LOCKOUT '22: When will we see baseball again?

[RandyMarsh]

Makes me sad knowing that the Tigers would be playing the Nationals right now if it weren't for the lockout. 

[gehringer_2]

4 hours ago, Longgone said:

There is no differentiating between the two, just misuse of the term, which I admit, is becoming common……

Language curmudgeons of the world, unite!  

[Tiger337]

One thing which is not commonplace is for an industry to have an anti-trust exemption allowing it to behave like a monopoly.  

Edited February 26, 2022 by Tiger337

[Longgone]

37 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

One thing which is not commonplace is for an industry to have an anti-trust exemption allowing it to behave like a monopoly.  

How is that relevant to the labor contract? How are they any more a monopoly than the NFL or the NBA.

[sabretooth]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Language curmudgeons of the world, unite!  

yeah, the use of the word socialism in the context of describing MLB is strictly an ad hominem effort to discredit any argument made based on free market principles.  

Also, the MLB anti trust exemption shouldnt exist, but if were the cause of the MLBs predominance in baseball, that wouldnt explain how the NBA, NHL and NFL got to the same relative position in their respective sports without the exemption.

Edited February 26, 2022 by sabretooth

[1776]

Not looking good at all for scheduled opening day. Oh well…

[Tigermojo]

Hostile meeting today apparently.

[HeyAbbott]

I wonder what the over/under is on the season starting by May 1? I personally think that an avalanche of animosity will be released at 12:01 AM March 1 when there is no deal. Give them a two week cool down and additional 2 weeks of negotiations and 4 weeks of spring training that makes May 1 probably the early date. I still think no MLB baseball until July 1.

Edited February 27, 2022 by HeyAbbott
punctuation

[Tenacious D]

53 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said:

I wonder what the over/under is on the season starting by May 1? I personally think that an avalanche of animosity will be released at 12:01 AM March 1 when there is no deal. Give them a two week cool down and additional 2 weeks of negotiations and 4 weeks of spring training that makes May 1 probably the early date. I still think no MLB baseball until July 1.

Seems insane to me that this can’t get worked out, based on the potential damage to a game whose interest is waning amongst a younger demographic.  Seems a bit shortsighted, but the owners can weather any financial storm and will likely dig in.

[Tiger337]

18 hours ago, Tigermojo said:

Hostile meeting today apparently.

Tony Clark has been holding it in for 30 years.  You finally broke him and it's going to get ugly.  

[buddha]

the owners have a really good system that guarantees them a lot of profits.  i can see why they dont want to change it substantially.

the problem for me is that owners want to institute necessary changes in the pace of play and the players wont agree to it without getting more money.

i wonder what the dymanic behind the scenes within the ownership group is?  the big owners surely want to pay less revenue sharing and less tax, but the small owners want more revenue sharing and dont give a damn about the tax.  small owners probably dont want arbitration messed with at all, and probably dont want to increase minimum salaries.  how do the players - who obviously side with big spending big markets - split them from the small owners and get enough middle market owners to embrace a more moderate position?  an international draft?  give up some of the salary increases for first three years in exchange for a higher luxury tax ceiling?

[Tigeraholic1]

 

[Jim Cowan]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Tony Clark has been holding it in for 30 years.  You finally broke him and it's going to get ugly.  

He doesn't care about the bargaining process, you can tell from the expression on his face.

[HeyAbbott]

All either side cares about at this point is putting it to the other side. When this bs passing for negotiations breaks down, a long cooling off period will probably be the order of the day. After Monday, I anticipate no "session" until after St. Paddy's Day.

[Motor City Sonics]

Burn down all the stadiums that were publicly funded.   You want a new one?  YOU pay for it!

[Jim Cowan]

6 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Burn down all the stadiums that were publicly funded.   You want a new one?  YOU pay for it!

Lol, I've been arguing against the alleged economic benefits of publically funded stadiums for decades.

[diaspora04]

6 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Lol, I've been arguing against the alleged economic benefits of publically funded stadiums for decades.

With respect, you seemed to be ok with some of the contracts for recent renovation jobs going to the Adduci organization.  Perhaps, however, you were merely making an observation.  I will admit that those Adduci companies do seem pretty efficient in getting COs issued, especially in Toledo.  I heard one account of a fully executed "blank check" CO that "Jimmy just needs to fill in what they did."

[Motor City Sonics]

6 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Lol, I've been arguing against the alleged economic benefits of publically funded stadiums for decades.

Look, what I said was obviously a joke and would have gotten me thrown off of Facebook.  But I think the cities need to find a way to punish these owners for missing games.   The cities that own the stadiums.   This is 100% on the owners.  They obviously have no desire for baseball in April.   Stop screwing the fans.    Arguing over millions and billions. 

A million seconds is about 11 days.  A billion seconds is about 31 years.    The stuff they are bitching about won't even touch them.  It would be like the equivalent of accidentally sucking up a couple of dimes in the vacuum at your local Car Wash.   At some point you're going to wish you had that 20 cents at a vending machine, but it's not going really to alter your life.  

Fire Rob Manfred and then after that Fire Brad Ausmus and Matt Patricia too.  

Edited February 28, 2022 by Motor City Sonics

[RedRamage]

On 2/25/2022 at 4:55 PM, chasfh said:

Getting rid of the leagues entirely, even if they renamed them after Babe Ruth and Jackie Robinson, might be a third rail issue.

 

One interesting aspect of not using geography as the first level of dividing teams is that it allows people to root for other local teams without necessarily feeling disloyal to their primary team.  Not sure how much in practice this happens or not but I do remember back in the Peyton years that I semi-rooted for the Colts.  There's no way I would have done that if they were direct competition to the Lions making the playoffs.  Likewise I kinda root for the Cubs, but would never do that if the Tigers were up against them for playoff positioning.

I don't know how much rivalries still play a part in baseball either, but there's potential to lose some of those if geography was the first layer of separation.  There no way the Braves would be in the same group as the Phillies or Mets.

[chasfh]

19 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Seems insane to me that this can’t get worked out, based on the potential damage to a game whose interest is waning amongst a younger demographic.  Seems a bit shortsighted, but the owners can weather any financial storm and will likely dig in.

This might concern Baseball if they cared as much about the younger demographic as they do the gambler demographic.

[RedRamage]

On 2/25/2022 at 5:12 PM, Tiger337 said:

Realigning geographically is always a fun exercise, but I don't know what it accomplishes.  If half the teams are going to make the playoffs, why even have divisions?  Every team plays every team 5 or 6 times and then the top 14 make the playoffs.

The two downsides to this:

1. Generally speaking: The big city teams have the most money to spend and have the most success.  Geographical alignment and division winners getting playoff spots ensures that someone from "middle America" will get in the playoffs.  (This is somewhat mitigated by so mean freakin' teams making the playoffs of course.)

2. Only seeing teams for two series really intensifies the whole "It's not who you play, but when you play them" axiom. By sheer luck you could avoid having to face the ace(s) of a particular teams staff.  Or you might face them when key players are injured. In theory a teams luck would average out you'd expect, but I think there would still be plenty of instances were this could come into play.

[casimir]

On 1/6/2022 at 12:16 PM, casimir said:

I suspect they ramp up before and there will be a vote around the time of the SB.  That way a bad result can be swept under the rug of the SB.

Swing & a miss.

[chasfh]

 

players' fault tho

[RandyMarsh]

I'm sure the owners don't mind missing that first month when outside of Opening Day attendance figures are usually always relatively low. Particularly in all the cold weather cities. 

[Tiger337]

Jobe has the face of a player that is going to be either really good or really bad.  There will be no in between.