2024 Trade Deadline Rumors and Discussion

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

Rushing, Jackson Ferris and Alex Freeland for Flaherty would be enough for me

I thought I was asking too much for Flaherty with Rushing & Freeland but I like this MUCH better!!!

😁

[TigerNation]

57 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Since Flaherty is known to return a comp pick to Detroit when he turns down a QO, I think most teams would be inclined to offer the Tigers (value of comp pick) + $1. Although the Dodgers might offer (value of comp pick) + $1,000, because they need pitching this year.

As for the Orioles, rich guys can and do pay a lot more, so their #4 and #5 would be fair comp at minimum, even of they're not top 100s.

Worth noting that their #4 and #5 on MLB, but the Fangraphs they are #7 and #19. And the Fangraphs rankings are much more appropriate based on their scouting reports and performances to date.

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, TigerNation said:

Worth noting that their #4 and #5 on MLB, but the Fangraphs they are #7 and #19. And the Fangraphs rankings are much more appropriate based on their scouting reports and performances to date.

Good point, I agree. Either way, I don’t think Harris is depending on either Pipeline or Fangraphs. I’m sure they have a very robust system that will give them a better picture about possible returns in trade than are available to us.

[RatkoVarda]

I tell people at work to not use "perfect" but it really is the perfect storm to get a great return for Jack. I don't think it is just going to be the value of comp pick + some more.

Having LAD and maybe NYY involved, maybe Philly, and Houston and Atl - could lead to irrational return.

should also get good returns for average bats - lots of teams are starving for even league average production from holes in their line up.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Good point, I agree. Either way, I don’t think Harris is depending on either Pipeline or Fangraphs. I’m sure they have a very robust system that will give them a better picture about possible returns in trade than are available to us.

Yes, the Tigers have their own system.  The question is which publicly available list is likely to be closest to the lists the MLB teams have.  

[LongLiveMaroth]

Normally when a rental acquisition underperforms for his new club, that club wants no part of a reunion. But in the case of Detroit Tigers right-hander Jack Flaherty, the Baltimore Orioles would not rule out trading for him again, according to a source briefed on the team’s thinking.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5657377/2024/07/25/mlb-trade-deadline-watch-jack-flaherty/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[1984Echoes]

Jim Bowden (sorry if this is already posted...):

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5657415/2024/07/25/mlb-deadline-trade-proposals/

 

2. Tigers trade LHP Tarik Skubal to Orioles for OF Heston Kjerstad, 3B Coby Mayo and LHP Cade Povich

The Tigers would start the conversation by asking for second baseman Jackson Holliday or catcher Samuel Basallo and the Orioles would immediately reject either one being included in the deal. However, to part with an ace like Skubal, who has two additional years of control, the Tigers would need to get two everyday position players and a starting pitcher they could put right into their rotation. Mayo and Kjerstad would fit nicely behind Riley Greene in the Tigers’ lineup for years to come and Povich should develop into a solid mid-rotation starter. It’s a high price to pay for the Orioles but would give them a postseason rotation of Corbin Burnes, Skubal and Grayson Rodriguez, along with some protection if Burnes doesn’t re-sign in the offseason.

 

 

PS: I'm good with this trade.

[RandyMarsh]

I'm hanging up the phone if they don't include Holliday or Basallo.

If Im trading the top pitcher in baseball who is under control for 2yrs and 3 postseasons I'm not settling for the other teams prospects that they feel are expendable or what works for them.

No you're giving up what works for us and paying the premium of one of your top 2 guys, if you won't then somebody else will....or we'll just keep him and get another Cy Young season out of him. 

[monkeytargets39]

8 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

I tell people at work to not use "perfect" but it really is the perfect storm to get a great return for Jack. I don't think it is just going to be the value of comp pick + some more.

Having LAD and maybe NYY involved, maybe Philly, and Houston and Atl - could lead to irrational return.

should also get good returns for average bats - lots of teams are starving for even league average production from holes in their line up.

Agreed.  Despite that it would be clearly throwing in the towel this year (especially with what our Frankenstein rotation would be), I’ll take significantly adding upside to our young contending core over trying to weasel into the wildcard this year with a team not capable of making a serious run beyond that.  

it’ll be disappointing for two months this season but super exciting beyond that.  Especially if we can address pitching in the offseason.

[Tiger337]

6 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Agreed.  Despite that it would be clearly throwing in the towel this year (especially with what our Frankenstein rotation would be), I’ll take significantly adding upside to our young contending core over trying to weasel into the wildcard this year with a team not capable of making a serious run beyond that.  

it’ll be disappointing for two months this season but super exciting beyond that.  Especially if we can address pitching in the offseason.

If they can win the Wildcard, they can win the postseason crapshoot.  Winning the wildcard would be the hard part.  

