LOCKOUT '22: When will we see baseball again?

[chasfh]

19 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I can see Manfred doing this too.  I don't believe he has any feel for the game or its history.  A lot of young fans don't care about history, but baseball fans, more than any other sport I think,  have always liked tradition and history and you are going to lose fans if you don't understand this.  Baseball will never be as exciting to the casual fan as other sports.  You can't compete with them at that level.  

Baseball won't lose me over this, or over the lockout. The only way Baseball can lose me is through a game-fixing scandal. Were it to ever become clear that Baseball has fixed, or does fix, games for who cares what reason, that's the one way they can lose me.

As far as diehards like me are concerned, since Baseball knows they can't lose us so easily, they know they can do basically anything they want to the game and we'll stick around. We might not be happy with the changes, but we'll still watch. That's why they call us "diehards".

I don't think casual fans care enough about the game to get into a snit about dramatic changes like two-month playoffs or shortened seasons or things like that. Those things are an affront only to baseball history, which they have no sense of. I think a lot of them like baseball because of its romantic nature as America's summer pastime, so I think what puts those fans off is the very lockout we are experiencing, since it is undermining their romantic ideal about the game with business concerns they couldn't possibly care less about. I think those kinds of fans will peel off in great numbers if the season is severely shortened or canceled, just like they did after 1994-95.

As for the gamblers, the constituency Baseball appears to be catering to the most anymore, they basically couldn't care less about the game except as a betting opportunity. They'll come to baseball to bet on it when it's available, and when it's not, they'll just go and bet on other things until it comes back. I suspect Baseball could reduce itself to nine rounds of Home Run Derby and they'd still come around to bet on it.

Edited February 14, 2022 by chasfh

[Tenacious D]

I think the biggest risk is for fans who don’t miss it—once baseball becomes irrelevant, that’s when it is in danger.  Not a risk for a collection of nerds who spend time in an online forum like us, but could be for younger fans who might be indifferent to begin with.  Certainly happened to the NHL, though not an apples to apples comparison since hockey is more regional in nature and has never had the other major sport’s popularity.

[oblong]

Frankly, as a ticket holder, I pretty much write off early April games.  It's cold.  They moved the times up to 6:40.  It might snow.  There's hardly anyone there so the atmosphere is dead.  Even on nice days you get that thing where you feel fine in a light jacket when you leave but by 8:30 when the sun sets you need a hat and gloves.   I'm turning into an old man where I ask "Why am I sitting here freezing my ass off when I could be home?"  You could say the same for the last 2 weeks of September, outside of playoff chases.   I don't like extreme weather games. 

Opening Day is fun because it's all new but I'm done with the party atmosphere.  Nothing cool about watching a lady sit on a curb crying because she's drunk and can't find her friends or listening to a bunch of frat bros swearing.  

Also in terms of overall sports appeal in April don't you have the NBA and NHL Playoffs in full swing?  So is it worth it to the league to fund those games? 

Jeez..... don't let Manfred read this.  

[Biff Mayhem]

6 minutes ago, oblong said:

I'm turning into an old man where I ask "Why am I sitting here freezing my ass off when I could be home?"  You could say the same for the last 2 weeks of September, outside of playoff chases.   I don't like extreme weather games. 

Opening Day is fun because it's all new but I'm done with the party atmosphere.  Nothing cool about watching a lady sit on a curb crying because she's drunk and can't find her friends or listening to a bunch of frat bros swearing.

Turning? 🤣

[RandyMarsh]

I wonder how many casual fans even know there is a strike going on right now? I was at my parents yesterday for the Super Bowl and my Step Dad and his friend said something like "shouldnt Spring Training be starting up here soon?" and when I told them about the strike they had no idea. 

My Step Dad is usually who I use as the barometer for casual fan, he's somebody that watches about half of the games but doesn't listen to sports talk radio and certainly doesn't go on the internet to talk about sports. Any sports information he gets is from the local news and my siblings and me. 

[buddha]

this whole thread is a bunch of old men shaking their fists at clouds.

i'm just glad that its not me for once.

[Tiger337]

I am an old many shaking my fist at the clouds, but don't you dare take away my wRC+.  

[Tenacious D]

53 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I wonder how many casual fans even know there is a strike going on right now? I was at my parents yesterday for the Super Bowl and my Step Dad and his friend said something like "shouldnt Spring Training be starting up here soon?" and when I told them about the strike they had no idea. 

