MLB Possibly open to allowing trading of Draft Picks

[AlaskanTigersFan]

I thought this warranted a new thread so it doesn't get lost. This would be AMAZING! It's about stinking time.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/07/rob-manfred-hints-at-changes-to-rules-on-trading-draft-picks.html

[oblong]

I think it would be cool and it makes sense and helps, I think, the smaller teams.  But I also think that it would become something that quickly dies down.  Meaning.... the nature of these picks is so random and even the top picks are not yet impact players that teams may not be so willing to make deals after awhile.

 

[Tenacious D]

Would only help with fan interest and engagement.  

[gehringer_2]

I can't prove it, but I have the opposite reaction to Robs.  I'm going to guess that that in the end it would just end up increasing the rich teams' already large advantages.

Edited July 17 by gehringer_2

[1776]

On an unrelated note, Manfred says that MLB is considering experimenting with some rendition of the ABS in the majors next year.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

8 minutes ago, 1776 said:

On an unrelated note, Manfred says that MLB is considering experimenting with some rendition of the ABS in the majors next year.

Goodness I hope not. I was at Armando Galleraga's Perfect Non-perfect game. Umps blowing calls is part of the game. Especially with Balls and Strikes.

Now I saw a clip where Paul Skenes was able to challenge Balls/Strikes in the minors by Jomboy. THAT would be cool in the majors. If the pitchers wrong, it should count as a balk or something crazy though to limit the challenges. 

[Hongbit]

1 minute ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Goodness I hope not. I was at Armando Galleraga's Perfect Non-perfect game. Umps blowing calls is part of the game. Especially with Balls and Strikes.

Now I saw a clip where Paul Skenes was able to challenge Balls/Strikes in the minors by Jomboy. THAT would be cool in the majors. If the pitchers wrong, it should count as a balk or something crazy though to limit the challenges. 

Im hoping this was just you taking an opportunity to humble brag that you were at that game.   Poor umpiring and the ump show that follows has gotten completely out of control.  Way beyond just an accepted part of the game.   These guys are TERRIBLE and miss multiple calls every game.  It’s practically an EPIDEMIC.   Make it stop please!!!!

[1776]

15 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Now I saw a clip where Paul Skenes was able to challenge Balls/Strikes in the minors by Jomboy. THAT would be cool in the majors. If the pitchers wrong, it should count as a balk or something crazy though to limit the challenges. 

My impression of your comment leads me to believe you’ve not attended a AAA game the last two years. To limit the challenges currently in AAA, the PCL is allowed three challenges and the IL is permitted two challenges. Charging a pitcher with a balk is not part of the conversation. 
I’m an old timer by most definitions and I am 100% for some rendition of an ABS/Challenge System. 
 

 

[AlaskanTigersFan]

2 hours ago, 1776 said:

My impression of your comment leads me to believe you’ve not attended a AAA game the last two years. To limit the challenges currently in AAA, the PCL is allowed three challenges and the IL is permitted two challenges. Charging a pitcher with a balk is not part of the conversation. 
I’m an old timer by most definitions and I am 100% for some rendition of an ABS/Challenge System. 
 

 

Nope, I have not been to a AAA game. Thank you for clarifying. 

[monkeytargets39]

The draft is such a crapshoot for the most part that I wouldn’t really want to give much established talent up for a draft pick.  Maybe if we are talking a top 5 pick in a loaded class or something.  Very hard to quantify value of a draft pick in baseball compared to football or basketball.  So much can go wrong with development and injuries.

Edited July 20 by monkeytargets39

[1984Echoes]

7 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

The draft is such a crapshoot for the most part that I wouldn’t really want to give much established talent up for a draft pick.  Maybe if we are talking a top 5 pick in a loaded class or something.  Very hard to quantify value of a draft pick in baseball compared to football or basketball.  So much can go wrong with development and injuries.

Here's the flipside:

The buyers of talent (and traders of draft picks) will be the teams at the very top... which MOSTLY is the Yankees/ Dodgers type... Lets say Cleveland rises to the top... they're not going to do this.

But the Yankees and Dodgers would (in this imagined scenario): And they both want Flaherty. They both offer two prospects that we really like/ want. And also two high-octane arms with no control as lottery tickets (Dodgers) or 2025 and 2026 1st round picks (Yankees, and per your description, just as much lottery tickets as the two Dodgers lottery guys... especially because they'll be at the END of the first round, so not top 10 picks...).

All things else being equal: which package do you choose?

I'm of a mind to accept two Yankees picks and trust Harris and our developmental team to uncover to gems. Better than the two Dodgers high-octane arms with no control.

IMO.

[monkeytargets39]

29 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Here's the flipside:

The buyers of talent (and traders of draft picks) will be the teams at the very top... which MOSTLY is the Yankees/ Dodgers type... Lets say Cleveland rises to the top... they're not going to do this.

But the Yankees and Dodgers would (in this imagined scenario): And they both want Flaherty. They both offer two prospects that we really like/ want. And also two high-octane arms with no control as lottery tickets (Dodgers) or 2025 and 2026 1st round picks (Yankees, and per your description, just as much lottery tickets as the two Dodgers lottery guys... especially because they'll be at the END of the first round, so not top 10 picks...).

All things else being equal: which package do you choose?

I'm of a mind to accept two Yankees picks and trust Harris and our developmental team to uncover to gems. Better than the two Dodgers high-octane arms with no control.

IMO.

