2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[Arlington]

I liked that Harris decreased Maeda's salary from $14 to $10 for the second year. Unusual but it would make it easier to move him had he not turned out so utterly useless.

just wasting time here looking through Baseball Reference. See that Miggy signed his big contract extension in 2014 and it started in 2016.  He had a HOF caliber 2016.  For the rest of his $248 million contract extension, Miggy had a -2.7 WAR.  He actually would have retired with a higher WAR had he retired 7 years earlier.

[Tiger337]

Just now, Arlington said:

I liked that Harris decreased Maeda's salary from $14 to $10 for the second year. Unusual but it would make it easier to move him had he not turned out so utterly useless.

just wasting time here looking through Baseball Reference. See that Miggy signed his big contract extension in 2014 and it started in 2016.  He had a HOF caliber 2016.  For the rest of his $248 million contract extension, Miggy had a -2.7 WAR.  He actually would have retired with a higher WAR had he retired 7 years earlier.

$14 was about what he was worth last year.  

[casimir]

10 hours ago, Arlington said:

I'm a little mystified with the Carpenter platoon. How can such a successful hitter against RH pitchers be so terrible against lefties?  Is this a bit self-fulfilling?  Has Hinch's match-ups stymied his development?

The strict platoon and defense and health make me wonder whether its best to move him in a deal.  Its a heck of a story kind of coming out of nowhere to have the success that he has had.  But is this the peak and will other teams overvalue him?

[casimir]

22 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I don’t like creating a big hole to fill another.  We’re not desperate to get a 3B—we have in-house options.

To me it depends upon what other moves occur.  If they have a suitable RF option to replace Carpenter and he is used to fill a hole elsewhere, that's fine.

What 3B options are there?  Jung, who should probably be at 2B?  Vierling, who will probably be counted on for OF reps?  Ibanez, who maybe they've probably squeezed out what they could the last 2 seasons?  McKinstry?

The more I think about this IF, the less I like it.  I do appreciate versatility on a roster.  But I'm just not sure that the sum of the IF parts is going to be all that encouraging.

[Tenacious D]

There is risk with Jung, but his hitting performance was encouraging in his limited time last season (much better when you compare it to how Keith started the year).  The defense is concerning, but in fairness, he was learning 3B in ‘24. With Lee and McGonigle coming (soon), I don’t see a path back to 2B for him.

If we don’t sign Bregman, or get another external 3B solution, Vierling will likely platoon there. In that instance, I think we go after a RH OF (Grichuk?).

Another scenario is Jung/Ibanez platoon at 3B and Carpenter/Vierling in RF, which would open up AB’s at DH for Tork, if he demonstrates in ST that he can handle it.

[1776]

30 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Another scenario is Jung/Ibanez platoon at 3B and Carpenter/Vierling in RF, which would open up AB’s at DH for Tork, if he demonstrates in ST that he can handle it.

So Tork was told to go and work on XY and Z in the offseason and be ready to prove himself in spring training. With his being removed as the everyday first baseman, I am guessing that as early as at least a month ago he had convinced the front office he was failing his winter assignments? If so, that was quick. I’d wonder how much presence the FO had at Tork’s winter work assignments. 
I’m under the impression that the primary reason that the infield roulette game is on is because of Tork’s inability to be a reliable bat at first? Am I wrong or right on this assumption? 
To date, I’m not seeing a plan. Was there a plan? 

Edited 12 hours ago by 1776

[casimir]

32 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

There is risk with Jung, but his hitting performance was encouraging in his limited time last season (much better when you compare it to how Keith started the year).  The defense is concerning, but in fairness, he was learning 3B in ‘24. With Lee and McGonigle coming (soon), I don’t see a path back to 2B for him.

If we don’t sign Bregman, or get another external 3B solution, Vierling will likely platoon there. In that instance, I think we go after a RH OF (Grichuk?).

Another scenario is Jung/Ibanez platoon at 3B and Carpenter/Vierling in RF, which would open up AB’s at DH for Tork, if he demonstrates in ST that he can handle it.

Assume a 13 man pitching staff and take out the 2 catchers.

1B Keith

2B Torres

SS Baez/Sweeney

3B Jung/Ibanez

LF Greene

CF Meadows

RF Carpenter/Vierling

DH Torkelson

That's 11.  Now, we can debate back and forth the worthiness of McKinstry, but I think its likely safe to assume he makes the roster.  But at the expense of whom?  Perhaps an injury makes that decision, but that's no fun.  So, is it Torkelson, Jung, Baez?  Maybe Sweeney?

I think the OF is fine.  Greene plays just about everyday because he's the all around best position player on the club.  Meadows' glove can play everyday and its understood that isn't his calling card.  Carpenter is probably the best power threat (vs RHPs).  Vierling can probably play everyday among spelling the OFs and being an option at 3B if needed there.

But that IF..... egads.  It just seems like a lot is expected in terms of maturation amongst the youngsters and a rebound from Torres and Baez.  I have my doubts about how strong that limb is that the Tigers are seemingly willing to climb out onto.

