2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[chasfh]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

and the more unrestrained the rich teams get throwing money around, the more likely the above becomes for everyone else.

I could fear us going the Pirates/Rays/A's route, selling off good young players before they get expensive and replacing them with good cheap alternatives that keeps us in a 75-85-win loop indefinitely. But I have not seen any indication yet that this is what Harris-Ilitch are fixing to do, so I am going to assume they intend to build us into a perennial winner, until they prove otherwise.

Yes, I recognize that assuming this, and expectations in general, are just a recipe for disappointment. Well, I'm ready to take that chance on this group. Speaking only for myself, I'm at the end of my life, so I feel as though I need to hope for something good for this franchise before the curtain falls, versus maintaining perpetual cynicism to the bitter end.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I can see us passing on Bregman this time because we have other holes to fill and/or the front office is calculating that we have enough to cover third base well enough going forward.

They may also try to cover it with a trade for Arenado, which is getting a lot more Twitter buzz the past day or so. I’m not sure how I feel about a grizzled veteran parachuting into a group of underpaid kids in the same circumstance who are all getting along—after all, Arenado was getting mouthy in the media about how the kids were overrunning the Cardinals clubhouse—but he is a plus defender with pop in the stick who would put us on the hook for only 3/69, rather than 6+/pushing 200. It might depend as much on how any new player gels within the clubhouse and its culture for the next several seasons, as it does on how much the new guy can help us play into November in 2025 and we’ll figure out what happens after that.

Arenado is three years older than Bregman, so theoretically getting Arenado for 3 years would be like getting years 4-6 of a Bregman contract.  In that case, Bregman for 6 years would be preferable to Arenado for 3 years.  I don't know if they can get Bregman for 6, but if they could I think it would be a good deal.  

As for whether the timing is right, they were in the playoffs last year and they have the best pitcher in baseball with two years left on his contract.  The timing seems right to make a push if the right fit is available.  

[chasfh]

Yes, the Tigers were in the playoffs. Some believe we overachieved on record based on our underlying elements. There's a good debate that could be had for that.

Setting aside what I might like them to do, I would bet the front office believes that we have too many roster holes to fill to allow us to make the one big splash on the big-time free agent and push all the chips in to the middle and leave it all on the field in 2025 or bust. But, if that's where the front office thinks we are, I'll support it until it blows up in our faces.

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I could fear us going the Pirates/Rays/A's route, selling off good young players before they get expensive and replacing them with good cheap alternatives that keeps us in a 75-85-win loop indefinitely. But I have not seen any indication yet that this is what Harris-Ilitch are fixing to do, so I am going to assume they intend to build us into a perennial winner, until they prove otherwise.

 

I do not make the assumption that they are wiling and able to build a perennial winner.  I am sure that they would like to see that, but I am not sure that their budget will allow it.  I get the impression that they will not be like they were under Dombrowski/M.Ilitch, but I don't know whether they'll be like Tampa Bay or let's say Milwaukee.  I think Harris is smart enough so they won't be Pittsburgh, but I don't know what to expect beyond that.  

[chasfh]

18 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I do not make the assumption that they are wiling and able to build a perennial winner.  I am sure that they would like to see that, but I am not sure that their budget will allow it.  I get the impression that they will not be like they were under Dombrowski/M.Ilitch, but I don't know whether they'll be like Tampa Bay or let's say Milwaukee.  I think Harris is smart enough so they won't be Pittsburgh, but I don't know what to expect beyond that.  

You know I'm not a slappy. Or maybe you don't know that. I don't know. But my choice to make the assumption is indeed a choice, an intellectual decision, not an instinctual emotional response. Maybe you don't believe that, either. Hell, I have no idea what you believe. 😝

[SoCalTiger]

Well it seems over the next two weeks or so Harris will show his hand and a better glimpse into his future "modus operandi" which seems heavily entrenched on drafting and development which is solid IMO. However that only goes so far and needs to be complimented with good trades and solid free agents which we are yet to see. Perhaps he has a high bar for trades/hires or he's bit gun shy. I don't know but his opening presser statement of taking "calculated risks" has yet to show itself. We do know the left side of the infield is in dire need of attention. Sweeny seems thin to me, Baez well..nuff said, which equals a potential disaster at shortstop and playing an outfielder(Verling) and poor not ready defender(Jung) at third is like using duct tape of a hose leak. It works fine until it doesn't. And I LOVE duct tape. 

