6/18/24 7:20PM Tigers @ Braves

[tiger2022]

So....now we are going to move a below average hitting 2nd baseman to 1st base?  

Keith would be the absolute worst offensive 1st baseman in the league.  He has a .579 OPS, 3 hrs, and is basically a really bad singles hitter.  He might get better, but his offense would still likely be bottom 3 or 4 in the league and he isnt going to help out on defense.  If this is the plan, why not just disband the team?

[Hongbit]

24 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

So....now we are going to move a below average hitting 2nd baseman to 1st base?  

Keith would be the absolute worst offensive 1st baseman in the league.  He has a .579 OPS, 3 hrs, and is basically a really bad singles hitter.  He might get better, but his offense would still likely be bottom 3 or 4 in the league and he isnt going to help out on defense.  If this is the plan, why not just disband the team?

 

[alex]

9 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

They need to try something different at the plate. Granted they have so many holes they're not gonna score a bunch of runs regularly but too many things need to go right for them to bunch together runs with the approach they have...

Yes, something needs to change. All IMHO. This one approach for all is not going to work for all. To me they are taking too many first pitches and guessing and taking good called third strikes too often as well. Yes, this can be said for all teams of course - but it seems all too often here and the first pitch taken for a strike has statistical backing and several have spoken about it (CPena, Gibby, CMo, etc.)

This next statement can apply for all teams of course as well - as players develop different. Some make it, some do not. There are many variables and some just need to 'be let go' to come to realizations as well. Yet, why is it that WCastro and JCandalerio are quite productive now? I think it got to the point that A.J. was tired of players hacking away (Goodrum, JJones, W & HCastro, etc.) and decided the whole approach needs to be re-done and SHarris likes the 'Control the Zone' aspect and the two went with it. I do like it - however, it takes time and WCastro is a good example. I can see this happening with ABaddoo perhaps later on with another team.

Point is, it may not be for each player if done extensively. Yet, all can benefit from some of this concept. Yet, if it keeps putting our players in P counts, then MLB Ps will and have exploiting it.

We have little power and speed (and the speed game is coming back a bit). I think SHarris needs to change some of what he seeks in players. Stop with all the 'defensive versatility' and 'work the count AAA' middle INF types. The FO needs to acquire some players from outside. A good FO can make trades. The SHarris core concept just before we do anything just buys time. Kick the can down the road again. I have said it many times. Identify talent, try to acquire even if it means giving up a prospect or two (again, does not have to be Top 5, each deadline proves this). Sweeten some trade pots. It is getting to that time of the year (the trade deadline).

A good FO is always looking to acquire talent. Not 'wait for a core' then magically all FAs for position of need show up and want to sign with Detroit - that is fantasy. Player acquisition can happen at anytime and often when least suspected. As I have asked - does this FO have the ability to negotiate Trades? If not then a total build through the draft is not realistic (yet, I agree it is the best way to get most of a team together).

Lets acquire 1-2 before the off season even begins.

[chasfh]

6 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

Move Keith to first base,,not sure how but just concede he can not play second base and move Jung back to second base in AAA since he can't play third, demote Badoo for Meadows and and move Riley back to LF and put Verling in RF, let Ibanez play second every day and Urshela 3B every day. Trade Canha, Flahtery and Kelly for best return possible aiming for third baseman if possible. Move Holten into the rotation and bring up Manning to pitch out of the bullpen. Give Malloy another 129 ABS at DH. Cut McKinstry. 

I don’t know whether we can get anything for Carson Kelly, but if we end up keeping him and Dingler comes up and shows us something, I think it’s just as likely we keep Kelly as keep Rogers, Dingler plays caddy for a year and takes over in 2026. That’s a fingers-crossed plan if I ever heard one.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, tiger2022 said:

So....now we are going to move a below average hitting 2nd baseman to 1st base?  

