riley was the consensus pick at 1/5, so Avila got the guy everyone else would have picked.

Olson seems like a decent pickup although he was a 13th-round pick out of high school with control issues in the low minors who seemed to find himself when the Fetter team got hold of him, traded for a guy who was basically getting run out of town for poor results, so it’s fair to wonder whether he was a blind squirrel pick.

Skubal was picked in the ninth round literally as a favor to Scott Boras, and Carpenter was a late-round guy who got passed over 561 times before we eeny-meeny-miney-moed him, which is why I am loathe to give Avila genius points for picking either.

Call it Avila hate if you want, but if you really want to defend Avila as a competently average picker of players, I think these examples fall short of the mark.

So, if he gets who everybody else wanted, he gets no credit.  If he get a late round guy who succeeds, he gets no credit.  No matter who he picks, he gets no credit. Chris Fetter was signed under Avila too, but I am retty sure you have already explained why he gets no credit for that. I still say those were all successes for Avila.  He was also a bad GM.  Those two things can happen at the same time.  

Edited July 1 by Tiger337

[chasfh]

40 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

So, if he gets who everybody else wanted, he gets no credit.  If he get a late round guy who succeeds, he gets no credit.  No matter who he picks, he gets no credit. Chris Fetter was signed under Avila too, but I am retty sure you have already explained why he gets no credit for that. I still say those were all successes for Avila.  He was also a bad GM.  Those two things can happen at the same time.  

Avila gets positive credit for not screwing up the Riley Greene pick, the same way he doesn't get the blame for picking Tork 1-1. He took the pick everyone would have taken.

Late round guys are basically dartboard picks for everybody. I don't see how anyone can claim someone is a genius because they laid in wait for a guy they knew was going to rake in the major leagues but who wouldn't get picked until the 19th round. That just doesn't pass the smell test.

The Fetter thing comes out of nowhere, but now that you mention it, it was a good hire by Avila, especially since Fetter coached in the Padres system while the guy who'd just been hired a week earlier as Tigers manager was a scouting VP there.

 

[4hzglory]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Avila gets positive credit for not screwing up the Riley Greene pick, the same way he doesn't get the blame for picking Tork 1-1. He took the pick everyone would have taken.

I don’t remember Greene being a consensus.  I remember we had a relationship with one of his coaches, but IIRC much of the analysis was that he had below average speed and was a poor fielder who was as likely to have to move first as he was even to play left, much less become an above average corner and even solid cf.

Avilla was terrible overall, but seems like when he went against consensus-Greene and Jobe, he actually did reasonably well drafting.

 

[chasfh]

13 minutes ago, 4hzglory said:

I don’t remember Greene being a consensus.  I remember we had a relationship with one of his coaches, but IIRC much of the analysis was that he had below average speed and was a poor fielder who was as likely to have to move first as he was even to play left, much less become an above average corner and even solid cf.

I pulled up a bunch of 2019 mock draft articles, and while to your point it wasn't unanimous, Riley showed up on most of them:

• Baseball America: Riley
• Bleacher Report: Riley
• CBS Sports: Andrew Vaughn ("For weeks the Tigers have been strongly tied to outfielder Riley Greene, the best high school hitter in this draft, but Vaughn slipping would make them shift gears.") The White Sox took Vaughn at #3.
• Perfect Game: Riley
• Fangraphs: Vaughn ("Vaughn or Florida high school OF Riley Greene.")
• The Athletic: Riley
• Callis, MLB Pipeline: Riley
• Mayo, MLB Pipeline: Riley

 

 

[4hzglory]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I pulled up a bunch of 2019 mock draft articles, and while to your point it wasn't unanimous, Riley showed up on most of them:

• Baseball America: Riley
• Bleacher Report: Riley
• CBS Sports: Andrew Vaughn ("For weeks the Tigers have been strongly tied to outfielder Riley Greene, the best high school hitter in this draft, but Vaughn slipping would make them shift gears.") The White Sox took Vaughn at #3.
• Perfect Game: Riley
• Fangraphs: Vaughn ("Vaughn or Florida high school OF Riley Greene.")
• The Athletic: Riley
• Callis, MLB Pipeline: Riley
• Mayo, MLB Pipeline: Riley

 

 

I thought he was mocked to us because of our ties with him more than the expectations he was the best “ranked” prospect at that time, but I could be wrong.