Ever since Harris cut Candy loose we have been searching for a third baseman. Admittingly they are somewhat rare but next week at the meetings Harris should address this and there must be other options to overpaying Bregman since 6/167 will not get him signed IMO. Arenado would work for me if the give back is mostly taking on salary not projects. He won't hit much but he will field the position and allow Verling to cover right field solidifying two spots defensively. That's big because we will once again rely on pitching in 2025. As far as Arenado fitting in I think that's over rated. You win and everyone gets along just fine.

[Tiger337]

36 minutes ago, chasfh said:

You know I'm not a slappy. Or maybe you don't know that. I don't know. But my choice to make the assumption is indeed a choice, an intellectual decision, not an instinctual emotional response. Maybe you don't believe that, either. Hell, I have no idea what you believe. 😝

I don't think you are a slappy.  

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

Well it seems over the next two weeks or so Harris will show his hand and a better glimpse into his future "modus operandi" which seems heavily entrenched on drafting and development which is solid IMO. However that only goes so far and needs to be complimented with good trades and solid free agents which we are yet to see. Perhaps he has a high bar for trades/hires or he's bit gun shy. I don't know but his opening presser statement of taking "calculated risks" has yet to show itself. We do know the left side of the infield is in dire need of attention. Sweeny seems thin to me, Baez well..nuff said, which equals a potential disaster at shortstop and playing an outfielder(Verling) and poor not ready defender(Jung) at third is like using duct tape of a hose leak. It works fine until it doesn't. And I LOVE duct tape. 

Ever since Harris cut Candy loose we have been searching for a third baseman. Admittingly they are somewhat rare but next week at the meetings Harris should address this and there must be other options to overpaying Bregman since 6/167 will not get him signed IMO. Arenado would work for me if the give back is mostly taking on salary not projects. He won't hit much but he will field the position and allow Verling to cover right field solidifying two spots defensively. That's big because we will once again rely on pitching in 2025. As far as Arenado fitting in I think that's over rated. You win and everyone gets along just fine.

First of all, can I just tell you how happy I am you used "duct tape" instead of "duck tape", which drives me nuts?

Secondly, other concerns I put forth earlier today set aside, I would hope that an Arenado pickup would see him at third instead of, as some national pundit posited, moved to first base since Arenado said he was open to that.

I know we'd like to be rid of TORK!, but Arenado is not the answer to that. He's a plus third baseman and his value is greater there than at first, and his newly reduced stick plays even worse at first than third. So, my vote is no to that idea.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Well, I'm ready to take that chance on this group. Speaking only for myself, I'm at the end of my life, so I feel as though I need to hope for something good for this franchise before the curtain falls, versus maintaining perpetual cynicism to the bitter end.

I've learned to enjoy baseball with less expectation about the outcome. Haven't gotten there with Hockey yet though! And darned if for a change I don't have to for football!

[Motor City Sonics]

35 minutes ago, chasfh said:

First of all, can I just tell you how happy I am you used "duct tape" instead of "duck tape", which drives me nuts?

 

I knew someone who had duck tape all over his Jagwire.   But Nick Lindstrom signed the duck tape so that was cool.  

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

First of all, can I just tell you how happy I am you used "duct tape" instead of "duck tape", which drives me nuts?

 

[gehringer_2]

14 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

so there is an alternate etymology that says this kind of tape was used to repair the cotton *duck* fabric as was used on the wings of early aeroplanes. I don't know which is older or truer.

BTW - "duck" had nothing to do with ducks, it's the approximation of the dutch word for canvas - "doek"

Edited December 3, 2024 by gehringer_2

[SoCalTiger]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

First of all, can I just tell you how happy I am you used "duct tape" instead of "duck tape", which drives me nuts?

