2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[Sports_Freak]

On 11/16/2024 at 11:19 AM, 1984Echoes said:

Agree with this. The team is not going to spend on a 1st Baseman. Not this year anyways.

Tork will get more chances... until he runs out of them, IMO.

The RH'ed bat to add is in the rest of the IF. Not 1B, not the OF.

That means Bregman, Torres, or Adames (let me add Kim into this because... yes), IMO. 3B and SS are easy places for a RH'ed bat (especially if they jettison Baez); and I believe Adames can also play 3B and 2B, as can Kim. Even Torres could work if they find out Keith can go back to 3B (all depends on his shoulder...); but as a secondary question, can Gleyber also play 3B?

There are variances in ability from the right side... but balance might be more important than lethality from the right side for this signing. But a plus RH'ed bat nonetheless.

I would have no problem with adding any of these guys, and I'll leave the dirty work and analysis up to Harris and his team to decide which one (certainly dependent on mutual interest...).

I read that they could add a RH bat at either 3rd base or RF. Vierling can play either so he can play wherever needed.

[gehringer_2]

On 11/16/2024 at 11:19 AM, 1984Echoes said:

Tork will get more chances... until he runs out of them, IMO.

The RH'ed bat to add is in the rest of the IF. Not 1B, not the OF

Tork's replacement is already stalking him from Lakeland...except he's LH.

 

[Arlington]

KC is looking for a 2nd baseman.  Could they be considering Jung?

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, Arlington said:

KC is looking for a 2nd baseman.  Could they be considering Jung?

I don’t see us trading with the Royals.  Also, read they are interested in Jonathan India.

[casimir]

On 11/15/2024 at 3:22 PM, Edman85 said:

Leonard is already on the 40.

Yup, I missed that one.  E - Casimir.

[Sports_Freak]

18 hours ago, Arlington said:

KC is looking for a 2nd baseman.  Could they be considering Jung?

Well, I guess we could take Witt off their hands.  /s

[chasfh]

19 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Tork's replacement is already stalking him from Lakeland...except he's LH.

 

Do we even have time to wait for that to happen? I don't think our window is very short, necessarily, but I wouldn't want to waste any of it on a substandard player at a position who's costing us three or four or five wins a year.

The $64 question is, is Tork done done as far as we're concerned? I think I'd be a little surprised if we gave him all the way through his arb years to break out of the sub-1.0 WAR ghetto he's been in.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Do we even have time to wait for that to happen? I don't think our window is very short, necessarily, but I wouldn't want to waste any of it on a substandard player at a position who's costing us three or four or five wins a year.

The $64 question is, is Tork done done as far as we're concerned? I think I'd be a little surprised if we gave him all the way through his arb years to break out of the sub-1.0 WAR ghetto he's been in.

I think Torkleson gets this season.  I know there’s clamoring to get another 1B into town.  Thing is, the Tigers already have Torkelson (albeit, not without merited question), Carpenter, and Malloy.  That’s 3 different DHs that are hoped to be average in the field if/when they take the field.  I think if they bring someone else in, it’s likely a 3B.  I suppose they could demote or trade one of Torkelson/Malloy, or even trade Carpenter, but that seems doubtful.

[Shelton]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Do we even have time to wait for that to happen? I don't think our window is very short, necessarily, but I wouldn't want to waste any of it on a substandard player at a position who's costing us three or four or five wins a year.

The $64 question is, is Tork done done as far as we're concerned? I think I'd be a little surprised if we gave him all the way through his arb years to break out of the sub-1.0 WAR ghetto he's been in.

I agree with you. I don’t think Scotty is going into 2025 with the idea that Tork is actually going to be their 1B. I think he’s saying exactly what needs to be said at this point in time, which is basically nothing, because he doesn’t need to actually say anything. 
 

I feel similarly about the idea that Báez is going to be the RH version of 2024 McKinstry and split time with the starting SS. He’s currently hurt and ineffective, and he’s not even taking up an active roster spot. He’s on the team until he isn’t, and therefore the story is “we are hopeful and he’s working hard and we need to get him back to being the Chicago Javy.” We all know that Scott Harris is not dumb, so why would we actually take that to mean anything more than he’s on the team until he isn’t. 
 

I’m not actually predicting anything. We have no idea which players are going to be added and how the team is going shake out in the spring. But I do think there is zero chance that Scotty has Báez written in pen on his 2025 depth chart. Same for Tork. 
 

Fortunately, decent backup SS and decent 1B are fairly easy to find. But if the right fit isn’t there, then sure. These guys could play a role to start. 

[Shelton]

18 minutes ago, casimir said:

I think Torkleson gets this season.  I know there’s clamoring to get another 1B into town.  Thing is, the Tigers already have Torkelson (albeit, not without merited question), Carpenter, and Malloy.  That’s 3 different DHs that are hoped to be average in the field if/when they take the field.  I think if they bring someone else in, it’s likely a 3B.  I suppose they could demote or trade one of Torkelson/Malloy, or even trade Carpenter, but that seems doubtful.

I think, for the most part, Malloy and Carpenter are sharing one lineup spot. Tork is extremely remotely/expendable if they bring in an actual 1B. No need to find him reps at DH. 

