LOCKOUT '22: When will we see baseball again?

[chasfh]

11 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Hmmm...

Let me think about that...

Bunch of guys run to the left, then they run to the right,

Kicking a ball... cool. They run to the left, and then back to the right.

And then they run back to the left again, kicking that ball.

And then they run back to the right again, kicking that ball.

They run to the left, and then they run to the right.

And now they are running back to the left.

And now they are running back to the right.

They run to the left, kicking that ball, and then run to the right, kicking that ball.

Oh Look! They're running to the left!

Oh look! They are running to the right!

Then they run to the left once more, and they actually kick it at the goalie... but he grabs the ball and he kicks it himself.

Now they are running back to the right, and they actually kick it at the goalie... but he grabs the ball and he kicks it himself.

So they run it back to the left... and then they run it back to the right.

There's a lot of running back and forth, right to left.

And left to right.

Right to left, left to right.

Again and again and again.

Right to left, left to right.

Oh look! 

They're running that ball to the left!

Oh wait! 

No, they're running that ball to the right!

Someone must have scored because I hear the announcer shout "GOAL, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL!!!!!"

Did someone just score 5 goals? No? That was just one? Damn, I missed it! Got tired turning my head back and forth to the left and to the right. With nothing happening but that ball being kicked around a lot. Left to right. Right to left.

The game ends you say, score 1-0.

Did I miss anything? My neck hurts going back and forth all afternoon. This is not better than tennis. BTW: Who won?

Could I please have some baseball, or football (American), or basketball, or some good old hockey please?

 

[oblong]

I think I have more friends who's kids play soccer than baseball.... meaning more than just playing on a school team.  I'm talking club teams, etc.  Two friends have kids who just got college scholarships, UM and Carnegie Mellon..

 

[Tiger337]

I do like the relegation aspect of soccer.  There is no tanking in European soccer.  

[buddha]

soccer is the rich kids sport here,its the working class sport almost everywhere else in the world.

you dont have to be an athletic mutant to be good either.  messi and maradona are both small guys.

[RandyMarsh]

I live across the street from a couple little league baseball diamonds and it of course gets used during the summer for the Little League teams but other than that it is never used. It's not locked up or anything yet you don't see any kids playing any sandlot baseball at all. Like when I was a kid almost everyday kids in our neighborhood were up at the baseball diamond playing games, whether it was 3 on 3 with ghostrunners and oppo field out or sometimes even like 6 on 6.  There were always kids playing yet I never see that at the field across the street. It makes me sad actually. 

[buddha]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

I do like the relegation aspect of soccer.  There is no tanking in European soccer.  

and you dont have to win it all to be rewarded.  there are multiple competitions that teams compete in.  the regular season means something because if you do well (top 4 in big leagues, top 2 in others) youre rewarded by playing in extra competitions the next year.

but its not like here where half the league makes the "playoff" and that decides a champion.  the champion is the team that finished with the best record in the regular season.

plus there's the national team aspect that doesnt exist in us sports.

[buddha]

and like lee said, if you fail, you actually pay a price.  unlike in the us where you are rewarded for failure.

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

and you dont have to win it all to be rewarded.  there are multiple competitions that teams compete in.  the regular season means something because if you do well (top 4 in big leagues, top 2 in others) youre rewarded by playing in extra competitions the next year.

but its not like here where half the league makes the "playoff" and that decides a champion.  the champion is the team that finished with the best record in the regular season.

 

I like that.  How do the extra competitions fit into the regular season schedule?  

[buddha]

7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I like that.  How do the extra competitions fit into the regular season schedule?  

they play them intermittently in the middle of the week (tues or wed for champions league, thursday for europa league).

there are also cup competitions that take place during the season.  the nba is toying with doing one of those.

it all adds up to lots of games.  even more when you throw in international competitions like world cup and regional championship qualifying.

[1984Echoes]

49 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Going off of my 13 yo son and his athletic friends none of them play soccer (They all play Baseball, Football, Basketball). The idea they like to say is the non athletic kids play soccer, they are also the socially awkward kids playing soccer, I dunno.

I think it's more fun to play than watch.

Sort of like golf, tennis, etc...

And it certainly ain't non-athletic kids. Because they can run ALL day long. I've played very little (I can count the times on one hand), but I don't mind running around chasing and kicking the ball. I'm not good at it at all. But watching it is something entirely different to me. The strategy is inconsequential to me... I'm not interested in soccer strategy because I'm not interested in soccer.

It's cheap (a round ball and any open space anywhere, anytime, that's it); and easy to play, which makes it popular. 

I won't deny that it's popular, it is. Around the world. Not as much in the U.S., but the US is gaining steam... But people go crazy for it in almost any other country. The top sport in almost any other country. Especially the Latin countries south of our border. 