Secondly, other concerns I put forth earlier today set aside, I would hope that an Arenado pickup would see him at third instead of, as some national pundit posited, moved to first base since Arenado said he was open to that.

I know we'd like to be rid of TORK!, but Arenado is not the answer to that. He's a plus third baseman and his value is greater there than at first, and his newly reduced stick plays even worse at first than third. So, my vote is no to that idea.

Haha 🤣 you’re welcome. Agree Arenado at first is a nonstarter. I think it only works short term in an emergency if during the season Tork bombs out and Jung blossoms at third beyond our greatest expectations. 

[theroundsquare]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I knew someone who had duck tape all over his Jagwire.   But Nick Lindstrom signed the duck tape so that was cool.  

Lindstrom was dominate 

[Tenacious D]

5 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Arenado is three years older than Bregman, so theoretically getting Arenado for 3 years would be like getting years 4-6 of a Bregman contract.  In that case, Bregman for 6 years would be preferable to Arenado for 3 years.  I don't know if they can get Bregman for 6, but if they could I think it would be a good deal.  

As for whether the timing is right, they were in the playoffs last year and they have the best pitcher in baseball with two years left on his contract.  The timing seems right to make a push if the right fit is available.  

Except that the erosion with Arenado is real.  With Bregman, it’s speculative.  If Arenado isn’t your 3B, he’s useless as a 1B/DH.  I’d rather take a risk signing Goldschmidt for a season than trade for and commit to Arenado.

[roarintiger1]

Just my two cents worth..........I would like to see a contract extension worked out for Chris Fetter before we sign an overpaid free agent.   If they have already extended his contract then ok.......on to an overpaid free agent.   🙂

[casimir]

10 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

How do you feel about Alex Bregman 6/$167 million ?

Go up front with the majority of the moneys?  $32, $30, $28,,….?  Lower salary in the declining seasons and it leaves a bit more in the kettle for Skubal and Greene extensions.

[gehringer_2]

6 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

The counter point is that McMasterCarr sells this product as Duct Tape, and with Sears long defunct, they are the pre-eminent authority for all things hardware.

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/duct-tape/

Edited December 4, 2024 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, casimir said:

Go up front with the majority of the moneys?  $32, $30, $28,,….?  Lower salary in the declining seasons and it leaves a bit more in the kettle for Skubal and Greene extensions.

Do the OOTP thing where you give him 35 Ms a year for four year, then two player options for 14 Ms apiece. Year five, he’s gone.

[casimir]

29 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Do the OOTP thing where you give him 35 Ms a year for four year, then two player options for 14 Ms apiece. Year five, he’s gone.

I'd be fine with a player opt out after a few years with a regressing salary going into the player's decline seasons.

[Tiger337]

Petzold mentioned that the Tigers are making a push for Ha Seong Kim.  He's very interesting and will likely sign a little shorter term than other big names due to injury concerns.  

[SoCalTiger]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Petzold mentioned that the Tigers are making a push for Ha Seong Kim.  He's very interesting and will likely sign a little shorter term than other big names due to injury concerns.  

I've always liked Kim but it's dicey due to his right shoulder injury might limit his effectiveness on the left side of the diamond. I guess it's a low cost gamble.

[papalawrence]

I know that business is business, but Chris Illitch is Mike Illitch's son, and I'm sure he was well aware of Mike's desire to win a WS. Again, it's a business, but I'm guessing part of Chris wants to fulfill his father's wish. I am naive and have been hit in the head with a shovel a few times, but still understand the father son thing. I think we'll find out with Skubal, if they pony up 3-400 mil to keep him. I think they'll still be willing to sign a top shelf FA at some point. Maybe not this year.

[gehringer_2]

One thing I haven't heard (is it out there anywhere?) is how much of a haircut, if any, the Tigers took on their TV deal in the Diamond bankruptcy. Hard to believe that it could have been anything but a cut. Was it or more or less than the Tigers had already anticipated? Enough to crimp spending plans or not? 

[Arlington]

Wonder when they are going to give Jace a 1st baseman's glove.  Yea, third is relatively new and it needs to be his focus but just think of the flexibility it would provide.