[Edman85]

Yeah, a team with Skubal and Flaherty the way they are pitching this year can make some serious hay in the postseason.

Of all the years for the AL Central to not stink.

[monkeytargets39]

13 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Jim Bowden (sorry if this is already posted...):

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5657415/2024/07/25/mlb-deadline-trade-proposals/

 

2. Tigers trade LHP Tarik Skubal to Orioles for OF Heston Kjerstad, 3B Coby Mayo and LHP Cade Povich

The Tigers would start the conversation by asking for second baseman Jackson Holliday or catcher Samuel Basallo and the Orioles would immediately reject either one being included in the deal. However, to part with an ace like Skubal, who has two additional years of control, the Tigers would need to get two everyday position players and a starting pitcher they could put right into their rotation. Mayo and Kjerstad would fit nicely behind Riley Greene in the Tigers’ lineup for years to come and Povich should develop into a solid mid-rotation starter. It’s a high price to pay for the Orioles but would give them a postseason rotation of Corbin Burnes, Skubal and Grayson Rodriguez, along with some protection if Burnes doesn’t re-sign in the offseason.

 

 

PS: I'm good with this trade.

Kjersted is great and all, but are we in the market for an LH outfielder?  Not sure why that would be the headliner in a Skubal deal where we can aggressively go after exactly what we need or stand pat with the best pitcher in baseball until next deadline.

That would all but leave one of Meadows/Carpenter/Perez expendable especially by the time Clark is knocking on the door.  The trade would get us a great young player in Kjersted, but we’d end up shipping at least one of our current young core out later anyway…so it minimizes the overall return.  We need Carps power upside, and Perez is a definite plus being a switch hitter and playing all 3 OF positions and being competent all around on offense.  I guess you’d move on from Meadows but dealing him likely doesn’t get us much of a return unless he comes back blazing hot.

Give me either Holliday/Mayo/Povich, Basalo/Mayo/Povich or go screw.  Either of those acquisitions immediately fills in the roster now and for the future without us needing to make corresponding decisions on young players.   
 

Acquiring Skubal for your World Series runs the next 3 seasons should absolutely hurt the other teams minor league system, not be convenient for them.

 

 

 

[casimir]

13 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Yeah, a team with Skubal and Flaherty the way they are pitching this year can make some serious hay in the postseason.

Of all the years for the AL Central to not stink.

If Maeda was some semblance of his previous self, if Torkeson had progressed, if Baez hadn't completely fallen off of a cliff......

[monkeytargets39]

7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

If they can win the Wildcard, they can win the postseason crapshoot.  Winning the wildcard would be the hard part.  

I just think we are too far back at this point to gear decisions around our future around the unlikelihood of us making a magical run this year.

 

Id put Skubal/Flaherty/Olson up against most any other team, but we’ve also had those guys all year and we’ve consistently not converted their all-star level performances into even a .500 team heading into August.  There’s a lot of issues with this bullpen, offense and defense that are going to be amplified if we stand pat and make the playoffs., and it’ll be harder to make a big trade in our favor during the offseason when key teams aren’t desperate.

 

For every time an average team with a few good SPs makes an unlikely run to the WS, there’s a team with a Verlander/Scherzer/Sanchez/Fister/Porcello rotation that stalls out and doesn’t get it done.

 

Your point is valid though.  The last few weeks have been fun, but I’d prefer we try to set ourselves up to make multiple runs at the division and WS in the coming years.  

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I just think we are too far back at this point to gear decisions around our future around the unlikelihood of us making a magical run this year.

 

Id put Skubal/Flaherty/Olson up against most any other team, but we’ve also had those guys all year and we’ve consistently not converted their all-star level performances into even a .500 team heading into August.  There’s a lot of issues with this bullpen, offense and defense that are going to be amplified if we stand pat and make the playoffs., and it’ll be harder to make a big trade in our favor during the offseason when key teams aren’t desperate.

 

For every time an average team with a few good SPs makes an unlikely run to the WS, there’s a team with a Verlander/Scherzer/Sanchez/Fister/Porcello rotation that stalls out and doesn’t get it done.

 

Your point is valid though.  The last few weeks have been fun, but I’d prefer we try to set ourselves up to make multiple runs at the division and WS in the coming years.  

I don't think they have enough of a shot at a wildcard to not shop Flaherty and others.  They have a favorable schedule ahead, but I think the recent pitching injuries have made it really difficult.  I do want them to try to be competitive every year now though.  Every year, a semi-competitive makes a surprise run.  It could have been them this year, but it's probably not in the cards now.     

[monkeytargets39]

36 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I'm hanging up the phone if they don't include Holliday or Basallo.

If Im trading the top pitcher in baseball who is under control for 2yrs and 3 postseasons I'm not settling for the other teams prospects that they feel are expendable or what works for them.

