1984Echoes Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 Plus: If we're angling for the playoffs in 2025, which I think we should be... A shut-down closer would be hugely beneficial in that regards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Plus: If we're angling for the playoffs in 2025, which I think we should be... Someone wanna beep 1984Echoes and let him know his MTF account has been hacked? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 4 minutes ago, casimir said: Someone wanna beep 1984Echoes and let him know his MTF account has been hacked? Just to be serious for a sec... This is because I'm getting off the "please be patient, please be patient" messaging I've been running on the past few years? I think this is the answer but... just checking. Beep, beep. (Says the Road Runner). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: Which monster closers are available this offseason, by FA or trade? That's #1 on my priority list: a shut-down dominant 9th inning guy. That pushes everyone else down a notch... which I think would be hugely beneficial for the Lange/ Foley/ Vest/ Holton's on this team... IMO. I could not agree more except we need TWO power relievers who can strike folks out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 As we bring up Jung and Sweeny peeking into 2025 I would like to add that it is now the time to bring back Justin Verlander to Detroit and just spend the needed $$ to do so. Add Ver and one other starter similar to the Flattery/Lorenzen "fix' level and we can enter 2025 with Skubal-Verlander-Olsen-Jobe- FA starter. Mize, Maeda and Montero as back ups bulk pitchers. Add a closer, Right handed bat and second reliever and we can really have some fun. I think Verlander would be down with that and Jobe is ready. We only have two more years with Skubal before Boras asks for the moon so we need to press hard on the gas NOW !! The budget is there...use it ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 4 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Just to be serious for a sec... This is because I'm getting off the "please be patient, please be patient" messaging I've been running on the past few years? I think this is the answer but... just checking. Beep, beep. (Says the Road Runner). Ding ding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 2 hours ago, SoCalTiger said: As we bring up Jung and Sweeny peeking into 2025 I would like to add that it is now the time to bring back Justin Verlander to Detroit and just spend the needed $$ to do so. Add Ver and one other starter similar to the Flattery/Lorenzen "fix' level and we can enter 2025 with Skubal-Verlander-Olsen-Jobe- FA starter. Mize, Maeda and Montero as back ups bulk pitchers. Add a closer, Right handed bat and second reliever and we can really have some fun. I think Verlander would be down with that and Jobe is ready. We only have two more years with Skubal before Boras asks for the moon so we need to press hard on the gas NOW !! The budget is there...use it ! Per Cot's: Quote Justin Verlander rhp 2 years/$86,666,666 (2023-24), plus 2025 option 2 years/$86,666,666 (2023-24), plus 2025 conditional player option signed by NY Mets as a free agent 12/5/22 23:$43,333,333, 24:$43,333,333, 25: conditional player option, triggered at $35M if Verlander pitches 140 innings in 2024 and an independent physical exam determines he does not have a right arm injury that would prevent him from being on the active roster for Opening Day 2025 He's at 57 IP right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 (edited) 5 hours ago, SkyBlue said: We are getting back into the impact of spin rates and all the changes that analytics have brought to pitching and what if any impact it has on durability. A 4 seam fastball gets a natural backspin imparted to it as it rolls off the fingers. Every other kind of spin needs to be explicitly imparted to the ball, and that means the arm must import torque to the ball in some way which is not natural to the normal throwing motion (i.e. the 4 seam fastball motion), not that that throwing motion is even 'natural' for the arm to begin with. So the baseball world can deny all they want, and claim you can't pick up any kind of signal between how pitchers pitch and arm injuries, but the physics is the physics and no matter what they deny, you wear out your UCL torquing your wrist and you torque your wrist to spin the ball. Those are just mechanical facts. The rest is window dressing. Edited August 16 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: A 4 seam fastball gets a natural backspin imparted to it as it rolls off the fingers. Every other kind of spin needs to be explicitly imparted to the ball, and that means the arm must import torque to the ball in some way which is not natural to the normal throwing motion... Skubal was just on (ESPN? MLB? I forget which channel I had it on... I think MLB...) talking about pronation and supination... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 29 minutes ago, casimir said: Per Cot's: He's at 57 IP right now. So he should be a free agent if he does not meet 140 innings which looks doubtful at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 cant get both but both Max and JV are FAs, just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 I'm reading Verlander's contract differently. His option won't vest, but he still has a player option he would be foolish to decline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papalawrence Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 3 minutes ago, Edman85 said: I'm reading Verlander's contract differently. His option won't vest, but he still has a player option he would be foolish to decline. I read an article last week that said the Astros will not have to pay and can decline the contract, but that they will try to sign him at a lower salary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 JV signed 2 year contract for 2023-24. also, there is a 3rd year at JV's option IF he hits 140 innings, which he will not. so there will be no 3rd year of that contract. JV has nothing to activate and Houston has nothing to decline 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: I'm reading Verlander's contract differently. His option won't vest, but he still has a player option he would be foolish to decline. I missed that. Too bad. Max ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said: JV signed 2 year contract for 2023-24. also, there is a 3rd year at JV's option IF he hits 140 innings, which he will not. so there will be no 3rd year of that contract. JV has nothing to activate and Houston has nothing to decline Oh. Great. Back to Verlander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 Mason Miller from the A's; Andrew Nardi from the Marlins... Make it happen Harris!