RatkoVarda Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Harris added Lorenzen and Boyd, and then Flaherty and Maeda. He is going to add 2 SPs this Winter. Probably too much health risk to have the 2nd of those SPs be either JV or Max, but maybe Harris feels differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 54 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: Harris added Lorenzen and Boyd, and then Flaherty and Maeda. He is going to add 2 SPs this Winter. Probably too much health risk to have the 2nd of those SPs be either JV or Max, but maybe Harris feels differently? At this point I could care less if JV comes back. Get guys who have production and a healthy track record that matches their price tags. I’d much rather spend the money to extend Skubal. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) 5 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: At this point I could care less if JV comes back. Get guys who have production and a healthy track record that matches their price tags. I’d much rather spend the money to extend Skubal. Yup. Absolutely nothing is more important in a GM/POBO than hard headedness. You can't get diverted from you plan for 'feel good' moves. We got enough of that from the owner's chair with M. Ilitch. Edited August 19 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papalawrence Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 If JV or Max came for a 1 yr/15-20 plus incentives I could see Harris going that route. If they are healthy, neither JV nor Max are agreeing to such a contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Yup. Absolutely nothing is more important in a GM/POBO than hard headedness. You can't get diverted from you plan for 'feel good' moves. We got enough of that from the owner's chair with M. Ilitch. feel good moves with mike illitch? you mean the most successful time period in the last 40 years? lol. signing verlander to a one year deal hurts nothing. feel good stories are awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 51 minutes ago, papalawrence said: If JV or Max came for a 1 yr/15-20 plus incentives I could see Harris going that route. If they are healthy, neither JV nor Max are agreeing to such a contract Sure, but what in either of their histories suggest they would do that? Especially Max. I think we are highly overrating how important coming back to Detroit would be for JV. He’s got World Series trophies and Kate Upton…..signing a cheap prove-it deal to make Tiger fans have warm fuzzy feelings inside probably isn’t high on this guys list anymore. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papalawrence Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 26 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: Sure, but what in either of their histories suggest they would do that? Especially Max. I think we are highly overrating how important coming back to Detroit would be for JV. He’s got World Series trophies and Kate Upton…..signing a cheap prove-it deal to make Tiger fans have warm fuzzy feelings inside probably isn’t high on this guys list anymore. Like I said, if either are healthy they're not taking a cheaper deal. That was my point. Bringing either back is not just a warm fuzzy thing for fans. Starting pitching depth is crucial - look at the Tigers this year. If Jobe comes up his innings will be very limited. Others will have limits too. If JV or Max is healthy it would be good for the Tigers to have them on board, or some pitching depth if they want to challenge for a playoff run next season. Doesn't have to be JV or Max, but if the deal is right, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 2 hours ago, buddha said: feel good moves with mike illitch? think how much better it would have been if he hadn't extended Willis, Cabrera, Martinez and Fielder unnecessarily? Sure you want an owner with an emotional commitment, but most the things that Mike did that were counter productive all stemmed from being letting emotion trump cool reason: The tiff with Max, the way DD was fired, and the extensions noted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 36 minutes ago, papalawrence said: Like I said, if either are healthy they're not taking a cheaper deal. That was my point. Bringing either back is not just a warm fuzzy thing for fans. Starting pitching depth is crucial - look at the Tigers this year. If Jobe comes up his innings will be very limited. Others will have limits too. If JV or Max is healthy it would be good for the Tigers to have them on board, or some pitching depth if they want to challenge for a playoff run next season. Doesn't have to be JV or Max, but if the deal is right, why not? I just don’t see bringing either of those guys back as a depth move though. I see them more as a ‘hope they’re healthy for a playoff run’ guys. They’re in their 40s and have missed more time than they’ve been active each of the last couple of years. The odds that they’ll miss a significant amount of time next year is pretty high. There are plenty of other good starters that are going to be free agents that would be much more likely to give us 100-150 innings. Some will be expensive, some won’t. I agree with having the pitching depth and I’d prefer to see us spend to get it. If we are firmly in the playoff hunt next year and we need a starter who can be ace caliber—then there will be guys we can trade for next deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Verlander isn't doing anything for anyone other than himself. I'm not saying it is wrong, but he isn't a giving caring type of person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 2 hours ago, buddha said: feel good stories are awesome! Only if they work. Would you want Cabrera back next year now that they have legit prospects at most posiions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, tiger2022 