casimir Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 18 minutes ago, chasfh said: Also, let’s pretend that we come out of the break and go 7-4 or better by the morning of July 30. That might be unlikely since we have three at TOR, four at CLE, and then home for MINx3 and CLEx1. That would make us 54-54 at minimum. Do we become buyers? I predict we don’t. I believe the idea was always that we would use this season to evaluate what we have in-house from Avila that we can go long with, and if we happen to contend, that would be a happy upside outcome that will be good experience for future seasons for the guys who do stay. I think the bigger, tougher question at that point would be, would we still sell Flaherty et al? I think we probably would not unless we were to get a Mayo+ or Salas+ type package, which I think is super unlikely. Trading our top chip at the deadline while we are in such an upsurge would be really demoralizing to the guys, and I don’t think Harris would do that; plus if we keep Flaherty, it would not be a dead loss because we would go the QO route with him this winter. So, OK, some/many have opined that this is a season of evaluation. Let's take the 54-54 record, assume its a few games out of the last wildcard and say there are 2 or 3 teams in between. That's a heck of a testing environment for evaluating some of the guys, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 (edited) Id have no problem buying if it's for guys under control for atleast a couple years that could help in 2025 and beyond. Id be hesitant to go after a rental though for a 25-30% shot at the playoffs.... unless they could be had for cheap in which case sure go ahead. Edited July 15 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said: Id have no problem buying if it's for guys under control for atleast a couple years that could help in 2025 and beyond. Id be hesitant to go after a rental though for a 25-30% shot at the playoffs.... unless they could be had for cheap in which case sure go ahead. Right, it all depends upon what the deal is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 8 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: Id have no problem buying if it's for guys under control for atleast a couple years that could help in 2025 and beyond. Id be hesitant to go after a rental though for a 25-30% shot at the playoffs.... unless they could be had for cheap in which case sure go ahead. 5 minutes ago, casimir said: Right, it all depends upon what the deal is. 2012 was the perfect example of what can happen if you buy at the deadline with a mediocre record. Of course that team also had a future MVP and multiple future Cy Young award winners on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 3 minutes ago, romad1 said: 2012 was the perfect example of what can happen if you buy at the deadline with a mediocre record. Of course that team also had a future MVP and multiple future Cy Young award winners on it. Just glancing at Baseball Reference, that team got hot just before the AS break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 24 minutes ago, casimir said: So, OK, some/many have opined that this is a season of evaluation. Let's take the 54-54 record, assume its a few games out of the last wildcard and say there are 2 or 3 teams in between. That's a heck of a testing environment for evaluating some of the guys, isn't it? Sure it is, but it is a good test for one of the youngest, greenest, rawest teams in the game today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 40 minutes ago, chasfh said: Also, let’s pretend that we come out of the break and go 7-4 or better by the morning of July 30. That might be unlikely since we have three at TOR, four at CLE, and then home for MINx3 and CLEx1. That would make us 54-54 at minimum. Do we become buyers? I predict we don’t. I believe the idea was always that we would use this season to evaluate what we have in-house from Avila that we can go long with, and if we happen to contend, that would be a happy upside outcome that will be good experience for future seasons for the guys who do stay. I think the bigger, tougher question at that point would be, would we still sell Flaherty et al? I think we probably would not unless we were to get a Mayo+ or Salas+ type package, which I think is super unlikely. Trading our top chip at the deadline while we are in such an upsurge would be really demoralizing to the guys, and I don’t think Harris would do that; plus if we keep Flaherty, it would not be a dead loss because we would go the QO route with him this winter. Flaherty was signed for the sole purpose of improving his pitches and, if so, to be moved at the trade deadline. Harris waited too long last season with the ERod deal and it failed because of the no-trade clause in his contract. Flaherty can be traded anywhere, find the best possible deal and move him. There are many possible playoff teams that need pitching so just make demands and if no team(s) meet them, keep Jack here. Wait to see if his back is OK and try to extend him. If not, take the comp pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 based on the 23 and 24 drafts, Harris would clearly be content to get the comp pick in 25 for Flaherty after making the QO (and pick a high school kid we would not see until 2030) to me that's the 3rd best choice; prefer to extend him or trade him Mets are surging, so I'll suggest Flaherty for 3B Baty (L), who has spent most of the season in AAA, but was a top prospect for years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 5 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Flaherty was signed for the sole purpose of improving his pitches and, if so, to be moved at the trade deadline. Harris waited too long last season with the ERod deal and it failed because of the no-trade clause in his contract. Flaherty can be traded anywhere, find the best possible deal and move him. There are many possible playoff teams that need pitching so just make demands and if no team(s) meet them, keep Jack here. Wait to see if his back is OK and try to extend him. If not, take the comp pick. I agree that was Plan A for Flaherty, and I also agree that we set the price high and don’t move much, if at all, off it, because we have options. I think extending him is a bit of a long shot, because he will want at least 4/80, and he should get at least that from someone, and I don’t see us being the