Sports_Freak Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 hours ago, SeattleMike said: Thought I read recently that he was beginning baseball activities this week. Perhaps he'll be back right after the All-Star break, if not sooner. Carp is starting baseball activities tomorrow. They say he should be back in Detroit by late July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 6 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: I don't want a hitter who hits 25 home runs a year but has a very low batting average or on base percentage. It's why I was never impressed with Torkelson. His home runs are nice but he hasn't proven to be the type of player to put the team on his back and carry them. Likewise I don't want a punch and Judy type hitter who has a good average but no power. Good luck in this day and age trying to score consistently by stringing together 3 singles in a row against pitchers who may give up 5 or 6 hits the entire game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: Likewise I don't want a punch and Judy type hitter who has a good average but no power. Good luck in this day and age trying to score consistently by stringing together 3 singles in a row against pitchers who may give up 5 or 6 hits the entire game. It depends where they hit. Leadoff hitters getting on base consistently have their place. Home run hitters need guys on base! 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I think k rate measures contact skill better than batting average and it also stabilizes faster. I'd never toss any stat, but batting average doesn't have a lot of use for me unless we are talking about runners on base splits. Sure - bit everything tells you something. K rate can also be deceptive if taken too simply. As I noted yesterday, Riley has a higher K rate than most of the current Tigers roster but makes a lot more useful contact. Edited June 24 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 23 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Everything tells you something. K rate can also be deceptive if taken too simply. As I noted yesterday, Riley has a higher K rate than most of the current Tigers roster but makes a lot more useful contact. Right, K rate only measures rate of contact. It dosn't say anything about power or hard contact. I am not sure that batting average measures anything in particular. It is just familiar stat from our childhood. There are other measures which tell us more about specific batting skills than batting average. If anything, batting average is a mish mash of both contact and type of contact and you can't isolate any skill by just looking at batting average. Edited June 24 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 hours ago, Tenacious D said: I don’t think we’ll be seeing Carpenter any time soon. And Canha can be moved if there is any market for him. Malloy looks likely to get demoted for Parker. I would rather Baddoo go down than Malloy. I know Malloy is not much in the field... But I'd rather give him more run. I feel like there's nothing else to learn about Baddoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 hours ago, SoCalTiger said: Keith will hit and probably enough to play first base if his doesn’t improve. And I hope they keep Urshela next year instead of McStinky. At least until we have a proven third baseman. Speaking of Keith at first, I started wondering today whether it would make any sense to package Tork in a deadline deal? Like, Flaherty and Tork for something better than just Flaherty? Would that goose the return enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: If you strictly platoon young players out of the gate, you guarantee the inability to hit same side pitching will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I am mildly surprised that a team supposedly committed to development would take such a short term gain at the risk of long term loss approach. But if you follow the numbers to win today, that's where you end up. Is this true? It's repeated here and elsewhere as if it is, but are we sure it is true? Has anybody studied it with any rigor? Especially today with different training mechanisms and different ways to track swing path and pitch recognition. As for Kreidler, if he ends up not being able to establish a major league role because he can't hit RHB, that is because he just isn't a good hitter and wasn't really ever cut out for an every day role. FWIW, he always had extreme platoon splits in the minors, so he had his chances there. He's not the type of guy who don't platoon because you are worried about his long term role (if that effect even exists) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: The next dilemma is what to do with the OF. Perez deserves to stay but it looks like Parker will be back. Gio is so good at 3B you're not going to give Vierling as much time there as maybe was planned in the off-season, but he's your 2nd best hitter so that means he plays more OF so you will have Parker, Green, Perez, Vierling and then you get Carpenter back from the DL, plus Canha rotating through DH. Urshela to SS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 8 hours ago, Tigermojo said: Incredible play by Urshela. Check the replay if you missed it. Urshela had quite the defensive game. It was one of those games that was brought up about Willie Mays. He might have had an 0fer in the hitting line, but he gave you something somewhere else to make you pause and take notice. Urshela had that twice in the first two innings today. He looks effortless sometimes. I don't know if he has the ability to help at SS anymore. But he only has to be better than McKinstry/Kreidler at the moment, so the bar isn't high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I hope Ryan Kreidler is saving all his big league money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Is this true? It's repeated here and elsewhere as if it is, but are we sure it is true? Has anybody studied it with any rigor? Especially today with different training mechanisms and different ways to track swing path and pitch recognition. I'm not sure how you could ever do any kind of double blind study with validity. We do know that almost every left hander that does hit LHP tells a story of having drilled against it to a degree beyond what appeared to be any reason at the time so I think you can say with some confidence that you won't succeed if you don' try, but proving that trying improves the odds of succeeding across a wide cohort would not be easy. You could do the inverse - track whether guys that got put into platoon service got even worse against LHP when they when back to playing everyday, but I'm not sure that's the quite the same question as the developmental one. Edited June 24 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 41 minutes ago, chasfh said: Speaking of Keith at first, I started wondering today whether it would make any sense to package Tork in a deadline deal? Like, Flaherty and Tork for something better than just Flaherty? Would that goose the return enough? I think those guys are two different animals and therefore not tradeable together... Flaherty is hot, and contenders will be hot for him. Contenders will have no interest in Tork whatsoever (IMO). If you want to goose a Flaherty trade that means Flaherty + Canha, or Kelly, or some other useful piece that a contender would want. That's not Tork. Maybe, + a reliever? Tork is for a rebuilding team that wants to take a chance on getting something more out of him than we have. A team that has a blocked guy or