2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[Motor City Sonics]

11 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Gabba, Gabba, Hey!

No Pizza for you, Joey.     More wheatgerm and riboflavin, yeah come on, Joey, eat.......good boy

[gehringer_2]

I don't know if what they are charging is a legal requirement or not, but I do know that my ex-employers did include shift premium when calculating time-and-a-half rate.

FLSA, CFR 29 part 778 says this;

Quote

Example.  If during the course of 2 weeks this employee works 37.5 and 48 hours and 4 of the hours the employee worked each week were nightshift hours compensated at a premium rate of an extra $5 per hour, the employee's total straight time earnings would be $620 (fixed salary of $600 plus $20 of premium pay for the 4 nightshift hours). In this case, the regular rate of pay in each of these weeks is $16.53 and $12.92, respectively, and the employee's total compensation would be calculated as follows: For the 37.5 hour week the employee is owed $620 (fixed salary of $600 plus $20 of non-overtime premium pay, with no overtime hours); and for the 48 hour week $671.68 (fixed salary of $600 plus $20 of non-overtime premium pay, and 8 hours of overtime at one-half times the regular rate of $12.92 for a total overtime payment of $51.68). This principle applies in the same manner regardless of the reason for the hourly premium rate (e.g., weekend hours).

 

Edited Thursday at 01:40 PM by gehringer_2

[RedRamage]

39 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't know if what they are charging is a legal requirement or not, but I do know that my ex-employers did include shift premium when calculating time-and-a-half rate.

FLSA, CFR 29 part 778 says this;

 

Interesting. I would assume that base pay would NOT include any thing like premium shift bonuses. Imho the fact that it's called a bonus would seem to indicate it's above and beyond the base pay.

But, I don't even come close to resembling a lawyer or have ANY knowledge of labor laws, so if the law says that things like shift bonuses need to be included, then obviously they should be. Again, assuming the law says it should be calculated this way, I'd hope that the Tigers didn't know the law and thought they were doing the calculation correctly. However, given that this is being brought as a lawsuit I tend to think the employee at least tried to talk to management once or twice about this and point out their error (again assuming the employee is right) and those conversations when no where.

[gehringer_2]

18 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Interesting. I would assume that base pay would NOT include any thing like premium shift bonuses. Imho the fact that it's called a bonus would seem to indicate it's above and beyond the base pay.

But, I don't even come close to resembling a lawyer or have ANY knowledge of labor laws, so if the law says that things like shift bonuses need to be included, then obviously they should be. Again, assuming the law says it should be calculated this way, I'd hope that the Tigers didn't know the law and thought they were doing the calculation correctly. However, given that this is being brought as a lawsuit I tend to think the employee at least tried to talk to management once or twice about this and point out their error (again assuming the employee is right) and those conversations when no where.

Agree.

As I would read this, FLSA is clear, but there *could* be a question of whether it covers stadium employees. If they are non-ICC employees they are only covered by MI law. My understanding is that MI law incorporates some/most/all(?) of the FLSA but I don't profess to know any details of what MI may exempt.  Obviously if the suit was brought in Federal court, the employees are arguing they are Federally covered ICC employees, and maybe their standing is the core of the case. The team is certainly an interstate operation, but it's possible they've tried to carve out the stadium operation in such a way that that it isn't, or at least claim it isn't.

[IdahoBert]

Getting back to delivering newspapers, in the late 1960s I had one for the Fort Wayne Journal Gazette in my small town of Auburn, Indiana and I would get up at 1:30 in the morning and deliver my 140 papers on my bike and get back to sleep by 3-3:30 AM and never had a hard time going back to sleep, even though I drank a Pepsi  

I would listen to a transistor radio and I remember hearing live just as I was leaving the house one morning that Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated and I ran back into the house and woke up my parents to tell them.

When it was -20° it was tough to be doing this job, or when it was raining hard.

On Sundays when I had 220 papers to deliver my dad would drive me around and we wouldn’t get up until 5:30 AM or six, and when we finished, we would go to the grocery store and get cheese danishes.

 

[papalawrence]

3 hours ago, 1776 said:

 

We’ll, there is some Tigers news 😁

 

 

Detroit Tigers failed to pay hourly workers enough overtime, lawsuit states

Dave Boucher, Detroit Free Press

Thu, January 16, 2025 at 6:10 AM EST

2 min read

 

A former Detroit Tigers employee sued the baseball franchise in federal court, arguing the team short-changed him and many others who regularly worked overtime in recent years.

