1984Echoes Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 46 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: ... Just need a starting SS or a platoon with Sweeney. Now pitching is a whole 'nother story. What is ... You forgot the backend of the bullpen. Everything else looks spot on. But I think we need (I WANT) two shutdown guys to finish games and push the rest of our guys down a notch to more appropriate matchups. I am specifically targeting Andrew Nardi (lefty, blows guys away (career 12.4 K's/9), 26 and controllable for a few more years, best as the setup guy) from the Marlins, and Mason Miller from the A's (righty, blows guys away (15 K's/9 and 4.75 K's-BB's ratio, 0.6 HR's/9, and 0.78 WHIP this year), 6'5" 25 y.o. and controllable for (5?) more years, looks like a dominant shutdown closer for the next 5+ years...). Now Miller will be targeted by just about EVERYONE... And I know a few in here that will say "we're not ready for a closer yet, closer makes no sense unless we're a playoff team, etc....". But that's the point: We ARE ready for the playoffs, even if it's an uncertain, bumpy road to get there in 2025. With no guarantees. NO. We ARE ready to make that push. Cost? Nardi may be gettable since the Marlins are at the very bottom (aside from the White Sox) of a rebuild so relievers should be a tradeable commodity to them. Mason Miller will be a TOUGH get. We'll have to trade some good prospects. No, not Jobe, Clark, or Rainer. But I think McGonigle would have to be included in the conversation, maybe even a starter that is not Skubal or Jobe, but could be one of Olson/ Mize/ Manning/ Montero or anyone they want that is not the top two. A couple other key prospects... But I think we can recover from trading a starter. Sign a Free Agent. Develop one of the other rotation prospects that they're working on... I would rather have Miller and a Plan B to fill the rotation than have an empty spot at the back end of the bullpen and try to rely on Lange/ Foley/ or anyone else to try and fit into that spot. When... they don't. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, chasfh said: What is the implication of this? Would Mize become a free agent and the Tigers lose all rights of control? No. He just hits arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 4 hours ago, Edman85 said: No. He just hits arbitration. the club option is $3.1M, agree that sounds out of the question. Based on this year's $830K and being 1st year arb - let's assume he'd win arbitration at $1.2-1.5M. That's still pretty cheap. Next year would be another matter.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4hzglory Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 15 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: the club option is $3.1M, agree that sounds out of the question. Based on this year's $830K and being 1st year arb - let's assume he'd win arbitration at $1.2-1.5M. That's still pretty cheap. Next year would be another matter.... This is actually his 2nd year of arbitration. Last year they agreed to this deal before the hearing. That's where I wonder if he would really get less than $3.1 mil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4hzglory Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 15 minutes ago, 4hzglory said: This is actually his 2nd year of arbitration. Last year they agreed to this deal before the hearing. That's where I wonder if he would really get less than $3.1 mil? Looking at last year, Dustin May did less than 3.1 mil - he got 2.135 mil, but he only pitched 48 innings the year before and was out for the year. Griffin Canning received 2.6 mil off 127 IP and 2.0 WAR Michael King received 3.15 mil and had a better year than Mize has this year. Austin Gomber, coming off a 139 IP 5.5 ERA, 1.0 WAR also received 3.15 mil I would think they pickup the option at $3.1 mil, but trust Edman's thoughts much more than mine on this topic. Mize currently has 78 IP and a 0.7 WAR, but he probably would have been on the roster a week ago if not for the team needing the extra 40 man spot and putting him on the 60 day DL. He'll then lose around 12-20 innings because of that. He took that for the team, do they fight him over roughly $500K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) I think they pick up the option. Unnecessarily fighting (I know he hasn't "proven his worth" for that option to be picked up...) over that money I think engenders bad blood and I just don't see that small amount worth it to antagonize not just Mize... but the rest of the guys who will see it happening. It's just not worth it IMO. Pick up the option. Edited August 23 by 1984Echoes 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graterol Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 7 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: You forgot the backend of the bullpen. Everything else looks spot on. But I think we need (I WANT) two shutdown guys to finish games and push the rest of our guys down a notch to more appropriate matchups. I am specifically targeting Andrew Nardi (lefty, blows guys away (career 12.4 K's/9), 26 and controllable for a few more years, best as the setup guy) from the Marlins, and Mason Miller from the A's (righty, blows guys away (15 K's/9 and 4.75 K's-BB's ratio, 0.6 HR's/9, and 0.78 WHIP this year), 6'5" 25 y.o. and controllable for (5?) more years, looks like a dominant shutdown closer for the next 5+ years...). Now Miller will be targeted