Keith would be the absolute worst offensive 1st baseman in the league.  He has a .579 OPS, 3 hrs, and is basically a really bad singles hitter.  He might get better, but his offense would still likely be bottom 3 or 4 in the league and he isnt going to help out on defense.  If this is the plan, why not just disband the team?

“Disband” as in the Tigers go out of business and get replaced in the league by, I don’t know, the Savannah Bananas or something? Is that what you mean by disband?

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Hongbit said:

 

I wonder how many other neighborhood names did they botch besides Lakeview?

[tiger2022]

20 minutes ago, chasfh said:

“Disband” as in the Tigers go out of business and get replaced in the league by, I don’t know, the Savannah Bananas or something? Is that what you mean by disband?

If the plan would be to put one of the worst hitting 2nd baseman in the league as your 1st baseman, a position that should provide your most power, then what the hell is the point of even constructing a roster?  I understand he could improve as a hitter, but there are actually guys who can hit .230 with 30 hrs a year.

[tiger2022]

26 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I don’t know whether we can get anything for Carson Kelly, but if we end up keeping him and Dingler comes up and shows us something, I think it’s just as likely we keep Kelly as keep Rogers, Dingler plays caddy for a year and takes over in 2026. That’s a fingers-crossed plan if I ever heard one.

You can never have enough decent catchers.  Plus if Dingler can actually hit, you will probably prefer he plays DH part of the time so he doesn't get injured constantly.  Having a bunch of guys that can catch 80 games a year is a good thing.

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, tiger2022 said:

If the plan would be to put one of the worst hitting 2nd baseman in the league as your 1st baseman, a position that should provide your most power, then what the hell is the point of even constructing a roster?  I understand he could improve as a hitter, but there are actually guys who can hit .230 with 30 hrs a year.

Do you think the Tigers are at the endpoint of their roster construction, meaning, this is the roster they expect to compete with now and in the future? Do you believe if this roster doesn't succeed they will blow it all up and start over? Do you think the front office and ownership are incompetent, or even uncaring, and that there's no hope for a winning franchise as long as they're around? I'm just trying to get a feel for whether you think we're in a temporary growing-pains situation moving toward a more permanent competitive situation, or whether you think this is as good as it's gonna get and that there's no hope as long as this crew in charge?

[chasfh]

6 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

You can never have enough decent catchers.  Plus if Dingler can actually hit, you will probably prefer he plays DH part of the time so he doesn't get injured constantly.  Having a bunch of guys that can catch 80 games a year is a good thing.

I don't see them keeping Kelly and Rogers and Dingler on the major league roster at the same time. Kelly is out of options; Rogers gets arb next year and I don't us signing and then optioning a $2-ish million catcher; and it would be unethical to basically scuttle Dingler's career by keeping him permanently in AAA just in case. One of them is going to go, and I'm wondering whether going to be Rogers instead of Kelly, because they are both 29, and Rogers is as good now as he's ever going to get. Absent reading anything about this, seems to me it could go either way.

[tiger2022]

I don't believe Harris is incompetent and he will do his best with the resources he is allocated.  I believe Ilitch is hands off but would prefer to spend less since he is going to make money either way.  I do believe he doesn't care if they win or not, but I also don't understand the business plan of all the day games.  I assume the franchise decides the game times.  And having so many day games has to hurt attendance and the money from concessions.  

I think roster construction is like a river flowing to the sea.  It is constantly changing and players either sink or swim on their way.  

I was responding to a poster who thought Keith should just shift to 1st and was having problems understanding why anyone would want to put a below average hitter at 2nd base into a premier hitting position.  

Players fail all the time and if these guys there now fail, there should be players coming up through the minors to get their shot.

I can't really say I am excited with Hinch as the manager.  I think his lineup construction and shifting players to different positions does not help things. I think he is pretty shady and thought he should have received a lifetime ban, but that doesn't matter now I suppose.  I don't know if the manager really impacts the bottom line that much.

