LOCKOUT '22: When will we see baseball again?

[RatkoVarda]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

I really don’t think the season will be delayed. Both the players and owners know how quickly interest in the game will fade if the lockout delays the start of the season. 

if they were rational, yes; are they? not sure

[Longgone]

14 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I typically view Tanking as not trying to lose, but also not investing/committing to win

And sometimes it's prudent to rebuild, sometimes things are cyclical, sometimes it makes no sense to expend resources now, while simultaneously trading current assets for future ones. The goal is to build a future championship team, not a current mediocre one.

[1776]

2 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I typically view Tanking as not trying to lose, but also not investing/committing to win.

Tanking is not trying to win. It starts at the top. 

[Longgone]

45 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Tanking is not trying to win. It starts at the top. 

Everyone is trying to win. It's just like poker, sometimes you fold on a lousy opportunity to win now, for a better opportunity later.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Longgone

[Sports_Freak]

3 hours ago, Longgone said:

And sometimes it's prudent to rebuild, sometimes things are cyclical, sometimes it makes no sense to expend resources now, while simultaneously trading current assets for future ones. The goal is to build a future championship team, not a current mediocre one.

I think many teams are going the younger player route. And adding the veteran pieces as needed. 

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I think many teams are going the younger player route. And adding the veteran pieces as needed. 

Tigers probably are not the only team trying to get better defensively and today that also means younger players. I wonder if we will see anything new in training regimes used by middle infielders in particular, to try maintain fielding capability. But guys don't seem to mind if they 'outgrow' playing SS if they are having success hitting the long ball!

[Sports_Freak]

26 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Tigers probably are not the only team trying to get better defensively and today that also means younger players. I wonder if we will see anything new in training regimes used by middle infielders in particular, to try maintain fielding capability. But guys don't seem to mind if they 'outgrow' playing SS if they are having success hitting the long ball!

And younger players are under team control at affordable prices. When they start getting too expensive, trade or let them walk and start over. It's been going on for years but the Cubs and Royals are recent examples. My complaint is now it's our turn to start competing and it's a lockout/strike. Grrrrr.....

[chasfh]

Lockout. Not strike.

[buddha]

pre-emptive lockout or there would have been a strike.

[casimir]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

pre-emptive lockout or there would have been a strike.

Right.  We can just be honest about it and acknowledge that the CBA has expired.

[buddha]

4 minutes ago, casimir said:

Right.  We can just be honest about it and acknowledge that the CBA has expired.

yes, but the owners must be made out to be evil caricatures and the players to be saints.

its a simple labor business negotiation with each side using whatever leverage they have to benefit their interests.

[gehringer_2]

39 minutes ago, buddha said:

pre-emptive lockout or there would have been a strike.

so how does this work? What advantage does the lock-out give the owners compared to the players being on strike?  The lock-out prevents a strike vote, does that mean a proposed settlement doesn't require a vote before the players can come back?

Edited December 7, 2021 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

so how does this work? What advantage does the lock-out give the owners compared to the players being on strike?  The lock-out prevents a strike vote, does that mean a proposed settlement doesn't require a vote before the players can come back?

the lockout is so they stop paying expenses, i would imagine.  i dont know the details to it.

[Tenacious D]

On 12/3/2021 at 8:05 AM, Motor City Sonics said:

Just televise Mud Hens games.   We get to see the kids.    

Would they play some AAA games at the CoPa, or would that be some sort of violation?

[Tiger337]

8 hours ago, buddha said:

yes, but the owners must be made out to be evil caricatures and the players to be saints.

its a simple labor business negotiation with each side using whatever leverage they have to benefit their interests.

The owners are evil caricatures, but the players are not saints.  

[mtutiger]

55 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

The owners are evil caricatures, but the players are not saints.  

The thing about the players is that, compared to the owners, they are much less monolithic a group. You got some like the Scherzers who make a massive amount of money, while there are many others who play closer to the average lifespan of six years who don't make anywhere near that. 

And I just get the sense in these conversations is that when many say "the players", the Scherzers are the poster child, not the average ballplayer. I'm not losing any sleep over the Scherzers, but I do think the guys on the lower end have a case to make.

Edited December 8, 2021 by mtutiger

[IdahoBert]

[IdahoBert]

On 12/7/2021 at 5:53 PM, mtutiger said:

The thing about the players is that, compared to the owners, they are much less monolithic a group. You got some like the Scherzers who make a massive amount of money, while there are many others who play closer to the average lifespan of six years who don't make anywhere near that. 

And I just get the sense in these conversations is that when many say "the players", the Scherzers are the poster child, not the average ballplayer. I'm not losing any sleep over the Scherzers, but I do think the guys on the lower end have a case to make.

It’s much easier for the owners to use the “divide and conquer“ strategy than the players. 

[sabretooth]

This would all work just fine if the owners were as personally virtuous as the players 🙄

[Tigeraholic1]

1 hour ago, sabretooth said:

This would all work just fine if the owners were as personally virtuous as the players 🙄

Is your avatar a baseball game picture and a shadow of a cat?

[sabretooth]

10 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Is your avatar a baseball game picture and a shadow of a cat?

Ha!  Yes, I use a online TV, a PC, and projector for watching TV/movies...I was watching a game when my cat perched herself in between the projector and the screen....her shadow appeared to be stalking Johnathan Schoop 😃

[Motor City Sonics]

January 5, 2022. 

 

How are you feeling?    Are thing going about how you expected?  

We're only 6 weeks out from Spring Training and are the 2 sides actually even speaking at this point? 

Tony,  Rob.   Fix it.   The future of your game is at stake.   

[Tiger337]

It should start picking up soon.  Clark never does anything the first month.  This is about the time he starts heating up.    

[chasfh]

I think talks will start in earnest once the Super Bowl is done.

[casimir]

20 hours ago, chasfh said:

I think talks will start in earnest once the Super Bowl is done.

I suspect they ramp up before and there will be a vote around the time of the SB.  That way a bad result can be swept under the rug of the SB.