LOCKOUT '22: When will we see baseball again?

[chasfh]

On 1/10/2022 at 11:39 AM, Tiger337 said:

Multiple reasons:

(1) Games have gotten too slow.

(2) There is not enough action - too many home runs and strikeouts.

(3) Free runners in extra innings!  I can't watch that at all.  

(4) Too much emphasis on playoffs and that's just going to get worse.

(5) Elimination of my favorite minor league teams.

(6) Other stuff in my life not related to baseball.

The Tigers getting better will help, but I don't like the direction the game is heading.   

 

 

All of these reasons you give for your interest waning in the game are good and valid. To me, they pale against the big reason my interest in the game is in real jeopardy: the integration of gambling into the very fabric of the game. From showing odds and money lines on the MLB Network crawl, to programs about betting on that and many baseball team RSNs,to gambling-related drop-ins on radio and TV game broadcasts, and the eventuality of seeing sportsbooks physically erected within stadiums, the suddenness with which Bsseball has chased after the gambling buck has been breathtaking and appalling.

I honestly fear what that might do to the competitive integrity of the game.

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

You're playing my song. How many years have you guys heard me advocating the idea that deadening the ball will solve practically every problem in the game that has evolved since Chicks Dig The Long Ball started?

The reason is simple: pitchers are afraid of giving up home runs. So pitchers have to be super careful to every hitter in the order, because every hitter can take them out of the park. They are trying to induce swing-and-miss on every pitch with maximum velocity and movement, so they end up throwing more pitches per plate appearance and taking more time in between pitches to maximize the gathering of their strength. That might be layering an extra half hour onto game time all by itself. But batters are still trying to jack the ball, which means they're always trying to pull it over the fence, so the shift makes sense to employ on most hitters.

Deaden the ball to 1980s-level, and you'll have fewer homers, which means pitchers can pitch to contact, which means batters would need to hit 'em where they ain't instead of hit 'em over their heads, which will eliminate the shift on all but the scariest power hitters. there would be fewer homers, fewer strikeouts, more balls in play, more action on batted balls. I bet fans would come back to see that.

The old farts would come back.  The new fans want DINGERS AND JACKS AND BAT FLIPS.  

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

All of these reasons you give for your interest waning in the game are good and valid. To me, they pale against the big reason my interest in the game is in real jeopardy: the integration of gambling into the very fabric of the game. From showing odds and money lines on the MLB Network crawl, to programs about betting on that and many baseball team RSNs,to gambling-related drop-ins on radio and TV game broadcasts, and the eventuality of seeing sportsbooks physically erected within stadiums, the suddenness with which Bsseball has chased after the gambling buck has been breathtaking and appalling.

I honestly fear what that might do to the competitive integrity of the game.

I am definitely concerned about gambling.  I was going to add it to my list, but it hasn't become a problem yet.  

[RandyMarsh]

Gambling hasn't bothered me yet in baseball but in other sports it has started to effect my viewing experience. For example during yesterday's college football game the score was really low as late as the 3rd quarter and one of the announcers said something like "Im sure all the folks that bet the under are happy with this score."

That's just one example but you hear little comments like that all the time and it takes me out of the game a bit when I watch it.

[HeyAbbott]

On 1/10/2022 at 12:39 PM, Tiger337 said:

Multiple reasons:

(1) Games have gotten too slow.

(2) There is not enough action - too many home runs and strikeouts.

(3) Free runners in extra innings!  I can't watch that at all.  

(4) Too much emphasis on playoffs and that's just going to get worse.

(5) Elimination of my favorite minor league teams.

(6) Other stuff in my life not related to baseball.

The Tigers getting better will help, but I don't like the direction the game is heading.   

 

 

With as common as home runs are now, it is like watching beer league slow pitch softball. I never watch any games in which the Red Sox or Yankees play because I cannot commit five hours to watch a game that should be played in 2 1/2 hours

[chasfh]

25 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I am definitely concerned about gambling.  I was going to add it to my list, but it hasn't become a problem yet.  

The frog is getting warmer.

[buddha]

gambling has been a major part of all international sports forever.  the recent scandals of people throwing games have been before gambling was legalized in american sports.  

this is like complaining that players are going to smoke the majijuana now that its legal.  drugs will ruin the game!

put your pearls away, legalized gambling has no effect on the product on the field now matter how much your strain your arguments to make it seem like it does.

legalized gambling is good for the sports because it drives interest and increases revenues.

Edited January 11, 2022 by buddha

[gehringer_2]

41 minutes ago, chasfh said:

You're playing my song. How many years have you guys heard me advocating the idea that deadening the ball will solve practically every problem in the game that has evolved since Chicks Dig The Long Ball started?

