Motor City Sonics Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 20 hours ago, kdog said: Another issue is that he set the bar so high on trades that he never made them(Matthew Boyd, etc). The ability to gin up a trade market and get good value is part of the job. Avila could not do it. Just don't settle. You settle once and show what you'll do when you're desperate and you'll never be taken seriously. Play it right and you'll get good offers when the Tigers aren't contenders in 2025 or 2026 too. I don't think Harris believes this team is anywhere close to contending. If he did, he wouldn't be drafting so many high school players at the top. He's aiming for 2027 / 2028. Skubal won't be here then, but I don't think they are trading him this year, maybe next when they have about the same record as this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: If he did, he wouldn't be drafting so many high school players at the top. I don't think this is necessarily the case. To me prep vs college is more a matter of confidence in your evaluation skills, the depth of your scouting, and swinging for the fences than the time differential. It also dovetails with a management believing they can bring players further faster with their development people than players can progress in 2/3 yrs in the NCAA. Just the fact that in the minors you can push a guy up to keep him playing against his ceiling instead of having him basically waste a year outclassing his NCAA average competition has to be an advantage. Hitters especially don't learn much playing against bunches of pitchers then can hit 400 against. Edited July 19 by gehringer_2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, LongLiveMaroth said: I just confused on how this would be on ownership. Seems like an unnecessary jump. It's his team. Kind of like saying a guy who owns a company has no say in how it's run, etc. If I own a company that produces a product and the product is awful, whose fault is it ultimately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) Edman and Mark would know better but Ive always been under the impression that most teams and in most instances teams just take who they feel is the bpa(except for money situations) and not based off of a specific timeline. There are exceptions like when DD drafted possible mlb ready relievers high that one draft but for the most part Im of the belief that things like big league needs or timelines aren't taken into consideration. Edited July 19 by RandyMarsh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 15 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: Edman and Mark would know better but Ive always been under the impression that most teams and in most instances teams just take who they feel is the bpa(except for money situations) and not based off of a specific timeline. There are exceptions like when DD drafted possible mlb ready relievers high that one draft but for the most part Im of the belief that things like big league needs or timelines aren't taken into consideration. You draft talent, not timelines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 3 hours ago, Topliner1903 said: In a trade with Baltimore, perhaps the Tigers could make it more palatable for them by including a prospect with Skubal, like Jace Jung or Hao Yu Lee. Can’t move those guys in a deal with the O’s, as I might need them when I visit the Blue Jays message board to acquire Vladdy Jr and/or Bichette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 3 hours ago, Topliner1903 said: In a trade with Baltimore, perhaps the Tigers could make it more palatable for them by including a prospect with Skubal, like Jace Jung or Hao Yu Lee. Can’t move those guys in a deal with the O’s, as I might need them when I visit the Blue Jays message board to acquire Vladdy Jr and/or Bichette. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBlue Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 It's henning. Henning: Time is here for Tigers to make a mega-trade — if the price is right 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, LongLiveMaroth said: Win 8 of the next 10 and that could very well happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 last night when leaving the concert the marquis on the Fox had a graphic of Skubal saying "It's Skoob Time" and encouraging you to buy tickets. They are not trading Skubal. Not because of what I saw but because he's as close to a franchise player they have right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 2 hours ago, SkyBlue said: It's henning. Henning: Time is here for Tigers to make a mega-trade — if the price is right Trade Skubal to compete in 2025 doesn't make sense. You trade him if your window doesn't open until '27. I doubt they trade him. Is a team going to put 200+ innings on his arm this year? Seems like an injury concern to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 The scary part of trading Skubal is the return. Any player(s) we get will be given multiple chances to try to make Scott Harris look good. Even if they're total busts. Example? Nick Maton. Every Tiger fan saw he wasn't an MLB caliber player. But game after game, he was in the line-up, no matter how bad he was going. Not only given every chance but given extra chances. Why? Because Scott Harris traded for him with the plan to make him our 3rd baseman, taking the place of Candelario. Think about the possibility of having a few Matons in the line-up. If Harris trades for them, they'll be in the line-up for most of 2025. Whether they earn playing time or not. Even if they do poorly. A Skubal trade could set us back a few years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 I mean if the price is right, pull the trigger. You don't turn down a king's ransom for Skubal out of some short sighted sense of pride. You also don't have any need to settle for a meh package because you need to trade him. He's got two more years of control. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 58 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: The scary part of trading Skubal is the return. Any player(s) we get will be given multiple chances to try to make Scott Harris look good. Even if they're total busts. Example? Nick Maton. Every Tiger fan saw he wasn't an MLB caliber player. But game after game, he was in the line-up, no matter how bad he was going. Not only given every chance but given extra chances. Why? Because Scott Harris traded for him with the plan to make him our 3rd baseman, taking the place of Candelario. Think about the possibility of having a few Matons in the line-up. If Harris trades for them, they'll be in the line-up for most of 2025. Whether they earn playing time or not. Even if they do poorly. A Skubal trade could set us back a few years. Bad example. Maton was sent down in July and DFA'ed over the offseason. Harris and Co. were actually pretty prompt in not doubling down there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) 3 hours ago, LongLiveMaroth said: I wouldn’t support giving up any of our youth or prospects to buy for this year. Adding an impact bat doesn’t make this lineup much more of a contender. Especially with our current bullpen and 4/5 spots in the rotation right now. For me, it all comes down to whether or not Illitch/Harris are willing to pay Skubal to keep him. If they aren’t, then now is the time to move him and get the max return. Keeping Skubal and then letting him walk for nothing or get injured and tank the value will hurt worse than a trade designed around getting a long term competitive core. Not moving Boyd, Fulmer or E-Rod effectively has really hurt the current rebuild. If they’re gonna be cheap, then that’s gonna be obvious in the near future with or without a Skubal trade and we will be pissed about it either way. The worst thing they can do is be cheap and dumb about being cheap. Edited July 19 by monkeytargets39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 9 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Bad example. Maton was sent down in July and DFA'ed over the offseason. Harris and Co. were actually pretty prompt in not doubling down there. Agreed. Avila was the one who hung onto his marginal players way too long. Jacoby Jones, Mikie Mahtook, the Castros, Victor Reyes, Greyson Greiner, etc. Thousands of at bats to well below league average players who rarely showed signs that they could be consistent at this level. Harris hasn’t really done that yet. He’s already jettisoned Maton and Sands, and hasn’t shied away from things like Torkelson, Meadows, Baddoo and Manning going to Toledo for extended time frames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) I’m starting to flip flop on my stance on Skubal. While it’s exciting (love the trade deadline) to speculate on potential suitors and offers, as well as have the national media comment on it, I’m not sure it’s ultimately best for us, if you think we could be a playoff contender as soon as next season. A ’25 rotation of Skubal, Olson, Jobe and Mize could be very good. Finding an ace is virtually impossible (we haven’t had anyone close to his performance since Verlander). If Jobe performs to his potential, the two of them would be a force. When I think of who we could get in return from Baltimore, Boston, LA, etc…, would we really be getting back better prospects than what we currently have? You could say that about Holliday, but anyone we get in return has to be markedly better than: 1B: Josue Briceno 2B: Colt Keith, Hao-Yu Lee SS: Kevin McGonigle, Bryce Rainer 3B: Jace Jung OF: Parker Meadows, Kerry Carpenter, Max Clark, Justyn-Henry Malloy C : Dillon Dingler While many of the prospects being discussed might be better than our younger players listed above, they are still prospects (see Torkelson, Spencer) and not sure things. Upgrading at C and 1B, and maybe another OF, would benefit the organization, as we are not particularly deep/strong there. I’d rather focus on moving Flaherty (would be difficult to move both him and Skubal this season without getting MLB-ready pitching in return to cover their innings) and get as good a prospect for him. The inherent risk in a prospect is mitigated when moving an asset that is only signed for a season and not likely to be retained. I’m not sure the gamble is worth it with Skubal. The exception for me would be to get a haul, and use some combination of our current prospects to get a veteran like Bo Bichette and/or Vladdy, Jr. Edited July 19 by Tenacious D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 21 hours ago, Greg Pappas said: To compare Skubal's trade to Soto's isn't realistic. Just my two cents though. True but don't discount the $$..Skubal is making peanuts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 It's really not that hard. If some team is over amped to win this year and over pays then sure trade Skubal. If not just wait until the off season when you have almost all the teams to bargain with if you can't extend him. failing to make ideal just roll with him for two more shots at the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 I think Harris has revealed more of his thinking by continuing to draft prep players in 2024. It looks to me his target date is '27 or '28. If that is what he really thinks, then it is time to trade Skubal. If I got the right package, I would pull the trigger immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 45 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: I’m starting to flip flop on my stance on Skubal... OF: Parker Meadows, Kerry Carpenter, Max Clark, Justyn-Henry Malloy ... Dude... HOW in the world did you forget Riley Greene! 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: Bad example. Maton was sent down in July and DFA'ed over the offseason. Harris and Co. were actually pretty prompt in not doubling down there. He played in almost 100 games. And if he would have hit just a tiny bit more, he would have been here longer. It's not just Harris that acquires players and give then extra chances, it's most GMs. I just don't trust Harris' ability when it comes to finding talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, monkeytargets39 said: Agreed. Avila was the one who hung onto his marginal players way too long. Jacoby Jones, Mikie Mahtook, the Castros, Victor Reyes, Greyson Greiner, etc. Thousands of at bats to well below league average players who rarely showed signs that they could be consistent at this level. Harris hasn’t really done that yet. He’s already jettisoned Maton and Sands, and hasn’t shied away from things like Torkelson, Meadows, Baddoo and Manning going to Toledo for extended time frames. And then Wili Castro goes and becomes an All-Star. Squirrel finds nut. Clock is right twice a day...😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerNation Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, HeyAbbott said: I think Harris has revealed more of his thinking by continuing to draft prep players in 2024. It looks to me his target date is '27 or '28. If that is what he really thinks, then it is time to trade Skubal. If I got the right package, I would pull the trigger immediately. Nope. Just a really nonsense idea that is continually perpetuated. You draft the best players with no consideration for timelines. The bust rate of top draft picks is way too high to plan anything around them. There is also this thing in baseball where you can trade prospects for ML players. So those high school picks could actually contribute more to the ML roster in 2026 than a college player. Only an incredibly incompetent organization would draft based on hypothetical timelines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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