[Tenacious D]

The uncertainty with Tork is why you grab insurance.  Yes, Ill say it again—Paul Goldschmidt on a one-year.

[gehringer_2]

30 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

The uncertainty with Tork is why you grab insurance.  Yes, Ill say it again—Paul Goldschmidt on a one-year.

I agree he's a good add as far giving the Tigers just about the perfect hedge. It's the other side of the equation that may be more iffy.  if you are PG do you want to sign here? If he didn't perform well enough to hold down 1B on some regular basis he'd be stuck as the DH against LHP and that may be less AB than he's willing to sign up for.

[casimir]

The thing that worries me about Goldschmidt is that his SO% and BB% have been in decline for a few years, moreso his SO%.  Another season of decline and he might just end up being the same as Torkelson.  So, with respect to this swapping of players, I'm not sure how much the older player would be an upgrade over the younger player.

[casimir]

12 hours ago, Shelton said:

I think, for the most part, Malloy and Carpenter are sharing one lineup spot. Tork is extremely remotely/expendable if they bring in an actual 1B. No need to find him reps at DH. 

I guess it all depends upon the rest of the roster and how many guys they have playing everyday vs how many positions they can platoon.  Also, what do they want to do with the DH?  Is it a semi rest day for the everyday players (ie, Greene)?

[Shelton]

I think Goldschmidt is trash. And we aren’t going to sign anyone as Tork insurance. They need to sign someone better than Tork. What’s the use of signing a 1B worse than Tork to use an insurance? Insurance for what? He’s already basically replacement level. 

[oblong]

yeah Tork has spring training, early spring training, to show something.

Basically Harris will operate with the idea that no decision will be made or not made because they already have Spencer Torkelson on the team.  He won't block any acquisition.

That's probably true for everyone on the team outside of 4 guys.

 

 

 

[HeyAbbott]

16 hours ago, chasfh said:

Do we even have time to wait for that to happen? I don't think our window is very short, necessarily, but I wouldn't want to waste any of it on a substandard player at a position who's costing us three or four or five wins a year.

The $64 question is, is Tork done done as far as we're concerned? I think I'd be a little surprised if we gave him all the way through his arb years to break out of the sub-1.0 WAR ghetto he's been in.

He is done done.

[HeyAbbott]

16 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I think Goldschmidt is trash. And we aren’t going to sign anyone as Tork insurance. They need to sign someone better than Tork. What’s the use of signing a 1B worse than Tork to use an insurance? Insurance for what? He’s already basically replacement level. 

Tork is a sub replacement player.

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, casimir said:

The thing that worries me about Goldschmidt is that his SO% and BB% have been in decline for a few years, moreso his SO%.  Another season of decline and he might just end up being the same as Torkelson.  So, with respect to this swapping of players, I'm not sure how much the older player would be an upgrade over the younger player.

Yes, and then, what do we do after a year? What’s the plan at first base? 

The one distinct downside to signing a first baseman is that it tanks the market for Tork. That may not be the absolute worst outcome, necessarily, but If we’re going to risk that, then I’ll want something more than an older copy of Tork for a single year.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

Tork has spring training, early spring training, to show something.

We don't know much about their internal AB by AB  evaluation or metrics of what Torkelson did or didn't accomplish at Toledo and on his return, so all we can do is speculate (it's what we do here!) since the org doesn't talk much, but of course that is what it all comes down to.

I think the bottom line is that if they have decided go into ST committed to giving Torkelson in a shot at keeping the job, then a priori, they wont sign anyone who costs them any money or term commitment. And of course if they don't sign such a player before ST, the odds of signing them after ST are not zero, but small. In that case, the hedge if Torkelson doesn't produce is going to be this org's go to strategy, which will  be to sign someone 'expendable' - i.e., an older mid level player in his 30's a la Canha, or a even a minor league free agent they think they see some upside in.

To me this feels like the most like scenario for Harris.  The other thing to consider is that if they were as done with Torkelson as much of the board is, one would question why he would be on the 40 after today. Cutting guys is one thing they haven't been shy about.

 

[Longgone]

2 hours ago, HeyAbbott said:

He is done done.

Why do people feel compelled to make rigid statements like this? No one knows yet. Player development is not often linear. We shall see.

[HeyAbbott]

Just now, Longgone said:

Why do people feel compelled to make rigid statements like this? No one knows yet. Player development is not often linear. We shall see.

We have three seasons that average out to a sub replacement level performance with little evidence that he has found it. After what, 1400 at bats, I have seen enough.

[gehringer_2]

19 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said:

We have three seasons that average out to a sub replacement level performance with little evidence that he has found it. After what, 1400 at bats, I have seen enough.

you also have to weight that against a 30HR season, which don't grow on trees either.

[RatkoVarda]

obviously, there a decent chance Tork fails again - for a team that wants to return to the playoffs, you cannot have Ibanez as your back up 1B if that happens. Harris needs some kind of plan, but adding another RH first base only player would be hard to fit into the lineup.

[Tenacious D]

They haven’t given up on him, unless he gets dealt this offseason.  And he has more than ST.  They might want him to continue working on things in Toledo, but they aren’t going to discard a guy who is one season removed from 30 HR’s.