LOCKOUT '22: When will we see baseball again?

[Cruzer1]

I got an email from Bank of America. They are calling a cease and desist on all MLB debit cards, and I will have to switch my Detroit Tigers style card to a plain one, and I must activate the new card as soon as I get it. I f'ing hate Manfred, and everything he's doing to kill any enjoyment (including Ken Rosenthal) that I have for baseball. This is war.

[1776]

Interesting. So is this decision to terminate the MLB team cards a directive from MLB or Bank of America?

[Cruzer1]

10 hours ago, 1776 said:

Interesting. So is this decision to terminate the MLB team cards a directive from MLB or Bank of America?

I don't know. I blame Manfred.

[IdahoBert]

As a fan I have a sense of ownership over a team. It’s “my team.“ I know it’s dumb but it’s true. We are enculturated to nurture this self-deception even when nothing else in our society works like this.  But it’s their team and they don’t really care if we like it or not and no Ken Burns documentary tugging at your heart-strings can change that.

MLBs brash bottom line is like an off-key note in a familiar tune. It jolts you. They’re not making any attempt to keep the myth of baseball alive. I know that money makes the world go around, but so do commonly held mythologies. They motivate people. Baseball is an American Homeric legend. There’s something beautiful about it. These owners are poor stewards of the myth. 

[Motor City Sonics]

I don't think they're starting this season on time.   They are going to damage the game so much. 

[romad1]

7 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I don't think they're starting this season on time.   They are going to damage the game so much. 

Mafia Manfred is going to kill all their kids

[JackPine]

11 hours ago, IdahoBert said:

As a fan I have a sense of ownership over a team. It’s “my team.“ I know it’s dumb but it’s true. We are enculturated to nurture this self-deception even when nothing else in our society works like this.  But it’s their team and they don’t really care if we like it or not and no Ken Burns documentary tugging at your heart-strings can change that.

MLBs brash bottom line is like an off-key note in a familiar tune. It jolts you. They’re not making any attempt to keep the myth of baseball alive. I know that money makes the world go around, but so do commonly held mythologies. They motivate people. Baseball is an American Homeric legend. There’s something beautiful about it. These owners are poor stewards of the myth. 

Very well put. I under estimated how crucial commonly held mythologies are to a society until relatively recently. If they don't get their act together they'll be creating new mythologies that don't benefit the game. Given the unquantifiability of myth, I have my doubts it has any chance to outweigh money. 

[romad1]

12 hours ago, IdahoBert said:

As a fan I have a sense of ownership over a team. It’s “my team.“ I know it’s dumb but it’s true. We are enculturated to nurture this self-deception even when nothing else in our society works like this.  But it’s their team and they don’t really care if we like it or not and no Ken Burns documentary tugging at your heart-strings can change that.

MLBs brash bottom line is like an off-key note in a familiar tune. It jolts you. They’re not making any attempt to keep the myth of baseball alive. I know that money makes the world go around, but so do commonly held mythologies. They motivate people. Baseball is an American Homeric legend. There’s something beautiful about it. These owners are poor stewards of the myth. 

The stupid thing is that we let them do this.   Sport is a public good as much as a business.  

[chasfh]

They hooked us when they named the team the “Detroit” Tigers. If they were the Little Caesars Tigers, or had been the Dominos Tigers or the Fetzer Broadcasting Tigers while we were growing up, maybe we wouldn’t care so much about them.

[Tiger337]

The Detroit name means nothing to me.  If they moved to Oregon and became the Portland Tigers, I would still be a fan.  You guys can root for the Detroit Wheels expansion team.  

[davidsb623]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

The Detroit name means nothing to me.  If they moved to Oregon and became the Portland Tigers, I would still be a fan.  You guys can root for the Detroit Wheels expansion team.  

The Portland Tigers would be dead to me.  Go Wheels!!

[Motor City Sonics]

This spring will be Michigan Panthers season...................and I'll be totally invested in them for the 3 games they play before the league folds.  

[1776]

Every winter I indulge myself reading baseball related books, primarily related to the Detroit Tigers. I’ve been reading two SABR publications that are several years old but still interesting. One is dedicated to the 1935 championship season and the other the 1984 season. I guess you could call this interest my personal hot stove activity. It is definitely a pleasant distraction from what and where the game is today.

The one unfortunate takeaway from my readings and interest in the past eras is the glaring difference between what the game was then and what it is today. I know that by today’s standards I’m defined as just an old white guy that can’t adapt to change. I’m fully aware that I am not the guy Manfred & Company care about at all. Manfred is a disaster in so many ways but that isn’t anything I can change. Baseball isn’t the escape from reality that it used to be. It is frustrating but it isn’t going to change. 

