Tigers Nearing Deal With Javier Baez

[Tenacious D]

36 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

No.

That's why they have Paredes. And I am pretty certain Paredes will make the team out of ST...

I think Paredes is playing 2B, if Tork doesn’t make the team out of ST.

[sabretooth]

41 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

In terms of 5th starter options left on the market, does Grienke have enough left in the tank or is he spent at this point?

I would be happy enough with Kikuchi, Smyly, Duffy, or Archer...Grienke seems gassed.

[gehringer_2]

54 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I think Paredes is playing 2B, if Tork doesn’t make the team out of ST.

Tork probably has a higher probability of making the team out of ST than Paredes. And Clemens is probably ahead of Paredes him on the 2B depth chart now. Isaac hasn't been able to get his bat straightened out at all since his Mexican league run last winter.

[bobrob2004]

23 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Tork probably has a higher probability of making the team out of ST than Paredes. And Clemens is probably ahead of Paredes him on the 2B depth chart now. Isaac hasn't been able to get his bat straightened out at all since his Mexican league run last winter.

Paredes has flexibility, being able to play both 2B and 3B.  Hinch likes players who can play multiple positions.  I think Paredes makes the team out of ST, even if Tork makes the team.

Bench:

Harald Castro

Victor Reyes and/or Derek Hill

Isaac Paredes

Eric Haase    

I don't think Willi Castro makes the team.  Do the Tigers take 3 catchers, including Haase? Is the roster size still 26?  Will they take an extra position player or pitcher? 

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Tork probably has a higher probability of making the team out of ST than Paredes. And Clemens is probably ahead of Paredes him on the 2B depth chart now. Isaac hasn't been able to get his bat straightened out at all since his Mexican league run last winter.

Paredes is still younger than both Tork and Clemens.  Maybe that’s not super important, but at 22, I suspect  they aren’t ready to give up on him.  His low K, high BB % make him a bit of a rarity.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Tenacious D

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I think Paredes is playing 2B, if Tork doesn’t make the team out of ST.

Or Harold Castor and Schoop will be splitting 1st and 2nd. Paredes will have to hit to get to Det. He might, but he didn't do much in his shot in Det, though he did finish well right at the end in Toledo. So unless he tears up ST, I think they are going to want to see him prove something more extended in Toledo.

Edited December 2, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Tenacious D]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

Or Harold Castor and Schoop will be splitting 1st and 2nd. Paredes will have to hit to get to Det. He might, but he didn't finish well so unless he tears up ST, I think they are going to want to see him prove something in Toledo.

Perhaps, but this might be his best and only window to show what he can do at the ML level.  Once Tork comes up, I think the starting infield will be Tork, Schoop, Baez and Candy.  Not a lot of AB’s will be available in the infield.

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Perhaps, but this might be his best and only window to show what he can do at the ML level.  Once Tork comes up, I think the starting infield will be Tork, Schoop, Baez and Candy.  Not a lot of AB’s will be available in the infield.

So the question will be: Have the Tigers transitioned away from development mode where they are willing to play not their best roster, with guys at the MLB level as tryouts, to professional competition mode where the best players are on the field and they are actually competing to win as many games as they can starting from game one.

[gehringer_2]

5 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

I don't think Willi Castro makes the team. 

Can't see how. And an additional problem for W Castro is that there may not be a whole lot of playing time for him at SS in Toledo either as Kreidler  probably has a higher system priority now.

[casimir]

I'd look at Greinke.  He pitched 170 innings last season, 30 starts.  Was he gassed?  Maybe.  Could it have been because of the shortened COVID season before last season?  Seems reasonable.  Can the Tigers tailor his work load to last throughout 2022 and into the playoffs?  I like the brain trust that would be in charge of those decisions.

MLB Trade Rumors write up, just for fun:

Quote

 

40.  Zack Greinke.  One year, $15MM.

TD: Nationals / SA: Cardinals / AF: Red Sox

Still putting the finishing touches on a Hall of Fame resume, Greinke’s season ERA stood at 3.41 as late as August 23rd.  He’d make only four more regular season appearances for the Astros, allowing 20 earned runs in 15 1/3 innings.  Greinke’s season and perhaps Astros career ended on a high note, with four scoreless innings to start off Game 4 of the World Series.

In his 18-year career with the Royals, Brewers, Angels, Dodgers, Diamondbacks, and Astros, Greinke has one Cy Young award and votes in four other seasons.  He’s always had impeccable control, though his strikeout rate tumbled down to 17.2% this year.  The 38-year-old righty is enigmatic, thoughtful, and hilarious, and would likely be signed for his clubhouse presence as much as for his work on the mound.  First, we have to see whether Greinke even wants to continue pitching.

 

 

[casimir]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Can't see how. And an additional problem for W Castro is that there may not be a whole lot of playing time for him at SS in Toledo either as Kreidler  probably has a higher system priority now.

I think the writing was on the wall for CastroW when he couldn't get playing time at SS in Detroit this season.

Now, if both Kreidler & CastroW are indeed at Toledo simultaneously, they can split time at SS and/or other positions as well.  There aren't any other SSs to consider in the higher minors, certainly not playing at AAA.  If Kreidler is already accomplished as a SS, let him work around 2B & 3B as well.  If his bat is worthy of it, he can be a good piece off of the bench or injury replacement in Detroit.  But I would expect a bit of water finding its level.  I think the key with Kreidler is where do his BB/SO trend to, AA (32/119) or AAA (24/39)?

[Archie]

9 minutes ago, casimir said:

I think the writing was on the wall for CastroW when he couldn't get playing time at SS in Detroit this season.