by just about EVERYONE... And I know a few in here that will say "we're not ready for a closer yet, closer makes no sense unless we're a playoff team, etc....". But that's the point: We ARE ready for the playoffs, even if it's an uncertain, bumpy road to get there in 2025. With no guarantees. NO. We ARE ready to make that push. Cost? Nardi may be gettable since the Marlins are at the very bottom (aside from the White Sox) of a rebuild so relievers should be a tradeable commodity to them. Mason Miller will be a TOUGH get. We'll have to trade some good prospects. No, not Jobe, Clark, or Rainer. But I think McGonigle would have to be included in the conversation, maybe even a starter that is not Skubal or Jobe, but could be one of Olson/ Mize/ Manning/ Montero or anyone they want that is not the top two. A couple other key prospects... But I think we can recover from trading a starter. Sign a Free Agent. Develop one of the other rotation prospects that they're working on... I would rather have Miller and a Plan B to fill the rotation than have an empty spot at the back end of the bullpen and try to rely on Lange/ Foley/ or anyone else to try and fit into that spot. When... they don't. Just my 2 cents. I would bet my life savings Harris would not trade McGonigle for a reliever. Especially for a team that isn’t close to a reliever away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, 4hzglory said: This is actually his 2nd year of arbitration. Last year they agreed to this deal before the hearing. That's where I wonder if he would really get less than $3.1 mil? that's right - the deal bought him out of his 1st year - so you are probably right - the totals will about go up 60-100%. IDK, Mize show flashes, but every pitcher that gets to the majors can show the occasional flash (Daniel Norris comes to mind), that's not enough to prove he will ever be a consistent major leaguer. He has a power arm, he has shown evidence of throwing a usefully live FB this season, and those count for a lot, but the injury history......and this last one coming off the mound on a pop-fly is just too bizarre, unless he had done it before hand and just started to notice it then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 20 minutes ago, Graterol said: I would bet my life savings Harris would not trade McGonigle for a reliever. Especially for a team that isn’t close to a reliever away. He's not trading a top prospect for a reliever. That would be stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papalawrence Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 I'm fairly sure Jung gets the remaining 2024 and 2025 to prove himself at 3rd. Keith is locked in. From Harris' last presser, I still hear patience. I do think these final ~35 games are important for Sweeney. Not sure he also gets 2025. Other than SS, who is Harris going to upgrade? If Tork flops to end this season, maybe 1b? I hope priority 1 is they find a way to keep Skubal. I'm pleasantly surprised at Meadows. He'll taper off, but with his D and the SB, he impacts the game in many ways. Greene and Carp, maybe an upgrade in for one OF position and dh Carp? I haven't given up on Malloy yet. Maybe a platoon piece, or even more. If a heavy offer is given, I hope it's first to Skubal. I'm starting to buy into Harris' "core" plan. Of course, Avila drafted these guys. They're close and the "core" should improve. Hate to say it, but I forsee another year of patience before a splurge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graterol Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 18 minutes ago, papalawrence said: I'm fairly sure Jung gets the remaining 2024 and 2025 to prove himself at 3rd. Keith is locked in. From Harris' last presser, I still hear patience. I do think these final ~35 games are important for Sweeney. Not sure he also gets 2025. Other than SS, who is Harris going to upgrade? If Tork flops to end this season, maybe 1b? I hope priority 1 is they find a way to keep Skubal. I'm pleasantly surprised at Meadows. He'll taper off, but with his D and the SB, he impacts the game in many ways. Greene and Carp, maybe an upgrade in for one OF position and dh Carp? I haven't given up on Malloy yet. Maybe a platoon piece, or even more. If a heavy offer is given, I hope it's first to Skubal. I'm starting to buy into Harris' "core" plan. Of course, Avila drafted these guys. They're close and the "core" should improve. Hate to say it, but I forsee another year of patience before a splurge I do think Harris needs to go all in with either playoffs in 2025 or punting for a few years. Tarik has two cheap years left. If you are going to see how all these guys develop, and see what you have next year, and not pursue any FAs, then trade Tarik. Otherwise you need to use the fact you are saving at every other position (except sunk costs of maeda and Baez) and go spend. But you can’t waste 50pct of Tarik’s pre-FA years on what probably won’t be a playoff team without significant FAs (probably 2 top 20 types). Sweeney is a decent bench guy on a good team. Jung maybe as well. We know what Tork is at this point—-at best probably a below average starter, and probably not that. Doing nothing (ie patience) would be the worst strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 So which one is it? You say this: 2 hours ago, Graterol said: ... Especially for a team that isn’t close to a reliever away. And then you say this: 34 minutes ago, Graterol said: I do think