I grew up prior to the US's current soccer phase, when it practically didn't exist. Certainly not in Michigan. But my cousins (on my mom's side, moved from Detroit to Margate in 1971) a bit younger than me growing up in South Florida were all into soccer. Lots of sunshine, lots of fields, lots of kids running around. That, and the huge influx of Latinos (Cubans, Dominican, Puerto Rican, Venezuelan, Mexican, etc...) from all over starting in the 1960's have greatly increased its popularity in the US. And not just with Latinos either. And... the creation/ growth/ popularity of MLS has also been a boon to its popularity.

But I grew up before this. And I don't play the game. And I don't like watching it, it's extremely boring to me. Just a bunch of guys running back and forth, back and forth, kicking a ball.

Sorry... I'm just not interested. I don't hate it. Just doesn't grab my attention.

[Tigeraholic1]

15 minutes ago, buddha said:

soccer is the rich kids sport here,its the working class sport almost everywhere else in the world.

you dont have to be an athletic mutant to be good either.  messi and maradona are both small guys.

Yes, most travel soccer teams seem to be this way. Those kids would not survive an AAU basketball Tourney. Parents are brutal to kids on the other team. My kid last weekend got elbowed in the side of the head and went down. The ref stopped the game so he could gather himself. A mom on the other team yelled "Get this cry baby off the floor".

[Tigeraholic1]

7 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I think it's more fun to play than watch.

Sort of like golf, tennis, etc...

And it certainly ain't non-athletic kids. Because they can run ALL day long. I've played very little (I can count the times on one hand), but I don't mind running around chasing and kicking the ball. I'm not good at it at all. But watching it is something entirely different to me. The strategy is inconsequential to me... I'm not interested in soccer strategy because I'm not interested in soccer.

It's cheap (a round ball and any open space anywhere, anytime, that's it); and easy to play, which makes it popular. 

I won't deny that it's popular, it is. Around the world. Not as much in the U.S., but the US is gaining steam... But people go crazy for it in almost any other country. The top sport in almost any other country. Especially the Latin countries south of our border. 

I grew up prior to the US's current soccer phase, when it practically didn't exist. Certainly not in Michigan. But my cousins (on my mom's side, moved from Detroit to Margate in 1971) a bit younger than me growing up in South Florida were all into soccer. Lots of sunshine, lots of fields, lots of kids running around. That, and the huge influx of Latinos (Cubans, Dominican, Puerto Rican, Venezuelan, Mexican, etc...) from all over starting in the 1960's have greatly increased its popularity in the US. And not just with Latinos either. And... the creation/ growth/ popularity of MLS has also been a boon to its popularity.

But I grew up before this. And I don't play the game. And I don't like watching it, it's extremely boring to me. Just a bunch of guys running back and forth, back and forth, kicking a ball.

Sorry... I'm just not interested. I don't hate it. Just doesn't grab my attention.

It's like a religion to a number of countries. I have a lot of Columbian family down there and they go nuts for it. However baseball is almost as popular, not american baseball or MLB but local teams. They sell out almost all their games and they have a ton of in game mannerisms. They make the wave look like childs play, its wild to watch during the game when you are there very entertaining.

[Motor City Sonics]

Don't pitchers and catchers report this week? 

 

Oh yeah...............forgot..................stupidity and greed.

[MichiganCardinal]

15 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Yes, most travel soccer teams seem to be this way. Those kids would not survive an AAU basketball Tourney. Parents are brutal to kids on the other team. My kid last weekend got elbowed in the side of the head and went down. The ref stopped the game so he could gather himself. A mom on the other team yelled "Get this cry baby off the floor".

As a sports official, I won’t work youth baseball anymore for this same reason. I work college and semi-pro baseball, but won’t do travel baseball. I never worked basketball or soccer, but would be the same way.

I will work youth football for select leagues, because if game admin does their job and keeps the parents in the bleachers, there is a degree of separation.

After I was verbally accosted at the age of 14 by a 40-something 6’ tall dude in a muscle shirt while working a seven year old softball game, nah, I’m good.

People can keep wondering why there is a massive officials shortage and why the officials who show up for those youth games suck though.

[CaliforniaDreaming]

22 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

As a sports official, I won’t work youth baseball anymore for this same reason. I work college and semi-pro baseball, but won’t do travel baseball. I never worked basketball or soccer, but would be the same way.

I will work youth football for select leagues, because if game admin does their job and keeps the parents in the bleachers, there is a degree of separation.

After I was verbally accosted at the age of 14 by a 40-something 6’ tall dude in a muscle shirt while working a seven year old softball game, nah, I’m good.

