gehringer_2 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 36 minutes ago, casimir said: I also wonder about Keith at 3B as well. I thought I’ve heard Jung is better at 2B. I don’t know if that’s true, I don’t know if the theory of swapping them has legitimacy to it. I think if Jung is promoted and they’re on the IF at the same time, just keep going with status quo to finish this season. Just let them get this bit of MLB under their belts, continue this season with their respective defensive responsibilities, let their bats be the focus of their development this season. If altering them is in the cards, let them integrate some of that individual off-season prep into their upcoming winters, and start that teamwork in spring training. And maybe it’s not that big of a deal for either anyway as they do have experience around the diamond. Some of the early reporting about Jung gave the impression he was just a 'catch the ball' guy to whom anywhere on the field was pretty much the same - whereas for Keith the move to 2nd was going to be a bigger transition. But who knows what you can make of reporting like that? When they talk to the player he is probably the least reliable witness for his case. Edited July 26 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, chasfh said: You are right in that they've been one of the best hitting teams in baseball for the whole season, it's just lately they're flailing. Well, I never looked at the stats. Just the eye test, their offense scares me. But when pitching shuts them down, their pitching and defense seems suspect. I did say they're beatable, which makes the division more open. KC will eventually fade (I hope). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 14 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Some of the early reporting about Jung gave the impression he was just a 'catch the ball' guy to whom anywhere on the field was pretty much the same - whereas for Keith the move to 2nd was going to be a bigger transition. But who knows what you can make of reporting like that? When they talk to the player he is probably the least reliable witness for his case. What does "just a catch the ball guy" mean exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, casimir said: What does "just a catch the ball guy" mean exactly? That's my expression for a guy with what I would call natural fielding skill anywhere you put him so it doesn't matter where he plays. We've probably all played with good IFs that couldn't track a fly, good OFs that couldn't manage a hot grounder (me!), and then there are those guys who just catch the ball, anywhere. (i.e, guys Harris loves like McKinstry-who may or may not be gold glove anywhere but can be comfortable everywhere). So basically a guy you can move to a new position and expect little or no learning curve required. Edited July 27 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: That's my expression for a guy with what I would call natural fielding skill anywhere you put him so it doesn't matter where he plays. We've probably all played with good IFs that couldn't track a fly, good OFs that couldn't manage a hot grounder (me!), and then there are those guys who just catch the ball, anywhere. (i.e, guys Harris loves like McKinstry-who may or may not be gold glove anywhere but can be comfortable everywhere). So basically a guy you can move to a new position and expect little or no learning curve required. So what’s up with 3B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 12 minutes ago, casimir said: So what’s up with 3B? Failed Shortstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 3 hours ago, Tenacious D said: Failed Shortstop But it sounds like he’s failing or at least not passing 3B as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 10 minutes ago, casimir said: But it sounds like he’s failing or at least not passing 3B as well. and that's why I say you can't really go by much of what you hear from the people or reporters around the minors (well or the majors for that matter). When Jung was moved there were a number of stories that he was a 'natural' and it would be walk in the park for him, and likewise he put on a good face that he'd handle it. Not true? if not, by not just living with a less than ideal arm in Keith, are they letting the perfect be the enemy of the good in not having two guys in positions each may play better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: and that's why I say you can't really go by much of what you hear from the people or reporters around the minors (well or the majors for that matter). When Jung was moved there were a number of stories that he was a 'natural' and it would be walk in the park for him, and likewise he put on a good face that he'd handle it. Not true? if not, by not just living with a less than ideal arm in Keith, are they letting the perfect be the enemy of the good in not having two guys in positions each may play better? It’s not just the chatter about Jung at 3B. It’s the sub .900 fielding percentage, too. Now, we understand fielding percentage isn’t an end all be all by itself. But under .900? That’s awfully eye opening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 46 minutes ago, casimir said: It’s not just the chatter about Jung at 3B. It’s the sub .900 fielding percentage, too. Now, we understand fielding percentage isn’t an end all be all by itself. But under .900? That’s awfully eye opening. Good point. This idea runs along the lines of RBI not being a good stat by which to judge hitters, but you can’t suck if you have 120 of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 1 hour ago, casimir said: It’s not just the chatter about Jung at 3B. It’s the sub .900 fielding percentage, too. Now, we understand fielding percentage isn’t an end all be all by itself. But under .900? That’s awfully eye opening. 54 minutes ago, chasfh said: Good point. This idea runs along the lines of RBI not being a good stat by which to judge hitters, but you can’t suck if you have 120 of them. I'm curious what his throw catch error split is. His FP% was .992 as a 2B - which is hard to argue with in the same way - so either the 1st step isn't fast enough at 3B (but you don't necessarily get errors on balls you don't get to......) or is he throwing the ball away to 1st a bunch? If it's true that they moved Colt to 2nd to save his arm maybe that is the obvious thing to revisit because Colt's arm looks in fine shape on his DP turns recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: I'm curious what his throw catch error split is. His FP% was .992 as a 2B - which is hard to argue with in the same way - so either the 1st step isn't fast enough at 3B (but you don't necessarily get errors on balls you don't get to......) or is he throwing the ball away to 1st a bunch? If it's true that they moved Colt to 2nd to save his arm maybe that is the obvious thing to revisit because Colt's arm looks in fine shape on his DP turns recently. But if moving Keith to 2B was about his arm and a planned return to 3B, then why hasn't Jung been moved off of 3B? I suppose they keep this going if there's some progression, be it small if at all. And maybe there's still some concern that Keith might not be able to move back to 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 (edited) 3 hours ago, casimir said: But if moving Keith to 2B was about his arm and a planned return to 3B, then why hasn't Jung been moved off of 3B? I suppose they keep this going if there's some progression, be it small if at all. And maybe there's still some concern that Keith might not be able to move back to 3B. yeah - we don't have the data. We know that Keith was a 3B before he injured his shoulder sliding into a base and when he came back they decided to move him to 2nd. From all I could gather moving Jung to 2B was expressly done to make room for both he and Keith on the same roster. So the question of why Jung did not go back to 2nd once Keith came to Detroit is a good one - but could be related to them not having any other interesting 2B candidate at Toledo this season anyway, so the Harris plan of teaching guy multiple positions is in play bey default. They appear to still be keeping his hand in at 2b with about 1/4 of his games there this season. As for Keith, I do remember reading that the shoulder injury was something that might resolve completely in over a year or not, but just by observation, he appears to be throwing very well right now at up to ~110 feet, but of course we can't judge if there'd be a problem at 150' or a risk or greater risk of re-aggravating the old injury. Not to mention right now he is pretty much carrying this team and you sure don't want to take *any* kind of risk with him. Save it for the off-season or try a move back in winter ball. Edited July 28 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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