The reason is simple: pitchers are afraid of giving up home runs. So pitchers have to be super careful to every hitter in the order, because every hitter can take them out of the park. They are trying to induce swing-and-miss on every pitch with maximum velocity and movement, so they end up throwing more pitches per plate appearance and taking more time in between pitches to maximize the gathering of their strength. That might be layering an extra half hour onto game time all by itself. But batters are still trying to jack the ball, which means they're always trying to pull it over the fence, so the shift makes sense to employ on most hitters.

Deaden the ball to 1980s-level, and you'll have fewer homers, which means pitchers can pitch to contact, which means batters would need to hit 'em where they ain't instead of hit 'em over their heads, which will eliminate the shift on all but the scariest power hitters. there would be fewer homers, fewer strikeouts, more balls in play, more action on batted balls. I bet fans would come back to see that.

Also fewer pitching changes.

This is all so clear that it stands as incontrovertible evidence that the people managing the game today must be total morons.

[chasfh]

15 minutes ago, buddha said:

gambling has been a major part of all international sports forever.  the recent scandals of people throwing games have been before gambling was legalized in american sports.  

this is like complaining that players are going to smoke the majijuana now that its legal.  drugs will ruin the game!

put your pearls away, legalized gambling has no effect on the product on the field now matter how much your strain your arguments to make it seem like it does.

legalized gambling is good for the sports because it drives interest and increases revenues.

Even though I couldn't give less of a shit about how much gambling is a major part of international sports, there are plenty of examples of game-fixing in the legalized gambling era, like this, this, this, this, and this.

I don't think legalized gambling is good for the game of baseball, and no amount of your shaming me will make me change my mind about that.

Edited January 11, 2022 by chasfh

[chasfh]

I also don't give a flying fuck about how much increased revenue leagues and team owners make from their association with gamblers. That doesn't make it a better game on the field, as far as I'm concerned.

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I also don't give a flying fuck about how much increased revenue leagues and team owners make from their association with gamblers. That doesn't make it a better game on the field, as far as I'm concerned.

I have never understood why so many fans care about that.  How much money the owners make has zero effect on my enjoyment of the game.  

[Tiger337]

42 minutes ago, buddha said:

gambling has been a major part of all international sports forever.  the recent scandals of people throwing games have been before gambling was legalized in american sports.  

this is like complaining that players are going to smoke the majijuana now that its legal.  drugs will ruin the game!

put your pearls away, legalized gambling has no effect on the product on the field now matter how much your strain your arguments to make it seem like it does.

legalized gambling is good for the sports because it drives interest and increases revenues.

I predict there will be a scandal in major professional sports involving prop bets at some point.  It might have already happened, but nobody has been caught yet.  

Edited January 11, 2022 by Tiger337

[chasfh]

23 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Also fewer pitching changes.

This is all so clear that it stands as incontrovertible evidence that the people managing the game today must be total morons.

Also, fewer pitching injuries and more innings from starters, which would probably lead to fewer pitchers needed on active rosters. Maybe we would even see a return to 11-man pitching staffs and a couple additional bench spots for position players. Perhaps platooning could make a big comeback in the game.

[Tiger337]

34 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Also fewer pitching changes.

This is all so clear that it stands as incontrovertible evidence that the people managing the game today must be total morons.

They aren't morons.  They just like home runs. 

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I predict there will be a scandal in major professional sports involving prop bets at some point.  It has probably already happened, but nobody has been caught yet.  

I think the biggest barrier to a revelation of a major betting scandal in American pro sports would be stonewalling of the media. Baseball has no interest in the black eye a gambling scandal would inevitably land on its face. Shit, man, MLB Network won't even run the movie Eight Men Out on their network anymore.

Not only does each of the four North American major sports leagues run owned-and-operated networks that many fans rely on for much of their news, they have also gotten a lot a lot smarter about controlling which writers from outside media get access to teams and players. Remember how Fenech got shit-canned from the Tigers beat? That wasn't because he was banging some girl in a parking garage, or whatever that bullshit scandal that one rag blog claimed about him.

After all, if the best writer in the game can get fired from his MLB Network gig for making gloves-on criticisms of Manfred in a publication not even owned by MLB, how many baseball writers are going to risk their professional necks following the crumbs on a baseball gambling scandal for however long it takes to properly expose it?

[buddha]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Even though I couldn't give less of a shit about how much gambling is a major part of international sports, there are plenty of examples of game-fixing in the legalized gambling era, like this, this, this, this, and this.