The lawsuit, filed Tuesday in the Eastern District of Michigan by Derron Jones, alleges widespread miscalculation of overtime rates for Jones and other hourly workers for the franchise.

Jones did not include a specific amount of money he believes he is owed. But the lawsuit seeks more than just back pay, interest and damages for Jones − his lawyers argue all hourly employees for the Tigers in the last three years is also owed some money. 
Jones worked in shipping and receiving from March 2017 through Aug. 6, 2024, the lawsuit states. The lawsuit does not say why he left his job. He earned a shade under $16 an hour, but routinely worked overtime.

While the lawsuit says he did receive some compensation for the extra work, it failed to meet federal labor law standards.

"At all relevant times, (the Tigers) had a policy and practice of willfully refusing to pay (Jones) and all putative collective members the legally required amount of overtime compensation for all hours worked in excess of 40 hours per workweek, in violation of the (Fair Labor Standards Act)," the lawsuit states.

The lawsuit argues the Tigers failed to take into account all pay the workers received when calculating overtime rates. Jones' lawyers argue the franchise did not include extra money a worker may receive for a "shift premium," a perk for someone working an irregular shift, and other bonuses. They say all of this compensation must be used to calculate a person's base pay before determining overtime; typically, 1.5 times a person's base pay.

The lawyers are asking the judge to give them class action status and require the Tigers to provide them details about other hourly workers.

Tigers spokesman Ben Fidelman said the team hat yet to receive the complaint so declined additional comment. Lawyers representing Jones − Jonathan Melmed and Laura Supanich of Los Angeles and Kevin J. Stoops of Southfield − also did not return messages seeking comment.

Reach Dave Boucher at dboucher@freepress.com and on X @Dave_Boucher1.

That came up in my feed yesterday. Then another came up where it seems the Tigers are also being sued by some scouts. All scouts were laid off for a period during the pandemic and the Tigers did not apply for the federal program to reward employers for keeping staff on during covid 19. When it was cleared to bring people back, everyone rehired was under age 60. Several age 60+ scouts filed a discrimination suit. It's been delayed and still pending. It's interesting to hear this behind the scenes stuff. I'm only 59, maybe there's still time to find a job with the Tigers.

[papalawrence]

According to this article the Red Sox offered Bregman a 3-yr deal and he is holding out for a 5-yr deal. If that's true I don't see Harris going to 5. Maybe 3 or 4. I do have a gut feeling Det still has a big move coming up. Or maybe that's just the aftermath of a Greek omelet 

https://en.albat.com/thebigs/MLB-The-Contract-Alex-Bregman-Turned-Down-from-the-Red-Sox-and-His-Counteroffer-Revealed-20250115-0012.html

Edited Thursday at 03:47 PM by papalawrence

[Motor City Sonics]

18 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

According to this article the Red Sox offered Bregman a 3-yr deal and he is holding out for a 5-yr deal. If that's true I don't see Harris going to 5. Maybe 3 or 4. I do have a gut feeling Det still has a big move coming up. Or maybe that's just the aftermath of a Greek omelet 

https://en.albat.com/thebigs/MLB-The-Contract-Alex-Bregman-Turned-Down-from-the-Red-Sox-and-His-Counteroffer-Revealed-20250115-0012.html

I can see them possibly going 5, with some opt-outs.     If Bregman wants a bigger payday than he's being offered - he'd probably do a 1 year deal and bank of himself.   But if that's the option, I doubt he'd want to play in our ballpark.  

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I can see them possibly going 5, with some opt-outs.     If Bregman wants a bigger payday than he's being offered - he'd probably do a 1 year deal and bank of himself.   But if that's the option, I doubt he'd want to play in our ballpark.  

I agree that if he goes that route, then that reduces the Tigers chances of getting him.  I still think he'll get 5-6 years from some team.  

[RatkoVarda]

entire article makes zero sense; getting an elite FA for just 5 years would be a coup for any team

[Motor City Sonics]

9 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

entire article makes zero sense; getting an elite FA for just 5 years would be a coup for any team

Well, the keyword is "elite". 

I don't think Alex Bregman is elite at all.    He's good, but he's not in any rarified air.     He played on a very good team, in a lineup that was loaded in a park where a lot of fly balls turn into home runs for right handed hitters -- plus he's coming off a steep decline in his OBP (trend or fluke?) and he's 31.   He was really in a favorable situation.    

Yes, he's a great fit for the Tigers right now and it does not seem like he's really blocking anyone coming up (unless they plan on McGonigle moving to 3b).     But is he really a 7 year/200 million guy? 

