2024 Trade Deadline Rumors and Discussion

[Sports_Freak]

Can you imagine the nightmare of being called into the managers office and being told you've been traded to the White Sox? I would say it's time to put an application in at the local Amazon warehouse. 🤣🤣

[chasfh]

20 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

quick winter shopping list:

C: #3 catcher

1: need a multi-positional guy who can slide to first (not Canha but like him) if Tork flops again

2: covered for now

SS: need short and medium term options as Baez/McKinstry/Kreidler are bad; Sweeney seems stretched at SS

3: have so many blah internal options, Harris will again ignore external options

OF: need another CF option if Veirling at 3rd; need RH power

Need 2 starters and 2 BP arms

One thing I'd like to see Harris do in the next 12 months is secure at least one fire-breathing back-of-the-bullpen guy, whether via trade, waivers, Rule 5 pickup, MiLB contract, or development. That is one component without which you cannot win the 2025 game.

[syrett4]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If I had to bet a dollar on this proposition, I would take the over on Harris sees something in the kid that suggests his hit tool can be improved.

"Like" out of likes for today.  

Yes and this was our discussion before where when it comes to the draft Harris has his scouts looking for a certain profile (low k, high bb, contact %, athletic, multiple positions, Pitchers upside, throws strikes, high velocity etc)   However when it comes to established players he has his pro scouting look for flaws in other team players that he believes his coaches can fix.   Lee has improved this year from last years deadline, Lorenzen/Canha/Flaherty, we saw something in Ibanez, McKinstry, Malloy, Leonard and Vierling that a part of their game wasn't being developed.   I think all of the guys he traded for he believes he can fix and make more valuable either for the Tigers or to flip at the next deadline.   Now that being said, he doesn't have a 100% hit rate as it doesn't explain Javy Tork or Maeda but sometimes it is up to the player to accept being coachable. 

 

[kdog]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

This is totally fair and we all do the same thing: make devastating judgments about the performance of high-level strategic baseball professional based on incomplete and imperfect information. What could be more fun as an engaged, analytical fan? 😁

But I want to ask you about the bold-faced part. You say Harris has a strategy of overasking and waiting until the end of the deadline to make moves that you don't like. This almost suggests that you would prefer he take lesser deals earlier in the deadline period. I'm not sure that's what you're trying to put across, so can you spool out for me what you mean by this to help me understand your thinking here?

 

My annoyance with Harris' team building approach is clouding my objective judgement. He's a bit of a neophyte in the executive game. It's believable to me that he had outlandish value on Flaherty and then had to reduce his ask late in the day. And it's possible that he had the same approach with Skubal and didn't trade him. That might be a positive.

I don't like unending wait for development approach. You're asking for a confluence of things to all work out at once.

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, Sports_Freak said:

Can you imagine the nightmare of being called into the managers office and being told you've been traded to the White Sox? I would say it's time to put an application in at the local Amazon warehouse. 🤣🤣

They happen to have one of those at 35th and S. Ashland, just a couple miles from that ballpark. That's pretty local.

[Sports_Freak]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

How would you approach team-building differently than you suspect Harris is doing?

Significant trades. Bringing in ML talent, not borderline minor league talent.

[KL2]

16 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I think many fans are missing the big picture of the trade deadline moves. The Tigers traded away 3 established ML players and didn't receive any players for the major league club. Will any of the new players make the majors? We'll see within a couple of years. And while Canha and Flaherty weren't signed past this season, Chafin had a team option. Being sellers, again, at the trade deadline, stinks. May as well get something for players who are going to walk. Is there hope for next season or will it still be an "evaluation" year? Harris may need to make off-season trades to bring ML talent here. We need pitching...starters and BP.

Teams adding deadline talent don't subtract from their ML squads. That's not how it works. 

[Longgone]

14 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If I had to bet a dollar on this proposition, I would take the over on Harris sees something in the kid that suggests his hit tool can be improved.

Sure, but he’s not “Tork insurance”. As a catching prospect he’s rated very highly, if he were first base only, he’d be ranked very low.

[Tigerbomb13]

4 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Significant trades. Bringing in ML talent, not borderline minor league talent.

Which you won’t get for two months of Flaherty. 

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, kdog said:

My annoyance with Harris' team building approach is clouding my objective judgement. He's a bit of a neophyte in the executive game. It's believable to me that he had outlandish value on Flaherty and then had to reduce his ask late in the day. And it's possible that he had the same approach with Skubal and didn't trade him. That might be a positive.

