LOCKOUT '22: When will we see baseball again?

[casimir]

45 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

I hope you get a chance to shake his hand some day.

Virtual fist bump over zoom.

[casimir]

7 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

The bacon-wrapped dates and charcuterie board were standouts.

Don’t eat from the one that Moises Alou brought.

[Tiger337]

It's really looking like they are going to ban shifts.  That is not something that matters a lot to me, but I think it's lame.  That was a smart strategy, not some silly gimmick.  There has never been any rule which stated the players had stay in a certain zone.  Hitters need to respond by making adjustments.  I know someone is going to say that's too hard for them to do, but I don't buy it.  They learned how to hit home runs.  In time, they can learn how to beat the shift.  

[casimir]

8 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

It's really looking like they are going to ban shifts.  That is not something that matters a lot to me, but I think it's lame.  That was a smart strategy, not some silly gimmick.  There has never been any rule which stated the players had stay in a certain zone.  Hitters need to respond by making adjustments.  I know someone is going to say that's too hard for them to do, but I don't buy it.  They learned how to hit home runs.  In time, they can learn how to beat the shift.  

You're right, but it doesn't fit the current grip it & rip it offensive culture.

[Cruzer1]

9 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

It's really looking like they are going to ban shifts.  That is not something that matters a lot to me, but I think it's lame.  That was a smart strategy, not some silly gimmick.  There has never been any rule which stated the players had stay in a certain zone.  Hitters need to respond by making adjustments.  I know someone is going to say that's too hard for them to do, but I don't buy it.  They learned how to hit home runs.  In time, they can learn how to beat the shift.  

You're not a lefty. Shifts are far more damaging to lefties.

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, Cruzer1 said:

You're not a lefty. Shifts are far more damaging to lefties.

Left-handed batters have their own advantages.  

[Sports_Freak]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:57 PM, gehringer_2 said:

I say this all the time and people think I'm joking but I'm not: but ban velco closures on batting gloves and you take 30 min off a baseball game. (snaps, buttons or zippers only!)

And maybe ban all the armor they wear. They get a bit too comfortable in the box. And if they're too injured to play, next man up.

[oblong]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

Left-handed batters have their own advantages.  

right.  They do things to take advantage of the situation because they've learned over the years it can be beneficial to do that.  The need for a shift wasn't always there.  The LH hitters figured out weakness.  So defenses attacked as well.  It's part of the gamemanship.

I'm reading the Ty Cobb book and have learned much of what made him so great early on was doing things that were unconventional that we take for granted today, such as being extra aggressive on the bases today.  Players would just casually lob the ball back into the IF and runners would be gentlemen and stay on their bag.  Cobb said screw that, I'm going.  Other players didn't like that.  Even something as changing his stance and grip at the last minute was considered "bush league" at the time.   I don't see this as any different. 

 

[Biff Mayhem]

Its the equivalent of saying that NFL teams can only play a nickel defense.

[chasfh]

 

[chasfh]

Baseball wants far higher taxes for going over the CBT limit, a much smaller arb bonus pool than Players’ current $80MM, and for Players to get the hell out of the way when Baseball makes whatever rules changes it wants.

Kind of like negotiating with a car dealer: sure, I’ll lower the price by $1,000, but I’m gonna give you $1,500 less for the trade-in.

[oblong]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

Baseball wants far higher taxes for going over the CBT limit, a much smaller arb bonus pool than Players’ current $80MM, and for Players to get the hell out of the way when Baseball makes whatever rules changes it wants.

Kind of like negotiating with a car dealer: sure, I’ll lower the price by $1,000, but I’m gonna give you $1,500 less for the trade-in.

 

[Sports_Freak]

11 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

It's really looking like they are going to ban shifts.  That is not something that matters a lot to me, but I think it's lame.  That was a smart strategy, not some silly gimmick.  There has never been any rule which stated the players had stay in a certain zone.  Hitters need to respond by making adjustments.  I know someone is going to say that's too hard for them to do, but I don't buy it.  They learned how to hit home runs.  In time, they can learn how to beat the shift.  

So if a SS dives for a ball near 2nd base, he better not go past some imaginary line or its considered a hit? Let them shift and start teaching hitters to use the whole field. That's one way to eliminate the defensive shifts.

[oblong]

I think the hitters know how to use the whole field... they just don't want to. that's an important distinction.  They want their advantage but defenses can't have theirs.

 

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, oblong said:

I think the hitters know how to use the whole field... they just don't want to. that's an important distinction.  They want their advantage but defenses can't have theirs.

 

exactly. Not matter how you slice it it always comes back to the ball. It is it advantageous to try to pull the ball *despite* the extra outs the shifted fielder makes now, because, and *only* because the HR/AB is as high as it is.  Teams are not losing OBP because they have to, but because they want to.

Edited March 7, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

They don't want to use the whole field because swinging for the fences is their best chance to score runs, shift or no shift.   

[Tiger337]

10 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

So if a SS dives for a ball near 2nd base, he better not go past some imaginary line or its considered a hit? Let them shift and start teaching hitters to use the whole field. That's one way to eliminate the defensive shifts.

I would guess they'll have a rule where all four infielders must stay on the dirt and there must be two infielders on both sides of second base before the pitch is thrown.  They can go anywhere they want after that.  

[casimir]

22 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I would guess they'll have a rule where all four infielders must stay on the dirt and there must be two infielders on both sides of second base before the pitch is thrown.  They can go anywhere they want after that.  

So a middle infielder will just be up the middle, or will stay off of the line a bit and time themselves moving to the other in tandem with the windup so that they cross the imaginary line legally but are still in a shift type of alignment.  Seems ridiculous to govern since that extra IF is pretty close to the middle anyway.

I guess keeping all 4 IFs on the grass will be a bit different.  Those shifts have the 2B or 3B out in short RF for LHHs, but RHHs typically have all 4 IFs on the dirt.  But again, if that's what the defense wants to do, have at it.

[Longgone]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Baseball wants far higher taxes for going over the CBT limit, a much smaller arb bonus pool than Players’ current $80MM, and for Players to get the hell out of the way when Baseball makes whatever rules changes it wants.

Kind of like negotiating with a car dealer: sure, I’ll lower the price by $1,000, but I’m gonna give you $1,500 less for the trade-in.

It's more like the KBB is $30k, and MLB says we'll give you $8, and the PA says we won't take less than $250k.

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, Longgone said:

It's more like the KBB is $30k, and MLB says we'll give you $8, and the PA says we won't take less than $250k.

Wrong.

[Longgone]

52 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Wrong.

They both need to negotiate, rather than nibbling at the edges of their offers. Nobody is going to force the other side to cave by holding out, that is a loser strategy. Deal with each others issues and negotiate.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Longgone

[chasfh]

47 minutes ago, Longgone said:

They both need to negotiate, rather than nibbling at the edges of their offers. Nobody is going to force the other side to cave by holding out, that is a loser strategy. Deal with each others issues and negotiate.

 

 

[CMRivdogs]

I'm to the point of wanting to lock Manfred, Clark and 1 lawyer from each side in a hotel room. Pipe in "music"from than dang drummer in Cleveland. No one gets out until they have an agreement

[Tigeraholic1]

I wonder if NFL Players Union is watching this play out for the next salary cap expansion strategy? Or is NFL structured different so this kind of thing can't happen?

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I wonder if NFL Players Union is watching this play out for the next salary cap expansion strategy? Or is NFL structured different so this kind of thing can't happen?

I believe in the NFL the cap adjusts automatically to maintain a constant % of revenue split. It's the no drama solutions we can only dream the two sides getting to in baseball.