LOCKOUT '22: When will we see baseball again?

[SoCalTiger]

Baseball is unique because of its historical statistics. It's the "back of the baseball card" and what connects one generation of fans to the next as points of comparison. As Baseball becomes more and more money driven those statistical comparisons are fraying and the connection to the past diminishes. Complete games, innings pitched, great starting pitching matchups are all going down the drain with "one time through the order" pitching. Playoff records are getting diluted, and soon more so, when so many games are "playoffs". Heck it used to be only two teams in the playoffs for about 100 years.  

it just seems that as baseball tries to negotiate more money into the game by changing it the quality of the sport just suffers. Games used to be 2 hours and now they are four and its progress.  Just go back to 2 leagues and the World Series. 25 man rosters with limited "up and down" from the minors. Pitcher have to pitch more so the offense can do more. Everyone's a free agent at 28 or 29. Let the market determine salaries. Limit the draft and combine it with the international draft.Let teams scout and recruit players left out.

Just get the non baseball folks like Manfred out of the decision making. 

[SoCalTiger]

8 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

I like to follow it, but I can't put 3 hours into watching it.  Which is moot, because I pulled out my cable 10 years ago so I can't watch it anyway.  The best for me was always Sunday afternoon on the radio, washing the car, listening to Tom Cheek call a Blue Jays game.

Baseball was made for the radio. You are right. washing the car, driving somewhere, hanging at the beach, painting the house....

[Tiger337]

7 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Baseball was made for the radio. You are right. washing the car, driving somewhere, hanging at the beach, painting the house....

That is how I got started.  Then I eventually got to the point where I was watching most of the games.  In the past few years, I have trended back to the radio.  

 

[Motor City Sonics]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Multiple reasons:

(1) Games have gotten too slow.

(2) There is not enough action - too many home runs and strikeouts.

(3) Free runners in extra innings!  I can't watch that at all.  

(4) Too much emphasis on playoffs and that's just going to get worse.

(5) Elimination of my favorite minor league teams.

(6) Other stuff in my life not related to baseball.

The Tigers getting better will help, but I don't like the direction the game is heading.   

 

 

1 - Baseball games have been too expensive to attend for families to go on a regular basis (5 or more games a year).  Then kids don't grow up with baseball, and the sentimental bond is not formed.  

2 - There are far too many other options for entertainment all year 'round and the younger people today would rather watch other people play video games than real athletes play baseball.  

3 - Baseball has not promoted it's stars properly.  Regular people would not recognize Mike Trout or Aaron Judge or Jacob deGrom.   Back in the day even my mom knew who Reggie Jackson was.  She knew who Nolan Ryan was.  

4 - Financial Competitive imbalance.   Seems like for long stretches it's the same 6-8 teams that are at the top and most of the rest of the league really has no shot.  And even some teams who are consistently good like Tampa Bay and Oakland keep trading star players away as soon as they might be due more money, so they never really get over the hump and fans have a harder time bonding with a star player when they know every one of them is leaving.   Baseball feels like the Big 6 and the little 24.   

5 - Games are too slow.  Part of it is sabermetrics and too many pitcher switches, but of it is the need to cram more breaks into the game to get more ads into the broadcast.   Baseball has always been slow, but not like this. 

6 - Little league baseball has gotten too corporate with travel teams.  Black kids have virtually no connection to baseball anymore and you see the MLB numbers of black players dropping fast.  Kids like many of us, who weren't very good at it, could still play on a little league team.  Well now it feels like over the age of about 11 that if you are not good enough to be on a travel team, then you don't play at all.  Again, no sentimental bond is formed. 

7 - Home Run or Strike Out.   When I was a kid you drew a chalk box against the school wall and played with a tennis ball...........You either missed it or hit it over the fence.  That's what baseball is feeling like now.  It's boring.   

8 - Fire Ausmus.  