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 I would be absolutely floored if Harris were to sign either Verlander or Scherzer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 8 minutes ago, chasfh said: I would be absolutely floored if Harris were to sign either Verlander or Scherzer. I don't want either one of them at this point. As much as I would have liked Verlander to finish his career as a Tiger, they don't need another pitcher who will spend most of the season on the IL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 18 minutes ago, chasfh said: I would be absolutely floored if Harris were to sign either Verlander or Scherzer. Same. 7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I don't want either one of them at this point. As much as I would have liked Verlander to finish his career as a Tiger, they don't need another pitcher who will spend most of the season on the IL. This will be considered an unpopular opinion, but it is probably very prudent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 Actually, I am interested in anyone Harris does pick up, even waiver claims. He has a type that works well with the on-field strategy we are putting in place and I think we are starting to see some successes from players we thought little of when they came on board, or even actively hated. I can’t think of any real whiffs he made on his pickups. Even the so-called “McStinky” has his moments, and at the very least is acting as an effective bridge from the old days to the playoff days. Believe me, if we had better major leaguers on board, “McStnky” wouldn’t be here. But this is all a process, and processes do take time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 4 hours ago, chasfh said: Actually, I am interested in anyone Harris does pick up, even waiver claims. He has a type that works well with the on-field strategy we are putting in place and I think we are starting to see some successes from players we thought little of when they came on board, or even actively hated. I can’t think of any real whiffs he made on his pickups. Even the so-called “McStinky” has his moments, and at the very least is acting as an effective bridge from the old days to the playoff days. Believe me, if we had better major leaguers on board, “McStnky” wouldn’t be here. But this is all a process, and processes do take time. Agree.Despite not being his biggest fan he was a useful pick up that ,unfortunately (IMO), Hinch played too often. But I have a question and that is "Did we cut Willie Castro to add McStinky ? " I don't recall the sequence of events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 (edited) Gage Workman hit his 13th HR today... I speak of this in relation to Javier Baez. For the next year or 2... as long as Baez is still on the team... I see his role as a RH'ed McKinstry. Meaning... I'm going to guess that Sweeney is the big LH'ed bat at SS, at least until someone better comes along (McGonigle? Ranier?)... and that Baez will then be pushed into a defensive SS replacement/ RH'ed platoon at SS/ backup-utility wherever else they can squeeze him in. That's just my guess. And I don't see the team dumping his salary... Unless... Someone can push him out of that job description and the team decides (finally), whenever that may be... to eat his salary. And it would still be a bandaid/stopgap position, again, until something comes along that's better. I think Workman is a guy who has a chance to push Baez out. Not Kreidler. Not Navigato. Eddys Leonard? Maybe, but I don't see it. Trei Cruz? Maybe, but he's much further aback of Workman. Workman was drafted out of college with a subpar hit tool. That hasn't really changed much in the minors it looks like. But he was supposed to have a great glove, range enough for SS, power... just not much of a hit tool/ contact to get to that power. But he's not a zero either. He's at (almost) .260 this year in Erie which is... not great, but not terrible either (.790 OPS... good enough for utility...). More than I thought he'd ever reach... I believe he's played 2B-SS-3B in the minors as well so positionally, he's a fit for that type of job. I'm interested to see who comes out of Spring Training next year as the RH'ed SS. Baez? Or is the team willing to give Workman a shot and move on from Baez... Or is Workman still a year of AAA away from even having a shot? We shall see... Edited August 18 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 7 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Workman was drafted out of college with a subpar hit tool. That hasn't really changed much in the minors it looks like. But he was supposed to have a great glove, range enough for SS, power... just not much of a hit tool/ contact to get to that power. But he's not a zero either. He's at (almost) .260 this year in Erie which is... not great, but not terrible either (.790 OPS... good enough for utility...). More than I thought he'd ever reach... I believe he's played 2B-SS-3B in the minors as well so positionally, he's a fit for that type of job. A tidbit in a recent Henning column I hadn't read ((Henning here) is that Workman has stopped switch hitting. Since he has given up trying to hit from both sides he has cut his K rate from 39% to 27%. That's still not great at AA but it's a lot closer to being in the ballpark of where he needs to get it. 24 in AA isn't young anymore but he may be the one SS in the upper system that actually has enough glove to stick as a useful backup/utility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 i'd love to see verlander come back, even if he is on and off the DL all year. it would be a nice swansong for his career to end up where it started. wonder if he'd be interested in closing? i dont have the same vibes about scherzer. i dont have the same emotional attachment to him and he left for marginally more money in his prime. he wasnt a tiger product from the beginning like verlander was. dont care if he comes back or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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