Toddwert Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 45 minutes ago, buddha said: i dont understand how you guys watch this every day. this is brutal. I've stopped I just flip it on once and awhile .. then read what you guys say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleMike Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 5 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: He wouldn't be the first 1-1 who was a bust. It was just really bad luck/timing that he was the best player in the draft when the Tigers had the first pick. Oh well, don't compound the error by forcing him on the team for even longer. Cut your losses and move on. What confounds is that he hit 31 HRs last year as a 23-year old. This season makes no sense. I'll bet he eventually ekes out a decent career but probably won't not in Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) "We knew that the WhiteSox guy threw a plus changeup but we could not eliminate it." Edited June 22 by kdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 I don't expect us to go undefeated vs. the White Sux, but if we lose another game like the last, what, 4 games, offensively, shouldn't it be someone's ass? Hitting coach, something? Again, my plea, all season, has been go find a shortstop that can just come in an play for a short time and be decent (meaning hit .220 and don't be a butcher in the field). I heard some folks here say "They've got Kreidler" and I recoiled at that because he couldn't stay healthy, but he is awful. Just awful. They can't try to find a cast off who is better than McKinstry/Kreidler? I know, I know, evaluation year, but come on already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 And what the hell does this team owe McKinstry and Wentz anyway? Get rid of these guys. They're just giving up and as much as it's about Eval this year, that is setting the wrong tone for these young players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 13 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: And what the hell does this team owe McKinstry and Wentz anyway? Get rid of these guys. They're just giving up and as much as it's about Eval this year, that is setting the wrong tone for these young players. This is probably where their risk approach comes into play. No point giving up an asset when you aren't going to get a significant improvement right now. And they also don't care about this season..They want to know the 2025 status of Meadows, Tork, Carpy's injury, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 this team is really pushing my last damn nerve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 hours ago, buddha said: this game may suck, this team certainly sucks, but any time you get to see melissa theuriau, its been a good day. elle est magnifique. Tres bien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 hours ago, buddha said: i dont understand how you guys watch this every day. this is brutal. Now you see why we are the way we is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 It’s getting harder to keep the pig still for the lipstick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 hours ago, kdog said: I don’t think they have much in Toledo. When Faedo gets off rehab, he is going to replace Englert. If/when they trade Flaherty, it gets really thin assuming Manning Is the replacement. And who knows, maybe Foley gets moved as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Quote The Tigers came into the game with a plan to attack his fastball and then adjust to either his slider or changeup. He was spotting his fastball well enough not to get hurt with it. "We knew (the changeup) was part of his arsenal and he sells it," Hinch said. "There's no secrets up here. Still, it looked like we couldn't eliminate it. Similar to anyone who has a plus changeup or something they use a lot, your choice is to eliminate it and try to get on the heater or sit soft and try to direct the ball to the middle part of the field. "We did neither and that gave him a chance to get into his outing clean." I'm going to come back to this again. Beaten by a pitcher that didn't do quite what they expected of him. Stop expecting pitchers to conform to your scouting reports-- go into the game from the 1st AB looking to hit what they are throwing, not what you thought they should throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 I read it more as they just couldn’t get to the changeup, or to the fastball for that matter. That looks more like a competency problem than an approach problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 hour ago, chasfh said: I read it more as they just couldn’t get to the changeup, or to the fastball for that matter. That looks more like a competency problem than an approach problem. Wherever the blame lies, and it’s probably some to both, it’s got to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 hours ago, casimir said: Wherever the blame lies, and it’s probably some to both, it’s got to change. That’s what they’re working on. There’s really not much to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 9 hours ago, chasfh said: That’s what they’re working on. There’s really not much to work with. There might be truth right now that the variable is heavier on the players. But that responsibility is Harris'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Just now, casimir said: There might be truth right now that the variable is heavier on the players. But that responsibility is Harris'. Yes, Harris has the responsibility, and he’s working through it now, still trying to figure out which players are redeemable and which are not. There are a lot of detritus we have already let go since 2022, and there will be more. That process is going to take more than a couple months into the season, though. I’m guessing he doesn’t think it makes sense to start releasing guys en masse and run a revolving door of players through the team and releasing more guys if they can’t make it within a week. Guys like, say, Malloy, who some posters here were ready to cut bait on right away after clamoring all year for him to be promoted. Revolving door roster management would be chaotic, and that would make us all unhappy, too. It’s OK for our patience to thin dramatically with every loss, and that’s OK, because we have no responsibility for this organization. All we want is win, now, and wake me when that starts happening. That’s what fandom is about. It wouldn’t make any sense for Harris to operate