I don't think legalized gambling is good for the game of baseball, and no amount of your shaming me will make me change my mind about that.

ok, now do the examples of point shaving in america before sports gambling was legalized.

i dont give a flying fuck what you think either, lol.  and i'm not trying to shame you, i just disagree with you.  and i think you are "clutching pearls" when it comes to this issue.

other than that, you're a lovely guy.  🙂

lee on the other hand...

[chasfh]

6 minutes ago, buddha said:

ok, now do the examples of point shaving in america before sports gambling was legalized.

i dont give a flying fuck what you think either, lol.  and i'm not trying to shame you, i just disagree with you.  and i think you are "clutching pearls" when it comes to this issue.

other than that, you're a lovely guy.  🙂

lee on the other hand...

I never said I don't give a flying fuck what you think. I don't know where you got that.

By your argument, the problem is not the potential of gambling to create scandal the way it literally has many times before—the problem is people who profess fear for the integrity of the game precisely because gambling has created scandal the way it literally has many times before. That's nonsense, brother.

Your idea that gambling is harmless fun that hurts no one is laughable. In environments where gambling has been legal and illegal, there is a clear competitive integrity problem with gambling in sports that's been revealed over and over many many times in fixing scandals in both distant and recent history. And that's not even contemplating the social, psychological, and financial damage that gambling, a DSM-5-defined addiction, has wreaked on people throughout history.

I would say that someone who believes—I mean seriously believes—that American sports could never experience a fixing scandal in a legal gambling environment—despite that several non-American sports have experienced fixing scandals in a legal gambling environment, and that American sports have experienced fixing scandals in a non-legal gambling environment—is pretty naive.

[IdahoBert]

My problem with gambling is that it incites the laboring underclass to dream of an escape from their just servitude. It’s getting harder and harder to find people willing to work for $7.25/hr. on my estate.

[IdahoBert]

Also, it doesn’t look like there’s a profanity filter anymore.

[casimir]

Maybe I missed it, but wouldn’t MLB (or any league) be reluctant to speed the game up if it’s getting revenue off of gambling?  The slower a game, the more action during it, the more revenue from it?

[1776]

The two sides have a meeting scheduled Thursday for negotiations. *yawn*

[casimir]

1 minute ago, 1776 said:

The two sides have a meeting scheduled Thursday for negotiations. *yawn*

It’s a meeting to set up the meeting.

[buddha]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

I also don't give a flying fuck about how much increased revenue leagues and team owners make from their association with gamblers. That doesn't make it a better game on the field, as far as I'm concerned.

i think that revenues from gambling are important and said so in an earlier post, which is why you made your flying fuck comment about it.

that's where i got it from.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Maybe I missed it, but wouldn’t MLB (or any league) be reluctant to speed the game up if it’s getting revenue off of gambling?  The slower a game, the more action during it, the more revenue from it?

It would be the same amount of action.  However, with more dead time, there is more time for gamblers to make bets, so speeding up the game might not be profitable.   

[buddha]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I never said I don't give a flying fuck what you think. I don't know where you got that.

By your argument, the problem is not the potential of gambling to create scandal the way it literally has many times before—the problem is people who profess fear for the integrity of the game precisely because gambling has created scandal the way it literally has many times before. That's nonsense, brother.

Your idea that gambling is harmless fun that hurts no one is laughable. In environments where gambling has been legal and illegal, there is a clear competitive integrity problem with gambling in sports that's been revealed over and over many many times in fixing scandals in both distant and recent history. And that's not even contemplating the social, psychological, and financial damage that gambling, a DSM-5-defined addiction, has wreaked on people throughout history.

 

I would say that someone who believes—I mean seriously believes—that American sports could never experience a fixing scandal in a legal gambling environment—despite that several non-American sports have experienced fixing scandals in a legal gambling environment, and that American sports have experienced fixing scandals in a non-legal gambling environment—is pretty naive.

now youre just making shit up.  gambling has been illegal for years and there have been tons of gambling scandals in the united states (and many more we dont know about, im sure).  and if youre SO VERY VERY CONCERNED about the effects of gambling and why a sports league's association with it might cause harm to people, why arent you out protesting mlb's lifelong association with making money off of alcohol?

i never said that american sports COULD NEVER experience a gambling scandal.  in fact, i said the exact opposite of that.  i said american sports has experienced multiple instances of gambling scandals PRIOR TO the legalization of gambling nationwide and major league sports' association with it.

ask tim donaghy.

how you prevent a gambling scandal is by paying players a ton of money and making huge penalties for complying.  you get your gambling scandals from college players and refs.

now go have a beer, maybe even the official beer of the detroit tigers and major league baseball?