chasfh Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said: IMO, Harris is going about rebuilding the Tigers the right way, building up the minor league talent level. He needs to stay the course. Don't trade prospects, good prospects, for rentals. However, when he has talented players, he needs to do everything he can to keep them. It's why I'm against trading away talented players like Skubal. Yes, he would probably get some blue chip prospects in return but we all saw what happens when established stars are traded for "can't miss" prospects. I don't totally blame Avila, he relied on scouts opinions and I would assume he was under orders to cut payroll. A fire sale usually doesn't work out for baseball teams. But when the talk turns to ERod, the blame falls squarely on Harris. He knew for months the contract had a no-trade clause. It should have been worked out with the player before even shopping him around. Harris has mostly been a fine GM and calling out his mistakes isn't a bad thing, just like calling out his good moves doesn't make him perfect. So far, his good moves outnumber his mistakes. Should Tiger fans be nervous about trade talks with Baltimore? After all, Nick Maton is in their system...🤣🤣 I don’t blame Harris because it is well-documented that Eduardo was on board with the trade all the way up to when he pulled the rug out from under us. That means Harris already worked it out with Eduardo and Eduardo flaked out on him. I don’t think there was anything reasonable Harris could have done to prevent it. You can hammer Harris for it all you like and hold his job over his head as it being his fault, as is your prerogative, but I don’t think that comports with all the reporting that was done on it. Also, I’m glad Harris didn’t do everything he could to keep Eduardo this year, even though he was our best pitcher during the first half of last year. I don’t think you have to worry about Harris dealing Skubal, at least not for a bag of Al Avila-brand circus peanuts. I believe any deal he would make would fall just inches short of the Soto haul, but I think even that is low single digit percent at best. Skubal will open the season In Dodger Stadium next year, and it will be for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, casimir said: I think they mentioned yesterday that the Tigers have a week straight of RH SP on the docket. It’s not surprising to see Vilade down for a LH bat, but for Madris rather than Baddoo just kind of cements Baddoo’s lack of future with Detroit. Easton Lucas up for the Cleveland series? The Guardians offense seems LHB heavy. Pitch well, stick around. Don’t and he’s swapped out for another pitcher for the Minnesota series, probably with an eye on a multiple inning pitcher? Lael Lockhart. I wanna see this kid against MLB hitters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, casimir said: Actually, I wonder if part of Madris over Baddoo is Madris’ ability to play 1B? I think also Madris is more of a contact guy and Baddoo is more of a speed and power guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, monkeytargets39 said: We just put Olson on the DL and called up Easton Lucas and also demoted Vilade for Bligh Madris. I'd put us in the “needs SP” list at this point I believe that we are not close enough to the playoffs this year to "needs SP". I think even if we have to bandaid, bullpen day, or give a bunch of untested AAA kids some spot starts to see how they fare in MLB... that's what will happen this year. I'm of the opinion that Harris doesn't think he "needs SP". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 58 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: I've heard this but Harris is a professional. Get an agreement in writing and then ... Gaslighting... GASLIGHTING. Yeah, that's exactly what you're doing here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 11 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: Erod has yet to pitch this season for the Diamondbacks due to injury. Not saying he's not hurt or taking the sloooow road back. He burned bridges in Detroit and Boston it seems as both teams made zero effort to sign him back in free agency. Harris probably had a good trade with LA versus no/bad trades with a team not on Rod's no trade list and when Rod and his agent verbally agreed he did not expect a last minute "stick up" for more $$. I applaud him for not mentioning this afterwards or complaining to the press. He acted very professionally. It's unfortunate but not his fault. Remember the LA GM Friedman also thought it was a done deal. Exactly right. Harris never whined about it or hammered Eduardo for it. He was very professional about it and kept his nose clean in the whole affair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 7 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: GASLIGHTING. Yeah, that's exactly what you're doing here. No, I'm not. Was ERod at fault? Probably. But this is MLB, these players have contracts, in writing. It said...no trade. You wanna trade him? Change the contract. Pay him off, if need be. Harris is NOT blameless in this deal. Maybe he learned a lesson from it, who knows? But yeah, I'm glad the Tigers let him walk. The guy is a knucklehead. The fact that the Tigers gave him all that time off for "personal reasons" and paid him millions of dollars should have gotten a little loyalty from him. But I keep going back to that contract, in writing, about no trades. Harris knew about it for months and he's the GM. The buck stops at the top and no matter what spin is put on it, he was the one responsible for moving him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 2 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: No, I'm not. Was ERod at fault? Probably. But