LOCKOUT '22: When will we see baseball again?

[gehringer_2]

this thread is becoming proof we need some baseball games.

[chasfh]

5 hours ago, buddha said:

i know that when i go to a baseball game and think about how hard it is for issac paredes to survive on $630,000 a year, it just breaks my heart.  hopefully mlb helps him with his rent and gives him an extra stipend for food to supplement his need for wic money.  

we should set up a go fund me page for him to help him clothe his children during such troubling times.  its the least an ethical fan can do.

Isaac Paredes was up on the Tigers roster for 42 days, which works out to about $133,000 in salary. That's considerably less than $630,000 a year. So, I don't think this example is working as hard for you and you think it is.

[chasfh]

5 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

You'd hope the players have (should have!) seen this coming a mile away and even the MLB minimum is enough money that you could have put yourself in position to go a year without being paid.Of course there will be some players who are unprepared or have leveraged themselves with outside debts they can't support. Probably more than should have!

Most owner theoretically have more than enough resources to cover their non-playing overhead, but it might be complicated for some - they may not be able to just shift money into their ball club from some other entities without violating  responsibilities to other partners or stock holders etc. And you might have some owners who are just more the sportsman and want to play more than they care about their co-owners' last $.

 

That's probably true of established stars who have made millions already, although a high percentage of the 1,200 guys forced to stop work by the lockout aren't on that yacht. Some have yet to play their first big league game, and many others were big leaguers for only a few games or few weeks or something. It's kind of hard for those guys to sock away a lot of money on just a few weeks of $22,000 a week plus whatever their minor league salary is.

People don't have to feel sorry for them, since they made the choice to do what they're doing for a living, just like people don't have to feel sorry for any of us if our employers lock us out. But it's not as though all these players are on vacation and living it up on easy street. Not true for a lot of them.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

What position am I taking?

OK, then I don't know what you were trying to put across.

[gehringer_2]

20 minutes ago, chasfh said:

That's probably true of established stars who have made millions already, although a high percentage of the 1,200 guys forced to stop work by the lockout aren't on that yacht. Some have yet to play their first big league game, and many others were big leaguers for only a few games or few weeks or something. It's kind of hard for those guys to sock away a lot of money on just a few weeks of $22,000 a week plus whatever their minor league salary is.

People don't have to feel sorry for them, since they made the choice to do what they're doing for a living, just like people don't have to feel sorry for any of us if our employers lock us out. But it's not as though all these players are on vacation and living it up on easy street. Not true for a lot of them.

sure the guys in the toughest spot are some of the guys just put on the 40 who haven't yet collected an MLB salary, though some of the guys in that position will also be top prospects like Greene and Tork who scored a nice payday when they signed.

[Tigeraholic1]

I definitely see both sides. As a fan they don’t care about our side. 
 

last year my son wanted to sit behind home plate for a game. That is considerably more expensive than as a family we could afford. So I made it work so that he and I could go. We sat two rows behind home plate and got to watch Casey Mize pitch (He lost) We still talk about how much fun it was.

We also went to see Spencer Torkelson play very early in the season. It was 25 degrees at first pitch (Tork went of 0-4 4 k’s) We love talking about that game even more.

What do we get out of delay/cancellation? More expensive experience and more of a disconnect.

 

 

[chasfh]

10 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

sure the guys in the toughest spot are some of the guys just put on the 40 who haven't yet collected an MLB salary, though some of the guys in that position will also be top prospects like Greene and Tork who scored a nice payday when they signed.

That's true for guys like Torkelson and Greene, for sure. I wonder how many 40-man roster players who have played less than a year in the majors got at least $1 million in either draft or international signing bonus? Seems like it would take a lot of legwork to get that one.

[Tiger337]

Torkelson and Greene are not on the 40-man roster.

I am a bit worried about Paredes though.  $130,000 doesn't go too far with inflation as it is and Issac likes to eat.  

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

He was headed for a Hank Aaron/ Frank Robinson career.  He turned out to have more like a Manny Ramirez type career (without the taint of roids). 

It's too bad we don't have access to the other board anymore, but toward the end there I think I'd posted that had Miggy had not hit a wall after 2016, when he already had 78.2 offensive WAR, that had he had a gradual decline, he could have ended up close to the top 20 of all time (around Eddie Mathews and Mike Schmidt), but instead he's going to end up around 40th, which is where he is right now, around Al Kaline.

Kaline was a great hitter, there can be no doubt, but when you start talking about THE greatest hitters in history, you will get around to Matthews and Schmidt fairly quickly, but you have to go a lot farther down the list to get to Kaline, and unfortunately, it's going to be that way for Miggy's legacy, too. Five years ago today, we wouldn't have thought that about MIggy.

[chasfh]

9 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Torkelson and Greene are not on the 40-man roster.

I am a bit worried about Paredes though.  $130,000 doesn't go too far with inflation as it is and Issac likes to eat.  