Now, if both Kreidler & CastroW are indeed at Toledo simultaneously, they can split time at SS and/or other positions as well.  There aren't any other SSs to consider in the higher minors, certainly not playing at AAA.  If Kreidler is already accomplished as a SS, let him work around 2B & 3B as well.  If his bat is worthy of it, he can be a good piece off of the bench or injury replacement in Detroit.  But I would expect a bit of water finding its level.  I think the key with Kreidler is where do his BB/SO trend to, AA (32/119) or AAA (24/39)?

I agree that WCastro starts out in Toledo unless he kills it it ST.  I think he will transition to mainly OF in Toledo. 

[alex]

7 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Perhaps, but this might be his best and only window to show what he can do at the ML level.  Once Tork comes up, I think the starting infield will be Tork, Schoop, Baez and Candy.  Not a lot of AB’s will be available in the infield.

This is true on paper - but this day and age injuries are more prevalent and IL/DL stints are used to team & player advantage (15 days to 10 days) more than ever. The days of teams with 7-8 position players playing in 150+ games are history as are 3-4 SPs on a team that throw 200+ innings (heck 180 for that matter). It just is, and for various reasons - hence quality depth seems 'Very' important.

[Cruzer1]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

I'd look at Greinke.  He pitched 170 innings last season, 30 starts.  Was he gassed?  Maybe.  Could it have been because of the shortened COVID season before last season?  Seems reasonable.  Can the Tigers tailor his work load to last throughout 2022 and into the playoffs?  I like the brain trust that would be in charge of those decisions.

MLB Trade Rumors write up, just for fun:

 

Grienke's arm is shot, can't throw 90 anymore. Hard pass.

[diaspora04]

Has the deal been announced?  I do not see any coverage on detroittigers.com, but perhaps the lockout has something to do with it.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Cruzer1 said:

Grienke's arm is shot, can't throw 90 anymore. Hard pass.

Did he throw 90 last season at all?  Did it just completely fall apart during the season or did he never have it?

How's his left arm?

[bobrob2004]

2 hours ago, alex said:

This is true on paper - but this day and age injuries are more prevalent and IL/DL stints are used to team & player advantage (15 days to 10 days) more than ever. The days of teams with 7-8 position players playing in 150+ games are history as are 3-4 SPs on a team that throw 200+ innings (heck 180 for that matter). It just is, and for various reasons - hence quality depth seems 'Very' important.

In 2021, there were 4 pitchers who threw 200+ innings.  In 2011, there were 39.  I can't believe how much the workload of pitchers has fallen in the last 10 years.  

[romad1]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Did he throw 90 last season at all?  Did it just completely fall apart during the season or did he never have it?

How's his left arm?

Is Grienke driving the bus? 

[chasfh]

52 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

In 2021, there were 4 pitchers who threw 200+ innings.  In 2011, there were 39.  I can't believe how much the workload of pitchers has fallen in the last 10 years.  

It's because of the jackrabbit ball. Pitchers are dreadfully afraid of giving up home runs, the worst outcome for them, so they put 100% on every single pitch, from the very first pitch of every game, for the sole purpose of inducing swing and miss. This is why they've been working on maximizing velocity and maximizing movement for at least the past decade and a half, which puts strain on the shoulder, arm and elbow and leads not only to more injuries over the season, but to shorter outings during games because they get completely gassed on fewer pitches and innings. As long as the jackrabbit ball exists and all nine slots in the order can take the ball out of the park, the days of pitchers pacing themselves and laying up on down-the-order batters are over.

Deaden the ball, and you'll see longer pitcher outings, fewer injuries, and more 200+-inning seasons.

[gehringer_2]

59 minutes ago, chasfh said:

It's because of the jackrabbit ball. Pitchers are dreadfully afraid of giving up home runs, the worst outcome for them, so they put 100% on every single pitch, from the very first pitch of every game, for the sole purpose of inducing swing and miss. This is why they've been working on maximizing velocity and maximizing movement for at least the past decade and a half, which puts strain on the shoulder, arm and elbow and leads not only to more injuries over the season, but to shorter outings during games because they get completely gassed on fewer pitches and innings. As long as the jackrabbit ball exists and all nine slots in the order can take the ball out of the park, the days of pitchers pacing themselves and laying up on down-the-order batters are over.

Deaden the ball, and you'll see longer pitcher outings, fewer injuries, and more 200+-inning seasons.

yeah, it's pretty straightforward. The other aspect that I don't think gets stressed enough is that it's not only max effort, it's max breaking ball effort. More guys throwing more hard sliders or splits because they can't be prefect enough even with a decent movement fastball to keep the ball in the park.

Edited December 2, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Jim Cowan]

Everything that is wrong with baseball right now is caused by the ball.  Go back to the 1985 ball.  (Not 1987).

[davidsb623]

2 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

In 2021, there were 4 pitchers who threw 200+ innings.  In 2011, there were 39.  I can't believe how much the workload of pitchers has fallen in the last 10 years.  

There were 15 pitchers in 2019 that had 200+ innings.  2021 was an aberration because of the lack of innings pitched in 2020. Pitch counts are driving the reduced innings.   The number one reason for less innings (pitches) is the teams investment into pitchers.  They do not want them to throw too much and hurt their $10-40M a year investment.  All other issues are arbitrary.  

[chasfh]

I would think that if a team investing $10-$40 million in a pitcher has any say, they would want them throwing as many innings as possible.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Everything that is wrong with baseball right now is caused by the ball.  Go back to the 1985 ball.  (Not 1987).

And flip up sunglasses for fielders.

[Cruzer1]

10 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

In 2021, there were 4 pitchers who threw 200+ innings.  In 2011, there were 39.  I can't believe how much the workload of pitchers has fallen in the last 10 years.  

2020 has a lot to do with that.