struggling prospects of their own. "Start-over" guys, or "second chance guys" if you will. That means Tork, and/or Baddoo/(Malloy?), and/or one of many of our pitchers... For guys that are struggling in their system. (Whoever that team may be...). Just my 2 cents... Edited June 24 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Are we trading Tork because we have many other 1B options or his huge salary? I don’t think it would be in our best interests to trade low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 hours ago, chasfh said: Speaking of Keith at first, I started wondering today whether it would make any sense to package Tork in a deadline deal? Like, Flaherty and Tork for something better than just Flaherty? Would that goose the return enough? Most of the stuff I read suggests separate deals net a bigger return. Plus Flaherty would appeal to winners and Tork to rebuilders but having said that say you want Baltimore's Colby Mayo you might get him if you add Tork since it replenishes their minors. Can't believe I mentioned Tork in that way. Just shows how much he has disappointed. A health Carp and producing Tork sure would change our discussions though ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 7 hours ago, SoCalTiger said: Most of the stuff I read suggests separate deals net a bigger return. Plus Flaherty would appeal to winners and Tork to rebuilders but having said that say you want Baltimore's Colby Mayo you might get him if you add Tork since it replenishes their minors. Can't believe I mentioned Tork in that way. Just shows how much he has disappointed. A health Carp and producing Tork sure would change our discussions though ? Yeah, i would think the chances of our trading Tork would be in the low single digits. I was just throwing it out there as an out-of-the-box idea. One of the problems with trading Tork now would be the message it would send to other young players: if Tork, a 1/1 pick just a few years ago, can be traded off by this front office, it could happen to anyone. If no one, not even a generational hitting talent like Tork, is safe, then why bother giving your heart and soul to this team? That would work completely counter to building the kind of selfless team-first environment Harris says he wants to build here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I think Malloy is pretty thrilled that the Tigers sent Tork to Toledo and did not just keep running him out there in Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, RatkoVarda said: I think Malloy is pretty thrilled that the Tigers sent Tork to Toledo and did not just keep running him out there in Detroit. then again, Malloy's joy may also be short lived... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 10 hours ago, Tenacious D said: Are we trading Tork because we have many other 1B options or his huge salary? I don’t think it would be in our best interests to trade low. 100% Need to wait him out at least through mid-way next year to see if the light bulb can go on with him. After that... I'm more open to considering a struggling player for struggling player swap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, chasfh said: ... One of the problems with trading Tork now would be the message it would send to other young players: if Tork, a 1/1 pick just a few years ago, can be traded off by this front office, it could happen to anyone. If no one, not even a generational hitting talent like Tork, is safe, then why bother giving your heart and soul to this team? That would work completely counter to building the kind of selfless team-first environment Harris says he wants to build here. I would think it would send the EXACT OPPOSITE message. "If you don't take this job/ sport 100% seriously with 100% dedication, you might fail just as easily as 1-1 Tork did. Please give it your all." I don't think most of these kids even need this message because I am guessing MOST of them will do absolutely anything/ everything to make it to The Show. Some guys... no message will sink in. Sort of like Tork: it seems like he's been too close-minded to let any kind of messaging sink in. Well... Toledo is the message. But for 1 or 2 guys... maybe it would sink in. "Give it your all, no matter the talent level, it's the only way to succeed." That seems like the correct message to me. IMO. I don't see how any prospect would ever say "Oh, they traded Tork, I don't care anymore." I mean, seriously, who would think/ act like that? That seems just way too far in outer space to have any kind of validity. IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 4 hours ago, chasfh said: Yeah, i would think the chances of our trading Tork would be in the low single digits. I was just throwing it out there as an out-of-the-box idea. One of the problems with trading Tork now would be the message it would send to other young players: if Tork, a 1/1 pick just a few years ago, can be traded off by this front office, it could happen to anyone. If no one, not even a generational hitting talent like Tork, is safe, then why bother giving your heart and soul to this team? That would work completely counter to building the kind of selfless team-first environment Harris says he wants to build here. Tork is a generational hitting talent? Or were you being sarcastic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said: Tork is a generational hitting talent? Or were you being sarcastic? I don't think executives in the game share the same prejudice borne of disappointment that you and others here have about Tork. I'm fairly certain they think of him as a massive hitting talent who's simply flailing about in Detroit. The guy set all kinds of records in college. I'd bet there are at least a dozen other organizations that think they can fix him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 49 minutes ago, chasfh said: I don't think executives in the game share the same prejudice borne of disappointment that you and others here have about Tork. I'm fairly certain they think of him as a massive hitting talent who's simply flailing about in Detroit. The guy set all kinds of records in college. I'd bet there are at least a dozen other organizations that think they can fix him. Agree with that. And the fact he hit 30 last year shows he's capable. I wonder how often teams talk with each other in regards to how they work with players. Like talking shop. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 6 hours ago, chasfh said: I don't think executives in the game share the same prejudice borne of disappointment that you and others here have about Tork. I'm fairly certain they think of him as a massive hitting talent who's simply flailing about in Detroit. The guy set all kinds of records in college. I'd bet there are at least a dozen other organizations that think they can fix him. I would take that bet. Yes, he's still young but he's so one-dimensional that it's hard to see any value. With that being said, he really is better than a few players in Detroit right now. But that's a low bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 18 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: I would take that bet. Yes, he's still young but he's so one-dimensional that it's hard to see any value. With that being said, he really is better than a few players in Detroit right now. But that's a low bar. I have not seen anything national yet suggesting Tork is a dead loss. The only I’ve seen that expressed is here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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