No you're giving up what works for us and paying the premium of one of your top 2 guys, if you won't then somebody else will....or we'll just keep him and get another Cy Young season out of him. 

I agree 100%
 

If Harris & Co. trade Skubal to the O’s or Dodgers and doesn’t strip their farm system of three of their top 5 guys minimally, I’d want them fired.  This is not a scenario where you move Skubal for a package that is comfortable for the other team.  It needs to hurt.

[monkeytargets39]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't think they have enough of a shot at a wildcard to not shop Flaherty and others.  They have a favorable schedule ahead, but I think the recent pitching injuries have made it really difficult.  I do want them to try to be competitive every year now though.  Every year, a semi-competitive makes a surprise run.  It could have been them this year, but it's probably not in the cards now.     

100%.   I’d argue that surprise team is more the Royals this year than us.  

[monkeytargets39]

15 minutes ago, casimir said:

If Maeda was some semblance of his previous self, if Torkeson had progressed, if Baez hadn't completely fallen off of a cliff......

Baez fell off the cliff a few years ago.  

At this point it’s like that scene from The Simpsons where they pull Homer out of the bottom of the gorge and load him into the ambulance and then immediately crash the ambulance into a tree and he rolls out of the back and falls down the gorge again…

[casimir]

9 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Baez fell off the cliff a few years ago.  

At this point it’s like that scene from The Simpsons where they pull Homer out of the bottom of the gorge and load him into the ambulance and then immediately crash the ambulance into a tree and he rolls out of the back and falls down the gorge again…

Once he landed in the gorge, did he settle there?  Or did he created a new hole to fall through?  Because the former is 2023 Baez and the latter is 2024 Baez.

At this point, I think cutting him has to be ramped up.  I didn't think it would be this offseason, but my goodness, a OPS+ of 91, 63, 27 and the defense isn't what it used to be.  He has been demoted to a semi platoon and like @chasfh said, they hit him 17th in the lineup if they could.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

I dunno. If they got Kjersted, Mayo and Povich the lineup late next year/going into 26 could look like

1. - Clark CF
2. Kjersted LF
3. Greene - RF
4. Mayo - 3B
5. Jung - 2B
6 - Carpenter 1B
7. McGonigle  SS/FA to hold over for Rainer
8. Dingler
9. DH (FA) (maybe Tork figures it out)

This doesn't even include anyone we sign outside of our organization. In the offseason, offer Burnes and Flaherty to Resign.

Burnes
Jobe
Flaherty
Olson
Mize (?)

 

Bullpen

That my friends is a playoff team. Ahh one can dream..... 

 

Ok back to reality.....

[monkeytargets39]

16 minutes ago, casimir said:

Once he landed in the gorge, did he settle there?  Or did he created a new hole to fall through?  Because the former is 2023 Baez and the latter is 2024 Baez.

At this point, I think cutting him has to be ramped up.  I didn't think it would be this offseason, but my goodness, a OPS+ of 91, 63, 27 and the defense isn't what it used to be.  He has been demoted to a semi platoon and like @chasfh said, they hit him 17th in the lineup if they could.

I haven’t done the research myself, but I’ve seen it on other baseball websites that Baez’ current OPS is the lowest in modern history by a qualified player.

 

Even if he was among the best defensive SS ever to play the game, that offensive production isn’t worth it.  Give me Deivi Cruz all day over that.

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Yes, the Tigers have their own system.  The question is which publicly available list is likely to be closest to the lists the MLB teams have.  

I would think it's Fangraphs, which uses a combination of eyeball scouting and physical data and analytics, whereas Pipeline feels like it's a combination of eyeball scouting and physical data and finger in the wind.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

I'm hanging up the phone if they don't include Holliday or Basallo.

If Im trading the top pitcher in baseball who is under control for 2yrs and 3 postseasons I'm not settling for the other teams prospects that they feel are expendable or what works for them.

No you're giving up what works for us and paying the premium of one of your top 2 guys, if you won't then somebody else will....or we'll just keep him and get another Cy Young season out of him. 

@Greg Pappas

[Edman85]

Why does The Athletic employ Jim Bowden?

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

If they can win the Wildcard, they can win the postseason crapshoot.  Winning the wildcard would be the hard part.  

Even were we to sneak into the playoffs, which is far less than 50-50 even now, we're not winning the postseason crapshoot against the Orioles-Yankees-Indians-Dodgers-Phillies-Brewers with a gimpy rotation, a bullpen without a shutdown back end, and a flaky decimated offense made up of inexperienced young guys and stopgap veterans and Javier Baez. Failing to strike while the iron is hot in exchange for a puncher's chance of sneaking into the third playoff shot would be executive malpractice.