this is MLB, these players have contracts, in writing. It said...no trade. You wanna trade him? Change the contract. Pay him off, if need be. Harris is NOT blameless in this deal. Maybe he learned a lesson from it, who knows? But yeah, I'm glad the Tigers let him walk. The guy is a knucklehead. The fact that the Tigers gave him all that time off for "personal reasons" and paid him millions of dollars should have gotten a little loyalty from him. But I keep going back to that contract, in writing, about no trades. Harris knew about it for months and he's the GM. The buck stops at the top and no matter what spin is put on it, he was the one responsible for moving him. GASLIGHTING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 In other words: You're making up some BS excuse to blame Harris because that's your narrative. Everyone knows E-Rod flaked out at the last minute and that fault is 100% his. You're... Gaslighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 18 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I believe that we are not close enough to the playoffs this year to "needs SP". I think even if we have to bandaid, bullpen day, or give a bunch of untested AAA kids some spot starts to see how they fare in MLB... that's what will happen this year. I'm of the opinion that Harris doesn't think he "needs SP". I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with saying we need SP just because of our current injury status. That being said, our only pitchers on the 40 man that aren’t in Detroit already or hurt are Englert, White and Wilmer Flores. We’d have to move Lange to the 60-day DL or DFA someone to clear up a spot for any of our other pitchers. Not to mention if we do make a Flaherty trade and he brings back more than one good prospect we’d need a 40 man spot for that as well. As much as I’d like to see Jobe, there’s zero reason to force him up the ladder. i feel like Madris and Lucas are gonna be DFAd around the deadline either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said: In other words: You're making up some BS excuse to blame Harris because that's your narrative. Everyone knows E-Rod flaked out at the last minute and that fault is 100% his. You're... Gaslighting. Everyone knows? Wow, a page out of a politicians book. Everyone...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 4 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: GASLIGHTING. I'm starting to think you don't know the meaning of gaslighting. Look it up. I think you'll be surprised. 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 Can we not rehash the whole Erod thing yet again? Nobody here actually knows what happened. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted July 21 Author Share Posted July 21 4 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: Can we not rehash the whole Erod thing yet again? Nobody here actually knows what happened. God yes please, between that and the Candelario situation I am not sure which one has been overdone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, LongLiveMaroth said: And honestly we saw what it was like without him. Not a super fun time having Kriedler and McKinstry as your SS. Now if we could pull someone like Nacho Alvarez from Atlanta to fill in that SS hole for next year that would be great. Nacho might be a tough get, seeing how Arcia is starting to turn into a pumpkin. But I do think that kind of return would be a great flip for Flaherty no matter what our record going into August is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 12 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: Can we not rehash the whole Erod thing yet again? Nobody here actually knows what happened. I agree that we don't know every conversation that went on behind the scenes but we do know that Eduardo agreed to a deal until he threw in a monkey wrench during the last hour to kill it. That part is not in dispute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 15 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: I'm starting to think you don't know the meaning of gaslighting. Look it up. I think you'll be surprised. 😆 Gaslighting: "manipulating someone into questioning their reality, memories, or sanity" Freak, you are LITERALLY trying to CREATE something that DOES NOT EXIST: "should have got it in WRITING" in order to try to deceive us into thinking Harris is at fault. No player, EVER, has signed anything in writing agreeing to be part of a trade. Go ahead and find an example for us... We're all waiting. Waiting... waiting... waiting... Oh yeah, it DOES NOT EXIST. You are the LITERAL definition of gaslighting. Try again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 4 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Gaslighting: "manipulating someone into questioning their reality, memories, or sanity" Freak, you are LITERALLY trying to CREATE something that DOES NOT EXIST: "should have got it in WRITING" in order to try to deceive us into thinking Harris is at fault. No player, EVER, has signed anything in writing agreeing to be part of a trade. Go ahead and find an example for us... We're all waiting. Waiting... waiting... waiting... Oh yeah, it DOES NOT EXIST. You are the LITERAL definition of gaslighting. Try again. Dude, relax. OK, you're right. Harris is totally blameless. It's all ERod's fault. Harris got him to agree to the trade and ERod screwed him over. The buck no longer stops at the top. I would say the original blame goes to the guy who gave him a no trade clause to begin with but I worry that would set you off again. Feel better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 11 minutes ago, chasfh said: I agree that we don't know every conversation that went on behind the scenes