Harris needs to go all in with either playoffs in 2025 or ... So which one is it? No closer because we're not close enough? Or go all in for the playoffs in 2025? Because if we're shooting for the playoffs in 2025... then YES, closer. You can't have it BOTH ways. Choose one side, or the other. I'm choosing 2025 playoff hunt. Which means: YES. Closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: He's not trading a top prospect for a reliever. That would be stupid. You can tell me how stupid I am for wanting to trade a top prospect for Mason Miller... But for Olson, McGonigle and Briceno: I'm saying yes. And I don't care how stupid you think I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 PS: I think Mason Miller is Craig Kimbrel 2.0. I want him on the Tigers. Today, if not sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 I think Harris plans to compete every year now or he would have traded Skubal. I'm not worried about blocking anyone by signing free agents. If guys can hit or pitch, Hinch will find a spot for them (knowing him, multiple spots). A starter, closer, power bat, they could use all of those and more through trade or free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 (edited) 46 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: You can tell me how stupid I am for wanting to trade a top prospect for Mason Miller... But for Olson, McGonigle and Briceno: I'm saying yes. And I don't care how stupid you think I am. Wait...You want to trade Olson. McGonigle and Briceno for an injury prone reliever who has never pitched 50 innings in a season? I know he's good but that's the kind of haul you get for an ace. And I don't think you are stupid, in general. I think this proposal is stupid. Edited August 24 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graterol Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: So which one is it? You say this: And then you say this: So which one is it? No closer because we're not close enough? Or go all in for the playoffs in 2025? Because if we're shooting for the playoffs in 2025... then YES, closer. You can't have it BOTH ways. Choose one side, or the other. I'm choosing 2025 playoff hunt. Which means: YES. Closer. I made it clear in the post…sign a few FAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 59 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: So which one is it? You say this: And then you say this: So which one is it? No closer because we're not close enough? Or go all in for the playoffs in 2025? Because if we're shooting for the playoffs in 2025... then YES, closer. You can't have it BOTH ways. Choose one side, or the other. I'm choosing 2025 playoff hunt. Which means: YES. Closer. What he said makes perfect sense. Go for the playoffs, but make sure you've got a team that can win before adding a closer. The closer is the last piece. You can add one at the deadline if things go well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graterol Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 58 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: You can tell me how stupid I am for wanting to trade a top prospect for Mason Miller... But for Olson, McGonigle and Briceno: I'm saying yes. And I don't care how stupid you think I am. Wow this trade is even worse then I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Relievers are like finding golf balls in the rough...hard to see but they are there so don't trade good assets or spend BIG $. I like the converted starter option or short term free agent. They are just not reliable year to year except for a few closers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 We’re good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlington Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 Repeat last year's offseason. I think it turned out great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 28 Share Posted September 28 And this is why you don’t start a preseason thread before the end of the season, and that goes double for starting it in July. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 Apparently the Cards don’t plan to bring Goldschmidt back. He had an off-year and might be slowing down, but probably the type of veteran insurance that might be worth bringing on, in case Tork remains inconsistent. Would not require a long term deal, and there might be something left in his tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 Harris and Ilitch have multiple options to improve the team. Big trade. Little trades. Huge free agent signing. Multiple free agents. Still some glaring holes. 1. RH power 2. 8th and/or 9th inning Power Reliever, to go with Holton, Briske, Vest and Foley 3. 1B. I trust them to know if there is any hope of Tork being a consistent hitter. I don't see it. If Tork returns, they need a back up plan. 4. Baez. Same answer. I trust them to know if there is any hope. His 1st year in Det he had a 834 OPS vs LHP. Easy to see role as back up to Sweeney and Keith. But his approach remains just terrible and the antithesis of what they want. Surgery could fix something, or be the final nail in the coffin. Assuming he is not a clubhouse problem. 5. 3B. Jung’s approach is really nice, but no HR and poor D. 6. SP. Harris has signed 2 SPs each Winter so far. Will do so again. 7. C. Need better than Dingler. Hinch probably wants a LH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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