[casimir]

14 minutes ago, 1776 said:

To date, I’m not seeing a plan. Was there a plan? 

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.

---Tyson 3:16

[Tenacious D]

30 minutes ago, 1776 said:

So Tork was told to go and work on XY and Z in the offseason and be ready to prove himself in spring training. With his being removed as the everyday first baseman, I am guessing that as early as at least a month ago he had convinced the front office he was failing his winter assignments? If so, that was quick. I’d wonder how much presence the FO had at Tork’s winter work assignments. 
I’m under the impression that the primary reason that the infield roulette game is on is because of Tork’s inability to be a reliable bat at first? Am I wrong or right on this assumption? 
To date, I’m not seeing a plan. Was there a plan? 

I don’t understand your assumption—Harris came out when he spoke to Keith moving to 1B and said that Tork would have a role if they saw improvements in his offseason and ST performance.  I haven’t seen anything reported that would suggest any decisions have been made on his status.

[Longgone]

1 hour ago, 1776 said:

So Tork was told to go and work on XY and Z in the offseason and be ready to prove himself in spring training. With his being removed as the everyday first baseman, I am guessing that as early as at least a month ago he had convinced the front office he was failing his winter assignments? If so, that was quick. I’d wonder how much presence the FO had at Tork’s winter work assignments. 
I’m under the impression that the primary reason that the infield roulette game is on is because of Tork’s inability to be a reliable bat at first? Am I wrong or right on this assumption? 
To date, I’m not seeing a plan. Was there a plan? 

What are you basing any of this on?

[SoCalTiger]

20 hours ago, 4hzglory said:

Personally I don’t like that at all.  1 yr of Paredes who isn’t a good defender and whose offense will likely be hurt by Comerica for 3-4 years of Carpenter who is our best hitter (and was top 3 in AL) against right handed pitching and still improving.  

Paredes has 3 years of control. But he doesn't hit righties too well. Carpenter has 4 years of control and does not hit lefties at all. Both average defenders. Carpenter a slightly better runner. Paredes plays premium position of great need and hard to find. Very close. Given the current players on the Tigers and our heavy lefty lean hitters ( and most of our  top minor league hitters are lefty and none play third )I would take Paredes. IMO

[1776]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

I don’t understand your assumption—Harris came out when he spoke to Keith moving to 1B and said that Tork would have a role if they saw improvements in his offseason and ST performance.  I haven’t seen anything reported that would suggest any decisions have been made on his status.

I think my mistake was thinking that Tork would still be in play for a shot at first base going into spring training which is not the case now. That decision was put in stone earlier than I realized.  Thank you for clarifying that. So maybe the rest of the infield mystery will be resolved soon.

Edited 10 hours ago by 1776

[Longgone]

18 minutes ago, 1776 said:

I think my mistake was thinking that Tork would still be in play for a shot at first base going into spring training which is not the case now. That decision was pit in stone earlier than I realized.  Thank you for clarifying that. So maybe the rest of the infield mystery will be resolved soon.

Whoever performs is going to play. They have options.

[chasfh]

22 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Kick the tires on Yoan Moncada?

As a NRI? Sure, why not?

With a guaranteed major league contract? Uhhhh ...

[chasfh]

20 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I can’t ever fault an athlete for that. No one tries to get hurt and injuries often come from hustle or bad luck.

I read his post less as faulting Carpenter for getting hurt so much* than as a general observation that as long as he does get hurt for several weeks at a stretch every year, his utility to us is limited and consequently difficult to depend on.

 

* - Unless Carpenter is consistently doing something off-book that leads to his injury. Then yeah, it would be his fault.

[chasfh]

19 hours ago, alex said:

Agreed. Yet, 'IF' the Stros sign Bregman, we could still deal for Parades. It does not have to be a LH OF, maybe a prospect or two from pitching depth (or lower minor position players/Ps). Then Houston could turn around and sign someone like Verdugo to be a LH OF (they had been rumored to have contact with him earlier this off season). Then all the while adding some prospect depth (from Detroit) to their depleted system.

Just ideas... Parades, though not a great glove, could still help at 3B, put Vierling in the OF. Also, Parades is still quite young as well.

Thing is, if we do deal for Paredes, we'd essentially be betting on getting his three arb years at third for us and writing off Jace Jung as a future possibility for the position—unless we plan on moving Jung back to second, where he didn't play even a single pitch all last year.

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, Arlington said:

I'm a little mystified with the Carpenter platoon. How can such a successful hitter against RH pitchers be so terrible against lefties?  Is this a bit self-fulfilling?  Has Hinch's match-ups stymied his development?

It's not unusual for LHHs to have dramatic platoon shifts versus LHPs. It's considered somewhat less unacceptable given how about only a third of total plate appearances take place against LHPs. A RHH hitter couldn't survive for long in the majors having the same split problems against RHPs.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, 1776 said:

So Tork was told to go and work on XY and Z in the offseason and be ready to prove himself in spring training. With his being removed as the everyday first baseman, I am guessing that as early as at least a month ago he had convinced the front office he was failing his winter assignments? If so, that was quick. I’d wonder how much presence the FO had at Tork’s winter work assignments. 
I’m under the impression that the primary reason that the infield roulette game is on is because of Tork’s inability to be a reliable bat at first? Am I wrong or right on this assumption? 
To date, I’m not seeing a plan. Was there a plan? 