His best years were 2018/2019.  That was a long time ago.     Those 24 or 25 home runs playing in Houston are more like 19 or 20 in Comerica.   That's good, but that's not special. 

If he really was a 7 year $200 million player - wouldn't he be signed by now? 

Edited Thursday at 06:49 PM by Motor City Sonics

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

entire article makes zero sense; getting an elite FA for just 5 years would be a coup for any team

I am expecting a long term deal and agree five years would be better than what I was expecting coming into the off-season.  Unless teams know something about him (like his drop in walk rate is a permanent thing), then he'll get a long-term deal.  Maybe, I am wrong about him, but I am visioning him as the new Ian Kinsler for a few years.  

[Motor City Sonics]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I am expecting a long term deal and agree five years would be better than what I was expecting coming into the off-season.  Unless teams know something about him (like his drop in walk rate is a permanent thing), then he'll get a long-term deal.  Maybe, I am wrong about him, but I am visioning him as the new Ian Kinsler for a few years.  

Thank Goodness Angel Hernandez retired so he couldn't torment Breggie like he did with Kinz. 

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I am expecting a long term deal and agree five years would be better than what I was expecting coming into the off-season.  Unless teams know something about him (like his drop in walk rate is a permanent thing), then he'll get a long-term deal.  Maybe, I am wrong about him, but I am visioning him as the new Ian Kinsler for a few years.  

 

7 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Well, the keyword is "elite". 

I don't think Alex Bregman is elite at all.    He's good, but he's not in any rarified air.     He played on a very good team, in a lineup that was loaded in a park where a lot of fly balls turn into home runs for right handed hitters -- plus he's coming off a steep decline in his OBP (trend or fluke?) and he's 31.   He was really in a favorable situation.    

Yes, he's a great fit for the Tigers right now and it does not seem like he's really blocking anyone coming up (unless they plan on McGonigle moving to 3b).     But is he really a 7 year/200 million guy? 

His best years were 2018/2019.  That was a long time ago.     Those 24 or 25 home runs playing in Houston are more like 19 or 20 in Comerica.   That's good, but that's not special. 

If he really was a 7 year $200 million player - wouldn't he be signed by now? 

He is not really "elite" and 7+ years is too much for someone his age.  That's the kind of overpay I was expecting the Tigers to have to make.  However, 6 is reasonable and 5 is great in my opinion.  

[SoCalTiger]

I think the Blue jays, long frustrated by failing to sign stars or win with their team, are about to do a late off season facelift. I see them trading Vladdy to the Mets and then signing both Alonzo and Bregman. 

[RandyMarsh]

5/150 would be amount my limit on Bregman, I'd go a higher AAV for less years but don't want to guarantee anything more than 150 or 5 years. 

If he's fine doing something like 2/70 with a 1 yr opt out I'd be cool with something like that as well.  

 

Edited Thursday at 07:00 PM by RandyMarsh

[1776]

I’m thinking Harris is interested in Bregman. Right or wrong, this has been my suspicion for a while now. I also believe Harris has a dollar amount and a cap on years in mind and is not willing to move off his numbers. If you go back to last year, Boras was forced to come off some of his demands to get his guys on the field in time for 2024. 
I believe Harris is waiting until the market for Bregman falls into line with his targets. 
That’s my totally unconnected opinion. 
I hate opt-outs if anyone is wondering. 

Edited Thursday at 07:04 PM by 1776

[Longgone]

3 hours ago, 1776 said:

I’m thinking Harris is interested in Bregman. Right or wrong, this has been my suspicion for a while now. I also believe Harris has a dollar amount and a cap on years in mind and is not willing to move off his numbers. If you go back to last year, Boras was forced to come off some of his demands to get his guys on the field in time for 2024. 
I believe Harris is waiting until the market for Bregman falls into line with his targets. 
That’s my totally unconnected opinion. 
I hate opt-outs if anyone is wondering. 

I don’t see it like that. I think Harris is more focused on the player than the money. He has said if they identify a player that fits where they’re going, they will go hard after him. I think if they wanted Bregman, they’d have signed him.

[gehringer_2]

42 minutes ago, Longgone said:

I don’t see it like that. I think Harris is more focused on the player than the money. He has said if they identify a player that fits where they’re going, they will go hard after him. I think if they wanted Bregman, they’d have signed him.

It's so common for hitters to drop off rapidly, irreversibly after 30 that you have to be really sceptical when any player has a down year after that age. It's possible that it doesn't mean anything or there was some other reason than that he's started his decline, but you have to approach it from the standpoint of finding evidence he is still going to be good instead of assuming he just had a down year. When you sign a guy at 30 you hope he's an Ian Kinsler - who performed pretty well to about age 36, but you have to understand that the odds are he is not.