said: Verlander isn't doing anything for anyone other than himself. I'm not saying it is wrong, but he isn't a giving caring type of person. Most players are that way. I don't have any problems with Verlander as a person. He doesn't hurt his teams as long as he is healthy. The problem he isn't healthy anymore. Edited August 19 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 57 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Only if they work. Would you want Cabrera back next year now that they have legit prospects at most posiions? not miggy. but i had no problem watching him play the last few years, unlike the rest of the board. if verlander can pitch i'd like to see him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) 4 hours ago, papalawrence said: If JV or Max came for a 1 yr/15-20 plus incentives I could see Harris going that route. If they are healthy, neither JV nor Max are agreeing to such a contract Double that and you are at least in the ballpark of their asking price. Verlander will have a 35M player option he would have to turn down to be a free agent. Edited August 19 by Edman85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papalawrence Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 20 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Double that and you are at least in the ballpark of their asking price. Verlander will have a 35M player option he would have to turn down to be a free agent. Verlander isn't going to reach 140 innings so he will be a FA. But as I said, neither JV nor Max, if healthy, will accept a cheaper contract. So if healthy, they're not coming to Det. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 21 minutes ago, papalawrence said: Verlander isn't going to reach 140 innings so he will be a FA. But as I said, neither JV nor Max, if healthy, will accept a cheaper contract. So if healthy, they're not coming to Det. My read of the contract means it vests automatically if he hits that or has a player option if he doesn't. But I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlington Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 I'm sure that if you pushed guys like they did in the '70s some Ryans will rise to the top, but man, the pitching arms the Tigers blew out in the '70s could make one cry. Fydrich is the most famous, and Les Cain the most infamous (he made it an issue). Even ironman Lolich might have had more than a couple of dominate years had he been managed better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 They destroyed Denny Mclain in 1969...kept shooting him up with cortisone in his right shoulder so he could pitch. Ruined his arm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 5 hours ago, buddha said: not miggy. but i had no problem watching him play the last few years, unlike the rest of the board. if verlander can pitch i'd like to see him back. If Verlander could even be a good 5th starter, I'd like to see him back. Other than Granderson, he was probably my favorite Tiger from that period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 watching kirk gibson in the twilight of his career hobble around as a part time DH was very fun. he could still hit when called upon, even in a very part time role. flashback to 94: "why do we have to see kirk gibson when its clear danny bautista is the future!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 2 minutes ago, buddha said: watching kirk gibson in the twilight of his career hobble around as a part time DH was very fun. he could still hit when called upon, even in a very part time role. flashback to 94: "why do we have to see kirk gibson when its clear danny bautista is the future!" I am not sure what you are aguing here. Gibson was not a problem at all. Anderson used him in a way which maximized his production. It wasn't like watching Cabrera playing through injuries at below replacement level performance year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I am not sure what you are aguing here. Gibson was not a problem at all. Anderson used him in a way which maximized his production. It wasn't like watching Cabrera playing through injuries at below replacement level performance year after year. bringing back a hobbled kirk gibson could be like bringing back verlander. cabrera was obviously a different situation. cabrera was signed to a ridiculous extension (that many on this board were in favor of at the time, including many analytics folks), it was either cut him or play him. they were so bad it didnt matter. i liked to see him play even if he was bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 3 minutes ago, buddha said: bringing back a hobbled kirk gibson could be like bringing back verlander. cabrera was obviously a different situation. cabrera was signed to a ridiculous extension (that many on this board were in favor of at the time, including many analytics folks), it was either cut him or play him. they were so bad it didnt matter. i liked to see him play even if he was bad. Sure, if Verlander is healthy enough to pitch he'd be fun to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 If JV coming back is “cost free” then fine. But every team has a budget. Verlander would be the highest paid player on the team unless they extend Skubal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 7 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I am not sure what you are aguing here. Gibson was not a problem at all. Anderson used him in a way which maximized his production. It wasn't like watching Cabrera playing through injuries at below replacement level performance year after year. Gibson also took the responsibility of being a professional athlete to heart. I think Cabrera was just hanging on to cash in the contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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