My Step Dad is usually who I use as the barometer for casual fan, he's somebody that watches about half of the games but doesn't listen to sports talk radio and certainly doesn't go on the internet to talk about sports. Any sports information he gets is from the local news and my siblings and me. 

Probably true.  I suspect it will become more evident if this drags long enough that the start of the season is impacted.

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

It's .109 if you exclude AL.  

LOL   - that doesn't say much for how much even pitchers that do have to hit care about their hitting - you'd think they would have to be better than guys who only face live pitching a few times a year if that. Then again I suppose the AL pitchers don't have enough AB to push the numbers a lot anyway.

[mtutiger]

2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I wonder how many casual fans even know there is a strike going on right now? I was at my parents yesterday for the Super Bowl and my Step Dad and his friend said something like "shouldnt Spring Training be starting up here soon?" and when I told them about the strike they had no idea. 

My Step Dad is usually who I use as the barometer for casual fan, he's somebody that watches about half of the games but doesn't listen to sports talk radio and certainly doesn't go on the internet to talk about sports. Any sports information he gets is from the local news and my siblings and me. 

This is why I suspect things may fall into place sooner or later post Super Bowl... outside the diehards, people don't know about or are thinking about the strike.

[chasfh]

If it's baseball you want to watch, ESPN+ is going to have dozens of college games every day available to watch starting on Thursday.

[Tenacious D]

35 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If it's baseball you want to watch, ESPN+ is going to have dozens of college games every day available to watch starting on Thursday.

Which university is Javy Baez playing at?

[oblong]

I wonder how many casual fans know or care that it’s a lockout or a strike. I suspect the more casual the more likely they think it’s a strike and the players are selfish and “just want more money. Kaline refused a raise you know?” 

[sabretooth]

I think the success of soccer demonstrates that you don't have to be exciting to remain popular.

Baseball can only hurt itself by trying too hard to be up-to-date.

Younger people won't know that the changes have been made and won't be able to appreciate the efforts to modernize; if they were not interested in 2010 or 2020, they will still probably be disinterested in 2030 no matter what changes are made.

And folks like me who see little or no benefit to the changes, and who **like** baseball's presumptive nod to preservation, feel like our perspective is laughed at for no other reason than some people like change for change's sake.

Promoting modernization for baseball is a lose-lose proposition.  It ain't broke....don't "fix" it.

[sabretooth]

I can live with.....

- pitch clocks, because the modern Jeter-ization of batting routines was getting ridiculous, and requiring pitchers to stay in for 3 batters eliminates the modern overutilization of relievers.

I'm also interested in...

- trying to limit the overshift, because it's reinforcing the current no-balls-in-play K-or-HR aspect of baseball which makes it more juvenile and boring IMHO.  

I don't like....

- the universal DH, but that battle was basically lost decades ago. 

I absolutely HATE....

- the extra-inning baserunner thing; it was just an abomination, and reeked of the little leagues.

I am very frightened of....

- the further expansion of the playoffs seriously threatens to ruin the UNIQUE value of baseball as a marathon season, which reinforces it's un-clocked/timeless/eternal aspect.

Bottom line: baseball can be rough, mean, dirty, and childish, just like any other sport, but I **really** cherish the grown-up and contemplative part of baseball, which no other sport can touch.

[buddha]

soccer is much more exciting than baseball.

the best thing about baseball is that its boring and you dont actually have to pay attention.  put it on in the background and go do yard work...

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

soccer is much more exciting than baseball.

 

acquired taste I guess. I'd rather watch paint dry.

[buddha]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

. I'd rather watch paint dry.

no wonder you like baseball.

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

no wonder you like baseball.

I suppose there is nothing wrong with soccer that shrinking the ball, giving the players sticks and moving to ice couldn't fix.

Edited February 15, 2022 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I suppose there is nothing wrong with soccer that shrinking the ball, giving the players sticks and moving to ice couldn't fix.

i suppose if you dont like strategy and tactics, you can watch "soccer on crack", which is hockey.

[Wockenfussy]

1)A 14-team playoff is the worst possible change which can come from the negotiations.

2)The draft lottery makes little sense as a #1 pick isn't a near sure thing as in football or basketball.

3) I prefer no DH, but I recognize that's not realistic. If MLB goes full DH, let it evolve as it will, including not limiting the number of AB's a player can have as DH. Results will determine how that "position" plays out over time. 