the business like that, though. He has to be deliberate, thoughtful, and measured in how he guides the evolution of this team, and given where the organization stands, he has to prioritize long-term objectives over short-term objectives. We don’t have to like that, and we always can take a break and quit paying attention for a while any time we want. Harris doesn’t have that luxury. The tricky part for him is determining when the short term is so borked that we have to do something off-plan NOW to address it. Apparently, he doesn’t think we’re there just yet. But if this recent malaise keeps up much longer, I would bet we’re getting close to something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 hours ago, chasfh said: Yes, Harris has the responsibility, and he’s working through it now, still trying to figure out which players are redeemable and which are not. There are a lot of detritus we have already let go since 2022, and there will be more. That process is going to take more than a couple months into the season, though. I’m guessing he doesn’t think it makes sense to start releasing guys en masse and run a revolving door of players through the team and releasing more guys if they can’t make it within a week. Guys like, say, Malloy, who some posters here were ready to cut bait on right away after clamoring all year for him to be promoted. Revolving door roster management would be chaotic, and that would make us all unhappy, too. It’s OK for our patience to thin dramatically with every loss, and that’s OK, because we have no responsibility for this organization. All we want is win, now, and wake me when that starts happening. That’s what fandom is about. It wouldn’t make any sense for Harris to operate the business like that, though. He has to be deliberate, thoughtful, and measured in how he guides the evolution of this team, and given where the organization stands, he has to prioritize long-term objectives over short-term objectives. We don’t have to like that, and we always can take a break and quit paying attention for a while any time we want. Harris doesn’t have that luxury. The tricky part for him is determining when the short term is so borked that we have to do something off-plan NOW to address it. Apparently, he doesn’t think we’re there just yet. But if this recent malaise keeps up much longer, I would bet we’re getting close to something. I think we all assume Flaherty will be traded. I kind of wonder if there’s a market for him now. Is there a team that has enough value added by acquiring him now as opposed to closer to the trade deadline. There’s the obvious getting him before anyone else that might consider him at the deadline. But does he help his next team with the, what is it, 6 to 8 extra starts he might give his next team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 26 minutes ago, casimir said: I think we all assume Flaherty will be traded. I kind of wonder if there’s a market for him now. Is there a team that has enough value added by acquiring him now as opposed to closer to the trade deadline. There’s the obvious getting him before anyone else that might consider him at the deadline. But does he help his next team with the, what is it, 6 to 8 extra starts he might give his next team? Wouldn't the smart move for potential buyers be to wait as long as possible for the desperation to be as thick as pea soup and then offer the Tigers a bag of balls for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 3 hours ago, chasfh said: The tricky part for him is determining when the short term is so borked that we have to do something off-plan NOW to address it. Or as noted earlier, this the kind of thing where it's the owner who may say "I know you have your plans but you have to show some movement". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Buyers will wait for more sellers to enter the market and get a better idea who really has "it" going in 2024. Sellers will wait to avoid the pitch forks from their fans and alienation from their players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 6 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said: Wouldn't the smart move for potential buyers be to wait as long as possible for the desperation to be as thick as pea soup and then offer the Tigers a bag of balls for him? I don’t know. San Diego acquired Arraez pretty early this season. Although that’s also the Marlins, so bold & italicized asterisk on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Or as noted earlier, this the kind of thing where it's the owner who may say "I know you have your plans but you have to show some movement". I have "no clue" but I get a sense that Chris I is a very hands off owner so that might not happen in Detroit unfortunately. He did sit through the Braves series in Atlanta but then I read he was there to visit an old college buddy not scout his team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 10 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Or as noted earlier, this the kind of thing where it's the owner who may say "I know you have your plans but you have to show some movement". This strikes me not so much as an "or" as it does as a restatement of what you quoted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 9 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: Buyers will wait for more sellers to enter the market and get a better idea who really has "it" going in 2024. Sellers will wait to avoid the pitch forks from their fans and alienation from their players. The other thing with Flaherty specifically is the health question. He had a back thing earlier this year and a rash of shoulder injuries from a couple years ago. I don't think any team is going to pull the trigger until as close to July 30 as they can get. I don't think the Tigers are going to be offered a bag of balls for Flaherty unless the entire seller's side of the trade market collapses, which I don't even know how that happens because there will be more buyers than sellers. (There is even some question about whether the Tigers will be buyers.) And even if by some weird reason the market were to collpase, I bet 10 to 1 that Harris would hang onto Flaherty versus accepting a bag of balls. This will not be a salary dump mandate like Verlander was. Flaherty would be the #2 SP on the market, so if we don't get solid offers for him, then no one is getting solid offers for anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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