I don't like unending wait for development approach. You're asking for a confluence of things to all work out at once.

It was reported that Harris had a very high ask on Flaherty, even with the Dodgers, and settled for Lirzano and Sweeney. But I'm still not quite following your objection to this. Does this mean he should simply have asked for Lirzano and Sweeney last week so he could be done with it?

As for the wait-for-development approach: I'm not sure what else our options are. We can't trade our way to an immediate winner because we don't have the prospect capital to liquidate for that. We can't free agent our way to an immediate winner until players actively want to play for and in Detroit. We can't waiver wire or MiLB free agent our way to a winner because there's not enough talent to be gleaned from those wires. That leaves the development process to build a winner. Unless I'm missing something here that you're seeing?

[chasfh]

7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Significant trades. Bringing in ML talent, not borderline minor league talent.

Can you give me an example of a trade we could make right now that would yield impact talent that would help us win right now?

[syrett4]

3 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Significant trades. Bringing in ML talent, not borderline minor league talent.

 

This is the problem though.   Harris took over and Harold Castro was on the team.   To get ML players back you either have to trade ML talent so are you going to trade Greene? Keith? Skubal?     What is the ML market value of Canha?  I'd rather have a prospect with some upside than get another Dawell Lugo or Harold Castro on the roster.  The other way to get ML talent is to sell off prospects of value Jobe?  Jung?  What is Tork's value right now?  You'd have to package them to get a another team top 10.   Harris is doing the right thing filling up the DSL, FCL, Flygers and now Whitecaps.   I believe eventually he will get there, but he was left with absolutely no depth in our entire minor league system to make any of the kind of deals you want to see. 

[RandyMarsh]

We can't complain about our past GM that settled for too little then complain about our current one asking too much and not immediately settling.

Sure there was a chance he turned down a better offer last week by waiting but Id rather him take the chance and hope that a better offer comes then take one of the first ones he gets cause he's worried a better one wont come. 

[gehringer_2]

24 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If I had to bet a dollar on this proposition, I would take the over on Harris sees something in the kid that suggests his hit tool can be improved.

yeah - there is a certain paradox in looking at developing players. If a guy has great balance and good compact swing mechanics you might think - hey this is a guy we like. But OTOH, if he has all those attributes and he's not producing, where does he have to go to get better? On the other hand, if a guy looks terrible but is still having some success, then maybe your eyes should light up under your coaching hat thinking "Here is something I can work with"  🤔

[chasfh]

11 minutes ago, Longgone said:

Sure, but he’s not “Tork insurance”. As a catching prospect he’s rated very highly, if he were first base only, he’d be ranked very low.

Well, "Tork insurance" wasn't me, but I did say I thought this puts Tork on notice, and that maybe a trade to a more less forward-thinking organization might be good for him. But I am taking the scouting at face value has below-average catcher tools but has shown good glove and soft hands at first.

To your point, if his hitting is already a finished product, then yeah, he doesn't rank highly at first. But if what I suspect is true—if Harris sees an opportunity to substantially improve his too—then he might end up being a plus all-around first baseman after all.

[Sports_Freak]

9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Can you give me an example of a trade we could make right now that would yield impact talent that would help us win right now?

Of course not, I'm not a baseball GM. Look at what other successful GMs have done thru the years. Bringing in established players would increase payroll and, if it were trades, empty out our minor league system. But look at his last off-season moves, he traded for Canha, signed Flaherty and Chafin. All gone for borderline prospects. Yeah, we wouldn't have gotten anything for them but are we closer to contending than we were last week? What's the timetable? 2026? 2027? Not strictly thru the draft, sometimes a major trade needs to be made.

[chasfh]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

yeah - there is a certain paradox in looking at developing players. If a guy has great balance and good compact swing mechanics you might think - hey this is a guy we like. But OTOH, if he has all those attributes and he's not producing, where does he have to go to get better? On the other hand, if a guy looks terrible but is still having some success, then maybe your eyes should light up under your coaching hat thinking "Here is something I can work with"  🤔

Do you mean to say you think Liranzo is not producing? Because he is slashing .220/.344/.356, good for a wRC+ of 105, in his age 20 season in a Midwest League he is young for by -2.3 years. If this is what you mean by "not producing", then, man, tough crowd here.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

22 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Can you give me an example of a trade we could make right now that would yield impact talent that would help us win right now?