 

 

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, 1776 said:

The one unfortunate takeaway from my readings and interest in the past eras is the glaring difference between what the game was then and what it is today. I know that by today’s standards I’m defined as just an old white guy that can’t adapt to change. I’m fully aware that I am not the guy Manfred & Company care about at all. Manfred is a disaster in so many ways but that isn’t anything I can change. Baseball isn’t the escape from reality that it used to be. It is frustrating but it isn’t going to change. 

 

 

Change can be good, but changes which don't address real needs are bad.  There have always been changes in baseball in my lifetime - designated hitter, interleague play, free agency, etc.  I haven't always liked the changes, but it seemed that baseball unlike  other sports was slow to change and took years considering possibilities before anything happened.  There seemed to be a reluctance to tamper with a game that was working well and I liked that for the most part.  Under Manfred, things seem to happening so quickly and for no reason.  Putting a runner on base to start extra innings?  wtf?   It seems like they don't care about the game and are just treating it like a generic entertainment event wanting to squeeze as much money out of it as they can.  

Edited January 10, 2022 by Tiger337

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

This spring will be Michigan Panthers season...................and I'll be totally invested in them for the 3 games they play before the league folds.  

I am intrigued by the USFL, but mostly because it brings back memories.  I was in my early 20s when the league last existed and I thought it was cool that a new football league started and was able to attract some star players.  I don't think I'll pay too much attention this time around, although there is an opportunity to troll Patriots fans by pretending to care about it more than the NFL.  

[buddha]

you all complain and you will all be back to watching as soon as this is over.

[JackPine]

28 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

 

 It seems like they don't care about the game and are just treating it like a generic entertainment event wanting to squeeze as much money out of it as they can.  

That's exactly what it is. Sure, some owners are fans, in fact probably most, but they are ALL in it for profit. In my personal delusion, I assume the owners feel that profits and tradition/ fan experience aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, they probably think the two concepts build on each other to some extent. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by JackPine

[JackPine]

2 minutes ago, buddha said:

you all complain and you will all be back to watching as soon as this is over.

You're totally right. We are too die hard and set in our ways to be steered away. For one reason or another, we watched through these last few rebuild years. If we survived that, its going to take a hell of a lot to scare us away.

That being said, I'm not above seeing the flaws and hard truth realities that play in the background of a sport I enjoy watching.

[davidsb623]

25 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I am intrigued by the USFL, but mostly because it brings back memories.  I was in my early 20s when the league last existed and I thought it was cool that a new football league started and was able to attract some star players.  I don't think I'll pay too much attention this time around, although there is an opportunity to troll Patriots fans by pretending to care about it more than the NFL.  

Weird fact about year 1 of USFL 2.0 - all games for all teams will be played at one location.  All team are expected to play in their respective regions in year 2.

Edited January 10, 2022 by davidsb623

[Tiger337]

18 minutes ago, buddha said:

you all complain and you will all be back to watching as soon as this is over.

My interest in the game has waned considerably the past few years.  I still like it and continue to follow the stats and story lines closely, but I am spending a lot less time watching games.  

[John_Brian_K]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

My interest in the game has waned considerably the past few years.  I still like it and continue to follow the stats and story lines closely, but I am spending a lot less time watching games.  

Why?  Just because of the Comish?

[Tiger337]

15 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

Why?  Just because of the Comish?

Multiple reasons:

(1) Games have gotten too slow.

(2) There is not enough action - too many home runs and strikeouts.

(3) Free runners in extra innings!  I can't watch that at all.  

(4) Too much emphasis on playoffs and that's just going to get worse.

(5) Elimination of my favorite minor league teams.

(6) Other stuff in my life not related to baseball.

The Tigers getting better will help, but I don't like the direction the game is heading.   

 

 

[romad1]

I still love the game.  I want an unscripted event that has unambiguous results that sometimes demonstrates character and heroism. 

Other sports appear more formulaic and scripted and the degree to which Rob Manfred is manipulating events with different quality balls for different games is a definite problem.   Baseball is harder to script.  Its still hard to hit a baseball and hard to put one exactly where you want it.  The narrative of the Max Scherzer playoff relief appearance against the Oakland As when he cames in and loads the bases and then gets out of it through his sheer force of will is hard to repeat. 

Aaron Rogers getting an extra untimed down as the clock expires to throw a hail mary seems pretty ridiculous in comparison. 

[gehringer_2]

4 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

 It seems like they don't care about the game and are just treating it like a generic entertainment event wanting to squeeze as much money out of it as they can.  

this is spot on other than your use of the word 'seems'.    😕

[Jim Cowan]

I like to follow it, but I can't put 3 hours into watching it.  Which is moot, because I pulled out my cable 10 years ago so I can't watch it anyway.  The best for me was always Sunday afternoon on the radio, washing the car, listening to Tom Cheek call a Blue Jays game.