 

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Little league baseball has gotten too corporate with travel teams.  Black kids have virtually no connection to baseball anymore and you see the MLB numbers of black players dropping fast.  Kids like many of us, who weren't very good at it, could still play on a little league team.  Well now it feels like over the age of about 11 that if you are not good enough to be on a travel team, then you don't play at all.  Again, no sentimental bond is formed. 

this is the one will kill the game in the end. The strength of baseball was that everyone played it, the girls, the boys, the moms, the dads. This has just gone away. Empty diamonds everywhere all summer long. Most sports have to get by on pure spectator value, few people have any direct identification with what pro football, or hockey players are doing from moment to moment. More for basketball and soccer, but still nothing like the % percentage that know what it feels like to swing a bat at a ball or catch a fly ball.  But that % started dropping fast with gen X, partly because their cohort was too small to field sand lot teams, and has only accelerated with the millennials

[romad1]

54 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

this is the one will kill the game in the end. The strength of baseball was that everyone played it, the girls, the boys, the moms, the dads. This has just gone away. Empty diamonds everywhere all summer long. Most sports have to get by on pure spectator value, few people have any direct identification with what pro football, or hockey players are doing from moment to moment. More for basketball and soccer, but still nothing like the % percentage that know what it feels like to swing a bat at a ball or catch a fly ball.  But that % started dropping fast with gen X, partly because their cohort was too small to field sand lot teams, and has only accelerated with the millennials

rolling my eyes as the president of a 5-18yr softball league that is thriving even in an environment saturated by soccer, lacrosse and all those other garbage sports.

[CMRivdogs]

51 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

this is the one will kill the game in the end. The strength of baseball was that everyone played it, the girls, the boys, the moms, the dads. This has just gone away. Empty diamonds everywhere all summer long. Most sports have to get by on pure spectator value, few people have any direct identification with what pro football, or hockey players are doing from moment to moment. More for basketball and soccer, but still nothing like the % percentage that know what it feels like to swing a bat at a ball or catch a fly ball.  But that % started dropping fast with gen X, partly because their cohort was too small to field sand lot teams, and has only accelerated with the millennials

That's it, whether you had 2 guys, 20 guys or whatever you were out on the sandlot  ,vacant field or someone's backyard playing some variation of the game. You just needed a ball, something that resembled a bat and maybe a glove (which a lot of the time was shared). You knew the lineups of your favorite team and probably most of the teams in the league.

Can't say that for kids today for various reasons.

[romad1]

My daughter is really into softball.  I don't know how you maniacs are raising your kids.  Maybe stop day drinking and go coach them up.

[1776]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

 

6 - Little league baseball has gotten too corporate with travel teams.  Black kids have virtually no connection to baseball anymore and you see the MLB numbers of black players dropping fast.  

This has been a primary complaint of mine regarding MLB for quite some time now. After their virtue signaling crusade the last couple of years, they aren’t doing crap for black kids. So much hypocrisy it’s a shame. 
The SF Giants had “Black Lives Matter” front and center on their website for the longest time. All hypocrisy. What have they done to help black kids play ball at a young age-nothing! What is Manfred and his crowd doing specifically to honestly help black kids get interested in the game and pursue a career in it? I am not aware of anything specific. Joe Morgan, years ago was a part of trying to get something like this off the ground but I don’t know that it ever went anywhere. Latin American players put tons of resources back in their home country's for kids interested in baseball. The decline in black participation in baseball at all levels is sad. The reasons aren’t a mystery but it is still a sad situation. 

 

[romad1]

17 minutes ago, 1776 said:

This has been a primary complaint of mine regarding MLB for quite some time now. After their virtue signaling crusade the last couple of years, they aren’t doing crap for black kids. So much hypocrisy it’s a shame. 
The SF Giants had “Black Lives Matter” front and center on their website for the longest time. All hypocrisy. What have they done to help black kids play ball at a young age-nothing! What is Manfred and his crowd doing specifically to honestly help black kids get interested in the game and pursue a career in it? I am not aware of anything specific. Joe Morgan, years ago was a part of trying to get something like this off the ground but I don’t know that it ever went anywhere. Latin American players put tons of resources back in their home country's for kids interested in baseball. The decline in black participation in baseball at all levels is sad. The reasons aren’t a mystery but it is still a sad situation. 