 

[SoCalTiger]

4 hours ago, tiger2022 said:

So....now we are going to move a below average hitting 2nd baseman to 1st base?  

Keith would be the absolute worst offensive 1st baseman in the league.  He has a .579 OPS, 3 hrs, and is basically a really bad singles hitter.  He might get better, but his offense would still likely be bottom 3 or 4 in the league and he isnt going to help out on defense.  If this is the plan, why not just disband the team?

Well I am adjusting for the future by placing players in positions they can actually play but of course you're correct they have to hit as well. Keith still projects to be solid hitter with power and appears to not be able to play second in my opinion and does not have the arm to play third. I didn't give him 26 million but we can't be stubborn if he can't turn the double play or fields below average. But I know it won't happen because they have already made up their mind. 

[SoCalTiger]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I don’t know whether we can get anything for Carson Kelly, but if we end up keeping him and Dingler comes up and shows us something, I think it’s just as likely we keep Kelly as keep Rogers, Dingler plays caddy for a year and takes over in 2026. That’s a fingers-crossed plan if I ever heard one.

I thought Kelly was free agent next season and that's why I thought to trade him ? My bad. 

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, tiger2022 said:

I don't believe Harris is incompetent and he will do his best with the resources he is allocated.  I believe Ilitch is hands off but would prefer to spend less since he is going to make money either way.  I do believe he doesn't care if they win or not, but I also don't understand the business plan of all the day games.  I assume the franchise decides the game times.  And having so many day games has to hurt attendance and the money from concessions.  

I think roster construction is like a river flowing to the sea.  It is constantly changing and players either sink or swim on their way.  

I was responding to a poster who thought Keith should just shift to 1st and was having problems understanding why anyone would want to put a below average hitter at 2nd base into a premier hitting position.  

Players fail all the time and if these guys there now fail, there should be players coming up through the minors to get their shot.

I can't really say I am excited with Hinch as the manager.  I think his lineup construction and shifting players to different positions does not help things. I think he is pretty shady and thought he should have received a lifetime ban, but that doesn't matter now I suppose.  I don't know if the manager really impacts the bottom line that much.

 

I think Baby Doc has proven that he is willing to spend to win, and that he is hands off on the business side, which is almost the perfect combination for an owner. I am born again on him as an owner who will release the resources the front office needs to win, and a lot of that spending in the first year-plus of Harris's tenure is in fixing the rotted system of scouting, development, analytics and the like. We needed that.

So if you don't believe that Harris is incompetent, and that Baby Doc has established himself as willing to spend to win, then really, then I believe there's no cause to hammer them on today's roster construction, roster deployment, positional flexibility, etc., because it's not putting us in a position to win a ring right now. They are still trying to figure out who they have and who they can take forward with them, and if so, where they are best utilized. We are working toward the future, so making the playoffs is a nice-to-have in that situation, not a do-or-die goal, which is why we are not liquidating the top of our farm system to trade for rentals to make the third playoff spot, and also why we didn't offer dramatic overpays just to what they could out of this past winter's poor free agent market. This organization is simply not ready to do that yet. I can't imagine how pissed off fans would be if we had committed to five years and $100+ million to aging Matt Chapman, which is what I think it would have taken at minimum to get him to agree to Detroit, only to surround him with the rest of the team as currently constructed and we're still under .500.

As for Hinch: I think he was caught in the middle on the trashcan deal and became the fall guy for the players and the ownership, who were the engineers behind the thing and who Baseball had zero interest in punishing.

[tiger2022]

I don't know if ilitch wants to spend or not but he handed the organization over to a Matt Millen incompetent level GM in Avila.  

He set the franchise back to the bottom level it could be at.  

Hinch is responsible for what happened with the trash can just as much as cheaters like Bregman, Altuve, etc.  He was there, knew about it, and was supposedly in charge.  And whenever he talks about accountability, it rings as completely hollow and hypocritical.