Good thing, because we will definitely need them to get plate reps in Toledo.

[Tiger337]

Paredes has been getting plate reps all winter.  

[chasfh]

6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Paredes has been getting plate reps all winter.  

My mistake, I thought you were talking about Torkelson and Greene.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Isaac Paredes was up on the Tigers roster for 42 days, which works out to about $133,000 in salary. That's considerably less than $630,000 a year. So, I don't think this example is working as hard for you and you think it is.

isaac paredes earned more money in 42 days than most american families make in 2 years.

so i dont think your "people with a conscious are rooting for the players" schtick is working as hard as you think it is either.

[casimir]

I can’t believe Lee is the one making food jokes about Paredes.  Any of most of the rest of us are the jerks that should be doing that.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

OK, then I don't know what you were trying to put across.

It’s pretty simple.  Both sides are to blame for the delay.

[IdahoBert]

Just to go off topic for a moment, I’m presuming that because it’s the Holy Holiday of Super Bowl Sunday that there won’t be any resolution to the lock out today. 

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

isaac paredes earned more money in 42 days than most american families make in 2 years.

so i dont think your "people with a conscious are rooting for the players" schtick is working as hard as you think it is either.

I did not say anything like "people with a conscious are rooting for the players".

[casimir]

1 minute ago, IdahoBert said:

Just to go off topic for a moment, I’m presuming that because it’s the Holy Holiday of Super Bowl Sunday that there won’t be any resolution to the lock out today. 

It’s going to be part of the halftime show.  Rob Manfred and Tony Clark are going to hit the stage with Snoop, Dr Dre, and Mary J Blige.

[chasfh]

7 minutes ago, casimir said:

It’s pretty simple.  Both sides are to blame for the delay.

That idea must be buried so deep in that post that I re-read it and still can't find it in there. 😅

Edited February 13, 2022 by chasfh

[casimir]

10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

That idea must be buried so deep in that post that I re-read it and still can't find it in there. 😅

My bad, I wasn’t explicit enough.  I was too worried thinking about how somebody can survive on an MLB wage whilst typing and got distracted.

Let’s be clear on something here.  This isn’t a typical union vs management CBA negotiation.  It’s nothing at all like that.  Biases regarding a situation were $25/hour jobs simply do not parallel to where top earners make $25M/year.  They’re playing with silly gobs of money in the middle of an expletive pandemic with inflation at ridiculous heights.  Both sides are at fault.  Both sides are culpable for the delay. To blindly side with one side over the other in this matter is flat out asinine.

Edited February 13, 2022 by casimir

[chasfh]

24 minutes ago, casimir said:

My bad, I wasn’t explicit enough.  I was too worried thinking about how somebody can survive on an MLB wage whilst typing and got distracted.

Let’s be clear on something here.  This isn’t a typical union vs management CBA negotiation.  It’s nothing at all like that.  Biases regarding a situation were $25/hour jobs simply do not parallel to where top earners make $25M/year.  They’re playing with silly gobs of money in the middle of an expletive pandemic with inflation at ridiculous heights.  Both sides are at fault.  Both sides are culpable for the delay. To blindly side with one side over the other in this matter is flat out asinine.

I don't agree with everything you write here, but I think it's OK not to care about one side or the other and just want there to be baseball, and who cares how the negotiation comes out. Most fans feel that. I myself am getting closer to the point now of, "I don't care how the contract comes out, just let there be baseball", since we're up against crunch time, and that's why I posted what I did.

I'd prefer an equitable solution for both sides, including the players, and I think many here would like that as well. I don't think that's a controversial idea. These guys are the very basis for why Baseball is awash in money, and there's been a lot of new money that's flowed in since the last CBA, so I think it's reasonable for them to get a fairer share of that. But like everyone else, I'd like to see the season start on time, too. In the end, none of us (I don't think?) have a direct stake in the disputes at hand, so I'd bet some of those here who declared early as being on Players' side might be getting closer to that "I don't care anymore how it comes out" feeling as well.

Edited February 13, 2022 by chasfh

[Jim Cowan]

Isaac Paredes is listed as one of the finalists for the Man of the Year award, sponsored by the American Grocers Association.

[buddha]

33 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Isaac Paredes is listed as one of the finalists for the Man of the Year award, sponsored by the American Grocers Association.

unusual considering the man can barely afford groceries on his tiny salary.

[sabretooth]

I honestly dont give a rats pitootie what the resolution is, and I refuse to be invested in the **seeming** substance of this process, or get drawn into sides.  The significance of this CBA in relation to the interests of the fans wont be known for some time afterwards.

I do want to see baseball ASAP, and that is all that matters to me.

Edited February 14, 2022 by sabretooth

[sabretooth]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

unusual considering the man can barely afford groceries on his tiny salary.

How I weep for him 😀