 

MLB has their own sponsored little league baseball and softball leagues.  My organization doesn't want to interact with them because of the perceived headache of having to snap to their template on things. 

I think the worry about African Americans being driven from the game by latter day Bull Connors at the MLB offices is a little overdone.  I know you didn't imply that but I enjoyed the ridiculous metaphor and once I had it on my screen I wanted to keep it there. 

[RandyMarsh]

Baseball not promoting its stars is one of their biggest problems, I will say they seemed to try to do that with Ohtani this year so perhaps they are learning. 

I just remember a couple years ago ESPN ran a fame 100 countdown where they ranked the 100 most famous athletes in the world based on things like social media followers,  google searches,  endorsement money etc. and iirc not a single baseball player made the list. 

[Jim Cowan]

51 minutes ago, romad1 said:

My daughter is really into softball.  I don't know how you maniacs are raising your kids.  Maybe stop day drinking and go coach them up.

Lol

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

My daughter is really into softball.  I don't know how you maniacs are raising your kids.  Maybe stop day drinking and go coach them up.

Romad, you know in your heart you are an outlier, just own it. 

[romad1]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

Romad, you know in your heart you are an outlier, just own it. 

I control only that which is local.  And for everyone else i’ll say this: fuck worries about the World if you aren’t doing something local. 

[CMRivdogs]

3 hours ago, romad1 said:

My daughter is really into softball.  I don't know how you maniacs are raising your kids.  Maybe stop day drinking and go coach them up.

My son's a bit old for Little League. Played a bit when he was younger. Back then I bought him a week at a White Sox sponsored hitting camp. He went 1 for the season.

Fourth grade grandson is more into basketball. 

[romad1]

Just now, CMRivdogs said:

My son's a bit old for Little League. Played a bit when he was younger. Back then I bought him a week at a White Sox sponsored hitting camp. He went 1 for the season.

Fourth grade grandson is more into basketball. 

You have a child just a bit too old for LL and a grandson in the 4th grade?  

This seems to require an explanation 

[Tenacious D]

Little league ends at age 12

[Jim Cowan]

Right so the son is in his early teens, and the grandson is 4.  Is the son Jim Adduci?

[CMRivdogs]

49 minutes ago, romad1 said:

You have a child just a bit too old for LL and a grandson in the 4th grade?  

This seems to require an explanation 

Bit is a relative term.  OK way too old....

Edited January 11, 2022 by CMRivdogs

[romad1]

I'm reminded of the Flight of the Conchords musical greeting card which was the ultra rare "Happy 80th birthday, Son" card. 

[romad1]

Just now, CMRivdogs said:

Bit is a relative term. 

Most pre-teen boys feel they need some seasoning before they are ready to settle down and start a family.  Not the CMRivdog clan. 

[buddha]

black kids choose not to play baseball, its not because of something baseball has done or didnt do.

the players union is equally or more at fault for the pace of play issues.  the players are the one who refuse to stay in the box, or refuse to throw the ball on a timely basis.  and they have resisted any attempts by management to require them to do so.

people's attention span had gotten shorter, baseball has not adapted like other sports.  getting the umpires to enforce the rules and the players to play by them is the first step to 2 hour games again.

[Tigeraholic1]

Little League is awful. No on deck circle, crazy pitch count limits, etc.... Most kids leave house ball by age 10 for travel or quit all together.

[Tigeraholic1]

16 hours ago, romad1 said:

My daughter is really into softball.  I don't know how you maniacs are raising your kids.  Maybe stop day drinking and go coach them up.

My son has played baseball every year since he was 4 (13 now). Quit after last year and wants to play AAU summer basketball. Said baseball is boring, kinda broke my heart.....

[Tiger337]

34 minutes ago, buddha said:

people's attention span had gotten shorter, baseball has not adapted like other sports.  getting the umpires to enforce the rules and the players to play by them is the first step to 2 hour games again.

I was hoping seven inning games and free baserunners were going solve the problem.