but we do know that Eduardo agreed to a deal until he threw in a monkey wrench during the last hour to kill it. That part is not in dispute. I heard that at the time but I never heard it mentioned by people in the know. Only on a sports message board. My only point is it should have been agreed to in advance, in writing, to protect both parties. And I would also like to think Harris learned an important lesson from it. I really dislike those multi-million dollar contracts with no trade clauses. As much as I would love to say it's all ERods fault, the big boss should take responsibility. Like we said, the player is/was an airhead who really couldn't be trusted to keep his word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 6 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: I heard that at the time but I never heard it mentioned by people in the know. Only on a sports message board. My only point is it should have been agreed to in advance, in writing, to protect both parties. And I would also like to think Harris learned an important lesson from it. I really dislike those multi-million dollar contracts with no trade clauses. As much as I would love to say it's all ERods fault, the big boss should take responsibility. Like we said, the player is/was an airhead who really couldn't be trusted to keep his word. Not true. It's all over reporting from the time, both local and national. And Harris did take responsibility. That too is in the reporting of the time. Eduardo simply flaked out and blocked the trade, and he was able to block the trade because Al Avila, not Scott Harris, gave Eduardo a no-trade clause. So when Eduardo flaked out, Harris's hands were tied. It looks for all the world like Eduardo never really wanted the trade, intended to go to the market in the offseason anyway, and just wanted to give the Tigers a big middle finger by stringing us along on the way out. I have no idea whether that's what happened, but hey, it's as good a hypothesis as any. And look, it worked: he got more money from another team than he would have had he approved the trade. Sometimes "evil" wins. If as you say Eduardo is a player is an airhead who can't be trusted to keep his word, then thank god he's gone. I know you would have liked to buy out his opt-out clause and keep him here, but thank god he is gone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 4 minutes ago, chasfh said: Not true. It's all over reporting from the time, both local and national. And Harris did take responsibility. That too is in the reporting of the time. Eduardo simply flaked out and blocked the trade, and he was able to block the trade because Al Avila, not Scott Harris, gave Eduardo a no-trade clause. So when Eduardo flaked out, Harris's hands were tied. It looks for all the world like Eduardo never really wanted the trade, intended to go to the market in the offseason anyway, and just wanted to give the Tigers a big middle finger by stringing us along on the way out. I have no idea whether that's what happened, but hey, it's as good a hypothesis as any. And look, it worked: he got more money from another team than he would have had he approved the trade. Sometimes "evil" wins. If as you say Eduardo is a player is an airhead who can't be trusted to keep his word, then thank god he's gone. I know you would have liked to buy out his opt-out clause and keep him here, but thank god he is gone. Yeah, he sounds like a cancer. And I did mention that Avila was the one who gave him that contract. But wasn't he going to be a FA whether we traded him or not? If so, he would have gotten more money pitching for LA (a playoff team) if he did well. I do remember talk of not buying out his no trade clause. My only point I've been trying to make is that Harris knew about his contract for months. When talking multimillion dollar deals, terms need to be in writing. If ERod agreed to be traded, get his signature and leave no doubt about it. To say the whole mess is ERods fault says Harris is faultless. And, like I've been trying to say, the buck stops at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said: I'm starting to think you don't know the meaning of gaslighting. Look it up. I think you'll be surprised. 😆 Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse or manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mind. Stop psychologically abusing and manipulating Chasfh and 84.😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, monkeytargets39 said: ... As much as I’d like to see Jobe, there’s zero reason to force him up the ladder... I don't think a guy who is dominating at AA, and gets a start or two at the end of the season to see how he fares against MLB hitters should be called "Forcing him up the ladder". That's not forcing him at all. He's ready for MLB, or almost ready, or nearly ready... A couple starts at the very end of the season isn't "forcing" IMO, it's "exposure to a higher level" and exposure does not = forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse or manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mind. Stop psychologically abusing and manipulating Chasfh and 84.😀 Well I'm already insane... But that's besides the point. 😉 Edited July 21 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 11 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse or manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mind. Stop psychologically abusing and manipulating Chasfh and 84.😀 Lol....no worries. One of them is on my ignore list now. I don't tolerate personal attacks. I can have a rational discussion with anyone who wants to express an opinion. Even if I don't agree with it. 😄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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