People can keep wondering why there is a massive officials shortage and why the officials who show up for those youth games suck though.

I used to referee basketball.  It was most often a great way for me to stay connected to the sport (since I wasn't tall enough or good enough to continue playing it).  I worked one elementary school 3-on-3 fundraising tournament.  It was hell.  Those parents were ruthless.  I refused to ever do a tournament like that ever again.

[chasfh]

58 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

It's like a religion to a number of countries. I have a lot of Columbian family down there and they go nuts for it. However baseball is almost as popular, not american baseball or MLB but local teams. They sell out almost all their games and they have a ton of in game mannerisms. They make the wave look like childs play, its wild to watch during the game when you are there very entertaining.

I wonder whether a lot of the appeal of soccer, outside its simplicity, has to do with national pride. The World Cup is the biggest sports event in the world outside of the northern part of North America. It's a chance for little countries to upset big countries on the pitch. It's pretty thrilling from that perspective.

[Jim Cowan]

I used to coach football, there were three leagues:  under 8 to 10, 11 to 12, and 13 to 14.  I would send a letter home with each kid at the start of the season, telling parents that they had to behave themselves at the games and not to respond to idiot parents on other teams.  Also, I told them in that letter that if they were interested in coaching, come on out.  So that they wouldn't be complaining about the coaches without getting called out on it.  

A friend of mine had a kid on the team one year and was sitting beside another dad at a game, and the other guy was complaining about play calling or something, and my friend turned to him and said "didn't you get the letter?" lol

[Biff Mayhem]

This thread needs some Biggs ref input.

[davidsb623]

Simple cure for bad parents.  Tell the coach if they do not shut their parents up immediately, the game will be forfeited, works every time.  Of course, I have only used this approach at the little league level and will usually let it go on for a short while to see if they get tired of yelling at me as I ignore them.  Umpires also need to have thick skin and not be so easily offended either.

[MichiganCardinal]

28 minutes ago, davidsb623 said:

Umpires also need to have thick skin and not be so easily offended either.

Why is that? These are often young children playing a sport they barely know, because their parents are making them. These officials are making $30 or $40 a game plus a hot dog, and oftentimes are kids themselves. 

People verbally accost officials one day and then are up in arms when their game is rescheduled for lack of officials the next. If "thick skin" is a job prerequisite, you're taking out quite a lot of very good, qualified officials for something that has absolutely no bearing on the game.

[MichiganCardinal]

I used to oversee umpires for a moderately sized Little League in the area. I used almost exclusively youth umpires, working their first job.

When grown men are calling my 16-year-old umpires "pencil neck", telling them they're too skinny and need to eat a cheeseburger, getting chest-to-chest on a field with another coach in front of them, flipping them off on the field, and telling them they'll meet them in the parking lot (all very real scenarios that happened either in that league or another), how do we seriously expect these kids to say "yeah I want to keep doing this! I want to get better!"

They either quit on the spot, or stay with it long enough to make some pocket change in high school. They don't stay on as officials when they go to college. They don't become the good 20-30yo officials you want working high school games, or beyond. Then the officials you get are retired 60-70yos and people complain because they are old and can't move.

Ultimately, the problem is not with the official, it's with the coaches, parents, adults, and society generally that thinks it's okay to yell at other people in a kid's game, because that person who is working "should have a thick skin".

[alex]

4 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I live across the street from a couple little league baseball diamonds and it of course gets used during the summer for the Little League teams but other than that it is never used. It's not locked up or anything yet you don't see any kids playing any sandlot baseball at all. Like when I was a kid almost everyday kids in our neighborhood were up at the baseball diamond playing games, whether it was 3 on 3 with ghostrunners and oppo field out or sometimes even like 6 on 6.  There were always kids playing yet I never see that at the field across the street. It makes me sad actually. 

Yes, in many, many areas that was the norm. Actually most all had fun and exercise to boot. It is just a different time. Of course there are leagues but I think kids could have fun with pick-up games again, but there are so many choices now and physical activity is sometimes frowned upon - which is sad, all in IMHO of course.

[oblong]

Idiot parents will be in for a rude awakening in about 3-4 years. Officials are aging out and there won’t be any left. 

[MichiganCardinal]

4 minutes ago, oblong said:

Idiot parents will be in for a rude awakening in about 3-4 years. Officials are aging out and there won’t be any left. 

20 years ago there were about 13,000 MHSAA registered officials. Today, there are about 7,000. The trend is going nowhere but down.

[oblong]

1 minute ago, MichiganCardinal said:

20 years ago there were about 13,000 MHSAA registered officials. Today, there are about 7,000. The trend is going nowhere but down.

My brother in law is in his 70s and still does baseball and basketball. But I don’t know how he can keep it up.