Personally I’d rather not trade Flaherty unless we know what we are getting and it’s something we would value in return.  The team acquiring Flaherty is the one desperate to improve their team immediately and they also know exactly what they’re getting with him.  We should have adequate leverage in the situation as the sellers—not just looking to give him away for whatever the other team feels like giving us.

Edited July 20 by monkeytargets39

[casimir]

On 7/17/2024 at 4:54 PM, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Goodness I hope not. I was at Armando Galleraga's Perfect Non-perfect game. Umps blowing calls is part of the game. Especially with Balls and Strikes.

Now I saw a clip where Paul Skenes was able to challenge Balls/Strikes in the minors by Jomboy. THAT would be cool in the majors. If the pitchers wrong, it should count as a balk or something crazy though to limit the challenges. 

I prefer the game is called correctly.  The AAA ball/strike challenge system has limited pitches to challenge.  I think it is 3 per game, but I'm not sure if there are caveat's to that (ie, retained challenge).  I am pretty sure it is penalty free.  If the call is challenged and upheld, play moves along.  And from what I have seen, its a quick process.  Pat the top of your head to challenge, the pitch is reviewed, the determination is broadcast on the scoreboard, and we move along.  Honestly, the time it takes for that to happen is quite short compared to the challenges already in place in MLB.  Maybe its as long as a pre pitch clock batter getting out of the box to scratch himself, adjust his batting gloves, knock dirt out of his cleats, and get back into the box.

[Edman85]

On 7/17/2024 at 11:14 AM, Tenacious D said:

Would only help with fan interest and engagement.  

On the contrary, if one team's farm is full and they sell off all their picks, it could have the reverse effect.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Personally I’d rather not trade Flaherty unless we know what we are getting and it’s something we would value in return.  The team acquiring Flaherty is the one desperate to improve their team immediately and they also know exactly what they’re getting with him.  We should have adequate leverage in the situation as the sellers—not just looking to give him away for whatever the other team feels like giving us.

You didn't read what I wrote.

"Two prospects EACH that we REALLY like, plus two other lottery tickets for a total of a 4-1 return."

I paraphrased... but that's what I said..

[Tenacious D]

3 hours ago, Edman85 said:

On the contrary, if one team's farm is full and they sell off all their picks, it could have the reverse effect.

Maybe for that one team, but in general, fans would likely tune in more if you thought your team could trade or acquire more picks.  For example, if your team drafts 5th, and make their selection, you can basically tune out until the next round.  If teams can trade their picks, it’s possible they could acquire another 1st rounder. Works well in the NFL and NBA.

[1984Echoes]

12 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Maybe for that one team, but in general, fans would likely tune in more if you thought your team could trade or acquire more picks.  For example, if your team drafts 5th, and make their selection, you can basically tune out until the next round.  If teams can trade their picks, it’s possible they could acquire another 1st rounder. Works well in the NFL and NBA.

The tricky part of that is the draft bonus pool that is allotted to each pick.

You can't just trade picks, you also have to trade the value of draft pool assigned to it.

I think that makes draft picks-for-draft picks trading a bit harder. I'm not certain how that would work out. Player trades (as I outlined above) I could see with the pick and value going to the new team.

Same with during the draft: Cubs just traded their 2025 3rd round pick (during the draft) to the Tigers for Joey Wentz, we get the pick and Bonus Pool value; they get Wentz (awesome deal!!!)

To make a pick-for-picks trade... Are teams hesitant because the dollars need to be in alignment? What if there needs to be an overpay in order to move up in a draft (just for example) with unequal values per each side?

Just some difficulties there I'm thinking...

A player for a pick seems a little more straight forward: Team (A) gets a player it needs/ wants. Team (B) gets a pick and the assigned bonus pool in return for said traded player.

Just thinking out loud...

[Edman85]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

Maybe for that one team, but in general, fans would likely tune in more if you thought your team could trade or acquire more picks.  For example, if your team drafts 5th, and make their selection, you can basically tune out until the next round.  If teams can trade their picks, it’s possible they could acquire another 1st rounder. Works well in the NFL and NBA.

Check out Friday's Effectively Wild. Eric Longenhagen, who thinks long and hard about the draft more than anybody on this board combined (including Micro), expressed doubt about how pick trading would be abused by teams.

You aren't wrong, but I also wonder if MLB wouldn't make it so that pick trades can only be done pre-draft, which is how the limited trading works now.

[monkeytargets39]

5 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

You didn't read what I wrote.

"Two prospects EACH that we REALLY like, plus two other lottery tickets for a total of a 4-1 return."

I paraphrased... but that's what I said..

My point was that I wouldn’t want the picks—I’d rather generate the deal around what know we would get.  Those draft picks are likely going to be towards the end of the first round and the further you go down, the less likely you are to get someone who will make it to the majors.  Even if we take the two minor leaguers with control issues, at least we have data points on them and they’ve made it seemingly to some point in the top few levels of the majors.

 

plus we are assuming that the players we draft even end up signing with us if we go that route.

[1984Echoes]

I would just guess...

That a GM and his drafting/ developmental team would... bet on themselves. They would take the draft picks.

You might not like the unknown and prefer known data points... But I'm guessing MOST GM's would want to take swings themselves in the draft, rather then known, but also flawed, players. Unless they are certain they could fix the flawed players with no problems whatsoever. But to me that would be a hard sell. Someone who has no control or cannot hit off-speed usually ends up as being someone who has... no control. Or can't hit the curveball. So to speak.