The details of any plan this winter is between the team and Tork. Harris doesn't lip off about that kind of thing like we got used to Avila doing. I would be shocked to learn that this front office had no idea what Tork's been doing this winter and simply pulled the decision to move Colt to first base out of their ear.

My guess is after monitoring Tork for the first two months of the offseason, they were dissatisfied with the results and made it clear they are cutting bait on him. I'd bet money they've been actively shopping him around.

[Edman85]

14 hours ago, Arlington said:

I liked that Harris decreased Maeda's salary from $14 to $10 for the second year. Unusual but it would make it easier to move him had he not turned out so utterly useless.

just wasting time here looking through Baseball Reference. See that Miggy signed his big contract extension in 2014 and it started in 2016.  He had a HOF caliber 2016.  For the rest of his $248 million contract extension, Miggy had a -2.7 WAR.  He actually would have retired with a higher WAR had he retired 7 years earlier.

They had cash to burn last year. Keith's deal had a signing bonus payable last year, I believe. It made sense to do some frontloading, because the young core is only going to get more expensive.

Edited 8 hours ago by Edman85

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

The details of any plan this winter is between the team and Tork. Harris doesn't lip off about that kind of thing like we got used to Avila doing. I would be shocked to learn that this front office had no idea what Tork's been doing this winter and simply pulled the decision to move Colt to first base out of their ear.

My guess is after monitoring Tork for the first two months of the offseason, they were dissatisfied with the results and made it clear they are cutting bait on him. I'd bet money they've been actively shopping him around.

What makes it a little harder to read is that Torres isn't going to be here after this season so the moves made to accommodate him are going to get unwound in '26. Who know what this is going to look like.

On the Torkelson front, I have no clue what has or hasn't passed between Torkelson and the team since October, I would only hope any good management would be reserving final judge on what a player is until they see what the player does in competitive game situations after whatever work he has done. There is no cookie cutter that reliably stamps out hitters. I suppose if he is goofing off that's one thing, but he he's chosen to work on things in a different priority, that gets pretty grey. Most players do know themselves better than anyone else does. I'd be more interested in what he shows actually show up with in ST than the details what his off-season regime were. But the reality is we don't know anything anyway. And the Truth is whether he toed the line to the team's satisfaction this off-season or or not, he still isn't going to have a spot if he doesn't hit better.

Edited 7 hours ago by gehringer_2

[monkeytargets39]

4 hours ago, casimir said:

Assume a 13 man pitching staff and take out the 2 catchers.

1B Keith

2B Torres

SS Baez/Sweeney

3B Jung/Ibanez

LF Greene

CF Meadows

RF Carpenter/Vierling

DH Torkelson

That's 11.  Now, we can debate back and forth the worthiness of McKinstry, but I think its likely safe to assume he makes the roster.  But at the expense of whom?  Perhaps an injury makes that decision, but that's no fun.  So, is it Torkelson, Jung, Baez?  Maybe Sweeney?

I think the OF is fine.  Greene plays just about everyday because he's the all around best position player on the club.  Meadows' glove can play everyday and its understood that isn't his calling card.  Carpenter is probably the best power threat (vs RHPs).  Vierling can probably play everyday among spelling the OFs and being an option at 3B if needed there.

But that IF..... egads.  It just seems like a lot is expected in terms of maturation amongst the youngsters and a rebound from Torres and Baez.  I have my doubts about how strong that limb is that the Tigers are seemingly willing to climb out onto.

Unless he comes out crushing in ST, I’d rather have Wenceel than Tork.  I also have a feeling that Baez will start on the DL and have an extended rehab.  

[casimir]

1 hour ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Unless he comes out crushing in ST, I’d rather have Wenceel than Tork.  I also have a feeling that Baez will start on the DL and have an extended rehab.  

Peres may be higher on the pecking order than Torkelson.  I’m just not sure there’s a spot for either on the 13 as of now.  They’re probably the first 2 off of the roster at this point, but who knows for sure.

A Baez IL stint probably works in favor of one of those players.

Sure would be nice if Malloy had developed as a 3B.

[gehringer_2]

52 minutes ago, casimir said:

Sure would be nice if Malloy had developed as a 3B.

Probably why ATL made him available.

Edited 5 hours ago by gehringer_2

[IdahoBert]

I never really expected anything big to happen this winter and the signing of Torres and others fall within that expected pattern. I was hoping for something that might depart from that pattern, but I guess not. And most of the possible additions we’ve considered are not unproblematic.

They’re basically betting on a big up swing from the youth movement and a general continuation of what transpired last year from everyone else. And there’s no reason why that couldn’t happen. But what the Scottish poet Robert Burns said about “the best laid plans of mice and men…“ being foiled seems relevant.

They seem to be acting like gamblers who have figured out how to beat the house. I hope they have.

[KL2]

Flaherty coming back

Edited 1 hour ago by KL2