Skubal for Basallo, Mayo, Cowser and Povich. 

Cowser, every day LF, Mayo Every day 3B and Povich our new #3 starter. 

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Of course not, I'm not a baseball GM. Look at what other successful GMs have done thru the years. Bringing in established players would increase payroll and, if it were trades, empty out our minor league system. But look at his last off-season moves, he traded for Canha, signed Flaherty and Chafin. All gone for borderline prospects. Yeah, we wouldn't have gotten anything for them but are we closer to contending than we were last week? What's the timetable? 2026? 2027? Not strictly thru the draft, sometimes a major trade needs to be made.

So wait a minute: are you saying a successful GM would trade Jobe and Clark and Jung and McGonigle to get an established player we need to pay a big salary to? Do I have that straight?

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Skubal for Basallo, Mayo, Cowser and Povich. 

Cowser, every day LF, Mayo Every day 3B and Povich our new #3 starter. 

OK, good example. Do the Orioles make that trade?

[AlaskanTigersFan]

Out of all seriousness though.... What started the Tigers last run was signing was signing one bonafide player to get credibility. That was Pudge. We then signed Maglio Ordonez the next month.

This offseason would be a GREAT opportunity for the Tigers to sign players. If they can get two every day players and pitching, they could really change this team around. It won't be cheap. They need to bring in Star Veterans to help all of our young players out. I harp on our young players probably more than anyone. I'm a firm believer you need at least 3 players with a .800 OPS+ if not 4 to be competitive in the post season. 

Why shouldn't we be looking at Juan Soto, or Corbin Burnes in the offseason? The Dodgers are over the luxury tax, cant afford, the Yankee's also probably can't afford as they will be over. Angels and Boston will be the two big market main teams running for these guys... Why not us? We easily can fit in the cap space. 

We have a lot in the pipeline, but not all will make it. We need to go out and spend on stars to build credibility here. Thats what we did in the past and that's what we're going to need to do again to be successful. This offseason we should be spending..... 

[AlaskanTigersFan]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

OK, good example. Do the Orioles make that trade?

Hey now, I was just answering your question...... 😏

 

But in the offseason, after they get bounced in the first round of the playoffs because their starters couldn't handle it.... Yep! 😋

[syrett4]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

OK, good example. Do the Orioles make that trade?

Nope.  I read Mayo and Basallo were DOA proposals.   Baltimore is still prospect hugging.  They haven't felt the need to put all of their chips in yet.  If they win the WS this year, they may have been right.  If they get bounced, maybe they develop some intestinal fortitude this winter and call Harris to get Skubal and make that offer. 

[Tiger337]

18 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Of course not, I'm not a baseball GM. Look at what other successful GMs have done thru the years. Bringing in established players would increase payroll and, if it were trades, empty out our minor league system. But look at his last off-season moves, he traded for Canha, signed Flaherty and Chafin. All gone for borderline prospects. Yeah, we wouldn't have gotten anything for them but are we closer to contending than we were last week? What's the timetable? 2026? 2027? Not strictly thru the draft, sometimes a major trade needs to be made.

You mean like trading for Guillen and Polanco?

[kdog]

8 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Out of all seriousness though.... What started the Tigers last run was signing was signing one bonafide player to get credibility. That was Pudge. We then signed Maglio Ordonez the next month.

This offseason would be a GREAT opportunity for the Tigers to sign players. If they can get two every day players and pitching, they could really change this team around. It won't be cheap. They need to bring in Star Veterans to help all of our young players out. I harp on our young players probably more than anyone. I'm a firm believer you need at least 3 players with a .800 OPS+ if not 4 to be competitive in the post season. 

Why shouldn't we be looking at Juan Soto, or Corbin Burnes in the offseason? The Dodgers are over the luxury tax, cant afford, the Yankee's also probably can't afford as they will be over. Angels and Boston will be the two big market main teams running for these guys... Why not us? We easily can fit in the cap space. 

We have a lot in the pipeline, but not all will make it. We need to go out and spend on stars to build credibility here. Thats what we did in the past and that's what we're going to need to do again to be successful. This offseason we should be spending..... 

It's pretty clear that they aren't going to take risks with large free agent contracts. They will overpay on short team deals. But they don't want to even risk the potential of another Baez situation. If that is the case, he has to take risk elsewhere.