4) Reality is that unless and until the owners and players both recognize the game requires a fully-empowered independent commissioner who represents the best interests of the game instead of one side or another, the game can't be as good as it can be. Not even close.

5) As a subset of #4, 1-2 years after Bud Selig passes away, MLB will pass an asterisk ruling regarding key records broken during the steroid era, i.e., taking aways the McGwire, Bonds and Sosa records, and restoring Henry Aaron as the Home Run king. Why not before Selig passes? Because Manfred and the owners care more about the legacy of their own than they do about the integrity or legacy of the game. Which is why the game urgently needs #4. 

[Tigeraholic1]

 

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, buddha said:

soccer is much more exciting than baseball...

Hmmm...

Let me think about that...

Bunch of guys run to the left, then they run to the right,

Kicking a ball... cool. They run to the left, and then back to the right.

And then they run back to the left again, kicking that ball.

And then they run back to the right again, kicking that ball.

They run to the left, and then they run to the right.

And now they are running back to the left.

And now they are running back to the right.

They run to the left, kicking that ball, and then run to the right, kicking that ball.

Oh Look! They're running to the left!

Oh look! They are running to the right!

Then they run to the left once more, and they actually kick it at the goalie... but he grabs the ball and he kicks it himself.

Now they are running back to the right, and they actually kick it at the goalie... but he grabs the ball and he kicks it himself.

So they run it back to the left... and then they run it back to the right.

There's a lot of running back and forth, right to left.

And left to right.

Right to left, left to right.

Again and again and again.

Right to left, left to right.

Oh look! 

They're running that ball to the left!

Oh wait! 

No, they're running that ball to the right!

Someone must have scored because I hear the announcer shout "GOAL, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL!!!!!"

Did someone just score 5 goals? No? That was just one? Damn, I missed it! Got tired turning my head back and forth to the left and to the right. With nothing happening but that ball being kicked around a lot. Left to right. Right to left.

The game ends you say, score 1-0.

Did I miss anything? My neck hurts going back and forth all afternoon. This is not better than tennis. BTW: Who won?

Could I please have some baseball, or football (American), or basketball, or some good old hockey please?

Edited February 15, 2022 by 1984Echoes

[gehringer_2]

one thing that soccer could use is a sidewall all the way around so the ball stays in play. Maybe a low wall just a couple feet high (which would stop most rollers) and then glass or tight screen above that so it can be seen through but still keep the ball in play ball. It would end the interminable throw ins and open up all kinds of rebound passing.

...don't mention it, glad to have helped. When does baseball start again?

Edited February 15, 2022 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

3 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Hmmm...

Let me think about that...

Bunch of guys run to the left, then they run to the right,

Kicking a ball... cool. They run to the left, and then back to the right.

And then they run back to the left again, kicking that ball.

And then they run back to the right again, kicking that ball.

They run to the left, and then they run to the right.

And now they are running back to the left.

And now they are running back to the right.

They run to the left, kicking that ball, and then run to the right, kicking that ball.

Oh Look! They're running to the left!

Oh look! They are running to the right!

Then they run to the left once more, and they actually kick it at the goalie... but he grabs the ball and he kicks it himself.

Now they are running back to the right, and they actually kick it at the goalie... but he grabs the ball and he kicks it himself.

So they run it back to the left... and then they run it back to the right.

There's a lot of running back and forth, right to left.

And left to right.

Right to left, left to right.

Again and again and again.

Right to left, left to right.

Oh look! 

They're running that ball to the left!

Oh wait! 

No, they're running that ball to the right!

Someone must have scored because I hear the announcer shout "GOAL, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL!!!!!"

Did someone just score 5 goals? No? That was just one? Damn, I missed it! Got tired turning my head back and forth to the left and to the right. With nothing happening but that ball being kicked around a lot. Left to right. Right to left.

The game ends you say, score 1-0.

Did I miss anything? My neck hurts going back and forth all afternoon. This is not better than tennis. BTW: Who won?

Could I please have some baseball, or football (American), or basketball, or some good old hockey please?

dumb

 

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

one thing that soccer could use is a sidewall all the way around so the ball stays in play. Maybe a low wall just a couple feet high (which would stop most rollers) and then glass or tight screen above that so it can be seen through but still keep the ball in play ball. It would end the interminable throw ins and open up all kinds of rebound passing.

...don't mention it, glad to have helped. When does baseball start again?

and dumber.