So if I'm the Tigers and there isn't some body of evidence explaining to me why his OBP was down and why whatever it was isn't going to happen again, I'm passing. And of course we don't know their conclusions from the deep dive into his performance that they have undoubtedly already done. If they pass, maybe he does fine somewhere else -- but they decided they were OK letting some other team wager on that particular risk-reward.

Edited Thursday at 11:08 PM by gehringer_2

[1984Echoes]

7 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I can see them possibly going 5, with some opt-outs.     If Bregman wants a bigger payday than he's being offered - he'd probably do a 1 year deal and bank of himself.   But if that's the option, I doubt he'd want to play in our ballpark.  

I could give him a 5-year.

Just requirements to make the 4th and 5th year.

Meet those requirements and we can lock in the 4th and 5th.

But the secondary requirements would be starts in the field. If he is only a part-time starter in his 3rd year than he might still meet games played, just for example... but if not as a starter (a lot of backup games) = cut the pay rate in half. maybe he hits year 4 at $25-30 mill but year 5 he gets games, but as a non-starter so his pay = $12-15 mill based on not meeting those incentives.

That's probably a NO from Bregman and Boras...

Just thinking outside the box a little...

 

 

Edited Thursday at 11:34 PM by 1984Echoes

[monkeytargets39]

Nobody else seems super into signing Bregman…so just wait him out until spring and maybe he gets desperate and takes way less.  If not, we still have Vierling, Jung, McKinstry, Ibanez, etc.

[IdahoBert]

Eh, what do I know to have an opinion on Bregman… not much. But I think he would only come here as a last resort.

I can’t see the Tigers offering him something better than the Astros did which he refused.

The ballpark isn’t good for him. His HR numbers in a ballpark that I think should play to his abilities better than Comerica have not been outstanding in his last three full seasons. And he walked half as much this last season than he has before. 

When the Reds traded Frank Robinson to the Orioles they said they did it because he was “an old 30” and they were wrong. I think there’s decent reason to believe this might be true of Bregman.

The club’s existing dynamics also seem at variance with his presence in it. The Tigers Way and all that. And I’m also not sure that he and Hinch have a kissy face every day is Christmas kind of relationship that makes up for everything else.

I think he would only come here if he were desperate or if he truly believed this was a club with a future that it would be fun to play for, but I don’t put a lot of stake in those sorts of emotional intangibles.

The truth be told he probably should’ve accepted that offer from the Astros.

[Tiger337]

The Tigers pitching should be pretty strong if everyone is healthy.  As it stands now their offense and defense are not impressive.  I hope they do something to address that.  

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, IdahoBert said:

Eh, what do I know to have an opinion on Bregman… not much. But I think he would only come here as a last resort.

I can’t see the Tigers offering him something better than the Astros did which he refused.

The ballpark isn’t good for him. His HR numbers in a ballpark that I think should play to his abilities better than Comerica have not been outstanding in his last three full seasons. And he walked half as much this last season than he has before. 

When the Reds traded Frank Robinson to the Orioles they said they did it because he was “an old 30” and they were wrong. I think there’s decent reason to believe this might be true of Bregman.

The club’s existing dynamics also seem at variance with his presence in it. The Tigers Way and all that. And I’m also not sure that he and Hinch have a kissy face every day is Christmas kind of relationship that makes up for everything else.

I think he would only come here if he were desperate or if he truly believed this was a club with a future that it would be fun to play for, but I don’t put a lot of stake in those sorts of emotional intangibles.

The truth be told he probably should’ve accepted that offer from the Astros.

I have read in a couple of places that Hinch really wants him and that he's a great teammate.  All that, of course, should be taken with a grain of salt.  I agree that Detroit is always going to be a tough sell and they probably have to offer a year more than other teams to get him.  

[IdahoBert]

It makes me more optimistic to hear that Hinch holds Bregman in high regard. I wasn’t sure if that was the case after all the bad stuff that happened in Houston. I thought there might be something lingering in the air from back then  

I like Hinch and I trust him, even though I’m only sold on Hinch the same way I’m sold on breathing, thinking both are pretty good things. I don’t have solid reasons to back up my support for what he does. He “looks” like he knows what he’s doing.

I’m sort of like one of the kids on D*ck Clark’s old TV show American Bandstand in the ‘60s that would say stuff like "It's got a good beat and it’s easy to dance to.” If Hinch thinks Bregman is a good dance partner, then good.