team that gives that to him, not after a single revival season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 4 minutes ago, chasfh said: I agree that was Plan A for Flaherty, and I also agree that we set the price high and don’t move much, if at all, off it, because we have options. I think extending him is a bit of a long shot, because he will want at least 4/80, and he should get at least that from someone, and I don’t see us being the team that gives that to him, not after a single revival season. I don't know about that. Teams may take a long hard look at his back issues and not take the chance. Is his back something from previous seasons? That's a lot of money to risk...I just don't know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: I don't know about that. Teams may take a long hard look at his back issues and not take the chance. Is his back something from previous seasons? That's a lot of money to risk...I just don't know... They’ll pay more for insurance, true, but when he’s right, he’s fire. And I think there are a few teams out there who like their luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 3 minutes ago, chasfh said: They’ll pay more for insurance, true, but when he’s right, he’s fire. And I think there are a few teams out there who like their luck. I've read that many teams can no longer get insurance policies on some of these contracts. Pitchers are injuries waiting to happen. But Flaherty improving his stock is great for the Tigers reputation, maybe more pitchers will sign in the coming years to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 (edited) 52 minutes ago, chasfh said: Sure it is, but it is a good test for one of the youngest, greenest, rawest teams in the game today. Precisely my point. Here it is boys. This is playoff baseball. Let's learn some lessons now. Edited July 15 by casimir 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 21 minutes ago, casimir said: Precisely my point. Here it is boys. This is playoff baseball. Let's learn some lessons now. 🤎 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 (edited) IMHO, I do not think Flaherty will get 4 years. GMs are wising up on SPs and very few will get long term deals (exception maybe Skubal and even then... ). I would be ok with 2-3 years at higher AAV, but Jack may need to see what is out there first. Even if traded we could try to resign him. I like the BBatty idea (3B NYM) posted by RatkoVarda, as it seems young MVientos has taken hold of that 3B job. However, it may take more than a rental SP. Here is where the FO can show its oats, add in a prospect or two (not named Clark, McGonigle or Jobe). Batty has just as much pedigree as JJung and is more a natural 3B. This 'should' be the type of deal this FO is looking for. Get someone who is blocked, has done well at AAA already and tasted the MLB and possibly could be obtained. Also MVargas, DRushing and APages of LADD, etc. fit the mold. Those type of players are out there; young, blocked with no where to get regular ABs and on a contendeing team that would like to win now (reason looking at Flaherty in the first place). IMHO, forget the player that might be ready by 2027, we are already drafting many of those. If they play their cards right, and stay relatively healthy, with a little luck they can continue to compete this year and even more so next season. Go Tigs! Edited July 15 by alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 2 hours ago, romad1 said: 2012 was the perfect example of what can happen if you buy at the deadline with a mediocre record. Of course that team also had a future MVP and multiple future Cy Young award winners on it. And a HOF manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 3 minutes ago, 1776 said: And a HOF manager. Granted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 The Tigers are, at best, a .500 team. Not yet, but close. I wouldn't trade a single prospect in hope of passing half a dozen teams for the last wild card. This little hot streak is really fun and hopefully signs of things to come in a couple of years. But don't trade away a future player who could possibly help us win in a couple/few years. Just my opinion...I hate trading prospects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 17 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: The Tigers are, at best, a .500 team. Not yet, but close. I wouldn't trade a single prospect in hope of passing half a dozen teams for the last wild card. This little hot streak is really fun and hopefully signs of things to come in a couple of years. But don't trade away a future player who could possibly help us win in a couple/few years. Just my opinion...I hate trading prospects. I will be anger if we trade our SPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 I agree that we should not move prospects for rentals to help our cause this season. However, I would move some in a trade for a controllable player that can help beyond this season, similar to our first round picks we dealt for Cabrera (Maybin, Miller) and Anibal and Infante (Jacob Turner). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: The Tigers are, at best, a .500 team. Not yet, but close. I wouldn't trade a single prospect in hope of passing half a dozen teams for the last wild card. This little hot streak is really fun and hopefully signs of things to come in a couple of years. But don't trade away a future player who could possibly help us win in a couple/few years. Just my opinion...I hate trading prospects. I agree with this for the most part. There are times when it is appropriate to trade prospects for established players who can put you over the top and/or take you into November. This is not one of those times. Edited July 15 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 31 minutes ago, romad1 said: I will be anger if we trade our SPs. You misspelled "angar". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 18 minutes ago, chasfh said: You misspelled "angar". I'm a moran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 hour ago, romad1 said: I'm a moran. No, just stoopid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 2 hours ago, romad1 said: I will be anger if we trade our SPs. Flaherty was signed to be traded. I just hope the return is a player who can contribute really soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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