gehringer_2 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Just now, Edman85 said: I came across something recently that suggest players who rely on speed and athleticism but have recurring soft tissue leg/core issues are more likely to age faster. I think it was BA. Austin Jackson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 14 minutes ago, Edman85 said: I came across something recently that suggest players who rely on speed and athleticism but have recurring soft tissue leg/core issues are more likely to age faster. I think it was BA. Players like Baez, perhaps. Bill James used to talk about young player and old player skills. Young player skills were speed, making contact, defensive range. Old player skills were drawing walks and power. A player needed to be able to transition somewhat from young player to old player skills in order to age well. I don't know if any of the modern sabers have looked into that more thoroughly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 25 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: With hitters though you have two different 'ageing' effects to track. Some guys are simply going to break down but retain the hand/eye/reflex ability to hit - they just become physically unable - Prince obviously but also less extreme cases like Joe Mauer, who was still a good hitter when it just got to where he couldn't play. But there are also guys who lose their bat while still physically in decent shape - which you commonly see in guys that fall out of the league in their very early 30's. So if you could you'd want to be able to identify/predict both kinds early career ends.... That brings Cabrera to mind - someone who maintained enough batting skills to succeed but couldn't stay healthy. I don't think it was too difficult to predict that kind of outcome for him, although it was more severe than expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: That brings Cabrera to mind - someone who maintained enough batting skills to succeed but couldn't stay healthy. I don't think it was too difficult to predict that kind of outcome for him, although it was more severe than expected. Do you remember the one year he actually did lose a fair amount of weight, started the season slow and then claimed he needed to put the weight back on for his power? Clearly he had had plenty of power when he was younger and thinner!. To me that was the 2nd most disappointing action of his career because you knew then that he had just signed on for his success to end earlier than it had to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 49 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Players like Baez, perhaps. Bill James used to talk about young player and old player skills. Young player skills were speed, making contact, defensive range. Old player skills were drawing walks and power. A player needed to be able to transition somewhat from young player to old player skills in order to age well. I don't know if any of the modern sabers have looked into that more thoroughly. Did you describe Lou Whitaker? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 1 minute ago, oblong said: Did you describe Lou Whitaker? He was first player that came to mind when I read the article decades ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 10 minutes ago, oblong said: Did you describe Lou Whitaker? 8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: He was first player that came to mind when I read the article decades ago. i wonder if it isn't much harder for a player to have a Whitakerish career arc anymore though. You pretty much have to have Bill James 'old man' skills, namely power, to get to the big leagues even as a young man. I'm not sure orgs have the patience anymore to bring low power contact guys like Whitaker - and Trammel for that matter - along hoping they eventually become the power hitters those two did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 (edited) 29 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: i wonder if it isn't much harder for a player to have a Whitakerish career arc anymore though. You pretty much have to have Bill James 'old man' skills, namely power, to get to the big leagues even as a young man. I'm not sure orgs have the patience anymore to bring low power contact guys like Whitaker - and Trammel for that matter - along hoping they eventually become the power hitters those two did. Probably true and that has made the game worse. One of my biggest complaints about the modern game is there is not enough variety in players. Everyone is a power hitter who strikes out too much. It's been refreshing to see the Tigers get away from that somewhat this year. Edited October 14 by Tiger337 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades of Deivi Cruz Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 8 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Everyone is a power hitter who strikes out too much. It's been refreshing to see the Tigers get away from that somewhat this year. With non-power hitters that strikeout too much? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 44 minutes ago, Shades of Deivi Cruz said: With non-power hitters that strikeout too much? lol, yeah, they do strikeout too much. I was thinking they were doing better during their stretch run, but that's not true either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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RatkoVarda Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Lynn doubling down on Javy as dead man walking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 They will give Baez a chance to prove he can get his hip rotation back. But when he doesn't, then that will be it. There's no more forcing him into the lineup as a player you can rely on. They'll give Maeda a shot to do something in spring training. I'm sure leash will be short if he's terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Maeda at least can serve a purpose as a no-leverage mop up guy at worst. He showed flashes of effectiveness to where I believe there’s an outside shot that he could provide actual positive value if they work with him a bunch in the offseason. Baez is a lost cause. His hips aren’t what causes him to swing at pitches 2 feet out of the zone or not get back to the base on a pop fly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 4 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: Maeda at least can serve a purpose as a no-leverage mop up guy at worst. He showed flashes of effectiveness to where I believe there’s an outside shot that he could provide actual positive value if they work with him a bunch in the offseason. Baez is a lost cause. His hips aren’t what causes him to swing at pitches 2 feet out of the zone or not get back to the base on a pop fly. Baez's problem is not the free swinging. His issue is not being to able to hit challenge fastballs in the zone. He will never have good command of the strike zone. When he was younger and had his athletic traits, he could still punish mistakes; Now he can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 It's up to Harris to figure out which young players/prospects can be moved to help fill more immediate needs. They're not all going to develop and they all can't play at the same time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 My quick and dirty 40 man math... 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 (edited) In addressing the Casey Mize situation Harris stressed the offseason has to be a commitment from him in a number of areas. It would be huge if he could regain his stuff and be back in the rotation at some point. Spring Training is going to be a big test for some of these guys regarding their future in Detroit. Edited October 14 by 1776 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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gehringer_2 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 I thought Harris' discussion about the tension in Torkelson's approach between 'covering shapes' (basically not taking called strikes) and driving the ball (hunting middle middle mistakes) was interesting and spot on - and then tied directly to Hinch talking about Meadows changing approach against Boyd to stop trying to pull. And it reminds me that almost all of hitting goes back to what Kaline used to talk about - that the first thing for the hitter is to understand is what the pitcher is trying to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 1 hour ago, kdog said: I've listened to about a half of this. I am delighted at the competence of it all. I wouldn't have expected this level of measured, data-informed discussion from Eisenhower doing a presser about the land war in Europe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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