LOCKOUT '22: When will we see baseball again?

[Tiger337]

22 minutes ago, buddha said:

why do you say that?

Are you serious?  Manfred sucks!

[1776]

As much as I would have preferred they start on time, this doesn’t really bother me. I guess this was an expectation all along. Minor league games will start on time which makes life good for an “OK Boomer” like myself. There are two weeks during the MiLB season when Toledo, Erie, and WM are all at home the same week. I’d like to think we could see those three parks/teams this summer. Still lots of good ball without the majors. 

[buddha]

19 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Are you serious?  Manfred sucks!

what did people expect him to say?  i heard his speech and it was exactly what any executive would say.  we thank the union for participating and we look forward to negotiating more but we gave up a lot and we couldnt come to an agreement.  union comes up and says the opposite.  rinse, repeat.

[buddha]

its good to hear that the league wants to institute pitch clocks by 2023, along with banning the shift and larger bases.

the pitch clock, at least, is a positive sign.  

[Tiger337]

This would have bothered me a lot more a few years ago.  I still love the game but just don't get as excited about the season as much as I used to.  It used to be a huge part of my life, but There are other things going on in my life that are getting my attention.  I will continue to read and sometimes write about baseball history/statistics and hopefully watch more minor league games this year.     

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

what did people expect him to say?  i heard his speech and it was exactly what any executive would say.   

Right, an empty suit.  He doesn't give a shit about the fans or the game except for the money he can get out of it.   I'll never forget the day he said they were going to expand playoffs because Americans love brackets!  I have never seen anyone care less about the game than him. 

 

 

[Tiger337]

12 minutes ago, buddha said:

its good to hear that the league wants to institute pitch clocks by 2023, along with banning the shift and larger bases.

the pitch clock, at least, is a positive sign.  

The pitch clock would be good.  I am sure they'll find a way to screw it up, but there is potential there.  

[Tigermojo]

Reading about each side's current position doesn't seem that far off. Both sides have made some concessions. Both sides are trying to add things they have never had before. I think it would be smart to be conservative with those ideas and they can easily drop some of those proposals or set them up on a trial basis year by year. They don't have to be part of the five year deal.

[buddha]

10 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Right, an empty suit.  He doesn't give a shit about the fans or the game except for the money he can get out of it.   I'll never forget the day he said they were going to expand playoffs because Americans love brackets!  I have never seen anyone care less about the game than him. 

 

 

he's the face of the corporation, did you expect him to get up there and cry?  he got up and told the owners story.

youre like people arguing that tony clark should have showed more emotion as a player and because he didnt, he didnt love the game.

[buddha]

6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

The pitch clock would be good.  I am sure they'll find a way to screw it up, but there is potential there.  

the pitch clock is a good idea.  the actual enforcement of it would be even better.

step 2: you cant step out of the box.

let us return to the sanity of 2 hour baseball games again.

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

he's the face of the corporation, did you expect him to get up there and cry?  he got up and told the owners story.

youre like people arguing that tony clark should have showed more emotion as a player and because he didnt, he didnt love the game.

No, I don't expect someone of his ilk to be honest or care about anything beyond money.  I EXPECTED him to say something stupid and he did.  That doesn't excuse him for saying something stupid.

 

[oblong]

33 minutes ago, buddha said:

what did people expect him to say?  i heard his speech and it was exactly what any executive would say.  we thank the union for participating and we look forward to negotiating more but we gave up a lot and we couldnt come to an agreement.  union comes up and says the opposite.  rinse, repeat.

Just because you know what they are going to say doesn’t mean you can’t call it out for being bullshit.  

[buddha]

15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

No, I don't expect someone of his ilk to be honest or care about anything beyond money.  I EXPECTED him to say something stupid and he did.  That doesn't excuse him for saying something stupid.

 

he didnt say anything stupid.  he stated the owners position on the negotiations.

[Edman85]

If the fans were the top of his priority list, they would have caved and started the season on time.

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

he didnt say anything stupid.  he stated the owners position on the negotiations.

I thought it was stupid and dishonest to the point of being hilarious.  

[SoCalTiger]

Are they really that far apart or financially strapped that they can’t just split the difference and settle?

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, SoCalTiger said:

Are they really that far apart or financially strapped that they can’t just split the difference and settle?

I still think it will be close to a full season.  They'll play chicken a little while longer and start the season some time in April.  

[SoCalTiger]

Wow MLB has already emailed me saying they won’t charge me for the 2022 season until...wait for it...there is a season !!

How fn big of them. 

[SoCalTiger]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I still think it will be close to a full season.  They'll play chicken a little while longer and start the season some time in April.  

I hope your right. I have no idea. 

[Edman85]

8 hours ago, chasfh said:

Do you believe MLB revenue has not gone up and/or player comp has not declined?

Player comp has declined since 2017...

 

However I have seen some twisty ways of calculating said decline that exaggerate it.  Here's raw data.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-mlb-sports-business-health-7257a7c73e1e66aef4979986d5c5c864

[buddha]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

Right, an empty suit.  He doesn't give a shit about the fans or the game except for the money he can get out of it.   I'll never forget the day he said they were going to expand playoffs because Americans love brackets!  I have never seen anyone care less about the game than him. 

 

 

do you think give a shit about the fans?

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Player comp has declined since 2017...

 

However I have seen some twisty ways of calculating said decline that exaggerate it.  Here's raw data.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-mlb-sports-business-health-7257a7c73e1e66aef4979986d5c5c864

FWIW, Verducci just went on MLB state media and said straight up, without qualification, that “pay has gone down and the revenues have gone up”. This is well accepted throughout the game on all sides, and no one who seriously follows or covers the game would argue otherwise. If you want to argue that it’s not a problem, that’s something different. But you can’t argue that it’s not happening, or even that it appears that way only because of some twisty voodoo. 

[SoCalTiger]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

FWIW, Verducci just went on MLB state media and said straight up, without qualification, that “pay has gone down and the revenues have gone up”. This is well accepted throughout the game on all sides, and no one who seriously follows or covers the game would argue otherwise. If you want to argue that it’s not a problem, that’s something different. But you can’t argue that it’s not happening, or even that it appears that way only because of some twisty voodoo. 

Well you can’t blame the owners for using analytics and avoiding stupid contracts. 

Having said that I think the onus is on the owners since they had the better deal last time 

[Longgone]

9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

FWIW, Verducci just went on MLB state media and said straight up, without qualification, that “pay has gone down and the revenues have gone up”. This is well accepted throughout the game on all sides, and no one who seriously follows or covers the game would argue otherwise. If you want to argue that it’s not a problem, that’s something different. But you can’t argue that it’s not happening, or even that it appears that way only because of some twisty voodoo. 

Hard to believe revenues have gone up since '19 with a partial season in '20 and attendance way off last year.

[Tiger337]

46 minutes ago, buddha said:

do you think give a shit about the fans?

?

Do you mean "Do you think the players give a shit about the fans?"  Maybe one, but probably not two.  I am kind of neutral on the players position.  I would rather they gain more money than the owners, but I don't feel bad for them.  They are paid well.  It's not a social justice thing.   

Edited March 2, 2022 by Tiger337