2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[RandyMarsh]

Bregman likely isn't going to be "worth" 40 million a year from a pure production to dollar standpoint but for a team like the Tigers where each marginal gain and win could be the difference between the division or sitting at home he very well may have been worth it from that standpoint.

Basically Getting say 3 wins to go from 87 to 90 generally means alot more than going from 105 to 108 or 70 to 73 which is what I think Bregman could have potentially done for us. 

[Longgone]

1 minute ago, romad1 said:

Tork's advisors can argue this out if he likes.    

Tork's lawyer: "Your honor, i realize my client never produced as a 1st round generational talent as advertised, but when he was quoted out of context and the Detroit paper put his quotes in the article, they were smearing his good name. "

Tork: Yes your honor, I never intended to have those quotes indicate I didn't use the team's resources and data." 

Judge:  "So, you issued a correction? 

Tork:  "No"

Judge: "But you did use the resources provided by the team?"

Tork: "No, but I did come up with the Pizza Pizza-themed HR celebration" 

Judge: "You are in enough trouble, young man!  Counsel, please advise your client to stop this self-destructive testimony" 

Is there a point to this, or will you just ramble on?

[gehringer_2]

35 minutes ago, Longgone said:

And maybe in his case that’s what he needs to do. It may be that’s exactly what the club wants him to do. Perhaps all the analysis, for him, got him too mechanical. Hitting is a visceral activity. Maybe for him, being more athletic and reacting to what he is seeing is what will untap his ability. Being judgmental and making broad assumptions from random quotes is presumptuous.

It struck me that if he is making changes to get to more pitches so he can be more aggressive in the zone, that has to be what they want because that is what he needs to do. Also, early last year he was late a LOT, which is one symptom of trying to think too much/mental overload. I just want to see if he’s actually going look different, none of the talk about matters-what’s he going to hit?

the other thing to note is that as successful as the coaching staff has been with pitching, they still really have no particular claim to success with their hitting prescriptions. They have not been churning out hitters that exceed expectations. 

Edited February 14 by gehringer_2

[romad1]

5 minutes ago, Longgone said:

Is there a point to this, or will you just ramble on?

keep doing what your doing, it seems to be working great for you and Tork. 

[Longgone]

8 minutes ago, romad1 said:

keep doing what your doing, it seems to be working great for you and Tork. 

And you just carry on being judgmental and making broad assumptions out of random comments 

[1776]

45 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Example to make a ridiculous comparison for no other purpose but my own amusement. 

"Dear Mr and Mrs so-and so, 

Your son died while attempting a parachute jump out of a C-130 yesterday afternoon.  He didn't figure he needed to inspect his parachute because that's not what he's about.  He said he learns and applies skills differently and is more of a kinesiological learner so dogmatic approaches to parachute inspection are difficult for him to apply.  

Sincerely,  

Your son's boss"

ps, he landed in Toledo.

[romad1]

5 minutes ago, 1776 said:

ps, he landed in Toledo.

Snarf.  

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Longgone said:

And maybe in his case that’s what he needs to do. It may be that’s exactly what the club wants him to do. Perhaps all the analysis, for him, got him too mechanical. Hitting is a visceral activity. Maybe for him, being more athletic and reacting to what he is seeing is what will untap his ability. Being judgmental and making broad assumptions from random quotes is presumptuous.

You make a good point about Tork. I speculated a while ago that Tork is a grip-it-and-rip-it guy who wants nothing to do with the analytics, and that the more information he gets, that more he gets confused, and the worse he does, so he hates getting information because he's never had to use information before just to hit. He's always had to just go up there and hit. No big whoop. And he got paid $8 million upfront for hitting that way in college, so of course he doesn't want to change his way of hitting. And at a certain level, it makes sense that whatever worked in college is going to work anywhere else he plays.

But, no surprise, that's not how it work in the major leagues, the highest level of baseball in the world. It's a lot a lot different from college, and also, from the minors (where he seemed to do well until 2022). Even a transcendent hitter is not going to go up to the plate knowing nothing about anything except see ball hit ball and succeed in the majors. Not any more, anyway. Maybe Babe Ruth could do that a hundred years ago. Not today. These days, hitters have to be educated about pitchers, what they throw, what to look for in certain situations, and how to react to it when they think they see it. They have to think about and learn the process of hitting during practice in the offseason and during spring training and in the cages between games, so that when they are in actual games, the learning is totally ingrained and they don't have to think about process while they're in the box.

It doesn't look as me like that's what Tork is doing, though. Ironically, it looks like he is overthinking when he at the plate during the regular season. That tells me he didn't internalize all this during practice when he was supposed to, so when things start going south during games, it looks like he starts overthinking and pressing to try to shake himself out of his funk while in the box, which is exactly the wrong time to do that kind of thinking. That's what practice is for.

To your other point, I would be really, really surprised to learn that the Tigers take a certain kind of individual approach where they tell their hitters, you can choose to see the analytics, or you can choose to ignore them and just swing any way you like, doesn't matter to us. I believe it matters to them a great deal, since they have established a way they want to develop their players and have poured millions of dollars into the resources needed since 2022 to do so. I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that Tork is not failing as a hitter. The organization has presumably been doing everything they can into fixing that. They've made the resources available to him to help him figure it out, and he has said, flat out in the press this week, that he doesn't want anything to do with that, and essentially, the team should just leave him alone and let him do whatever he wants so he can figure it out himself. I just don't see how that makes good baseball or business sense for the Tigers to simply accept that.

Maybe I'm just a judgmental person talking here, but my takeaway from everything I have read about what has happened this offseason is that the Tigers are unhappy with how Tork has been approaching his job and they are making preparations to move on from him. And in all honesty, I hope you get to laugh, point at me and yell "See! I told you!" when Tork is born again hard and puts up the MVP season for the Tigers that befits a former 1/1 pick. Because I will gladly accept your derision to see that happen.

[Longgone]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

You make a good point about Tork. I speculated a while ago that Tork is a grip-it-and-rip-it guy who wants nothing to do with the analytics, and that the more information he gets, that more he gets confused, and the worse he does, so he hates getting information because he's never had to use information before just to hit. He's always had to just go up there and hit. No big whoop. And he got paid $8 million upfront for hitting that way in college, so of course he doesn't want to change his way of hitting. And at a certain level, it makes sense that whatever worked in college is going to work anywhere else he plays.

But, no surprise, that's not how it work in the major leagues, the highest level of baseball in the world. It's a lot a lot different from college, and also, from the minors (where he seemed to do well until 2022). Even a transcendent hitter is not going to go up to the plate knowing nothing about anything except see ball hit ball and succeed in the majors. Not any more, anyway. Maybe Babe Ruth could do that a hundred years ago. Not today. These days, hitters have to be educated about pitchers, what they throw, what to look for in certain situations, and how to react to it when they think they see it. They have to think about and learn the process of hitting during practice in the offseason and during spring training and in the cages between games, so that when they are in actual games, the learning is totally ingrained and they don't have to think about process while they're in the box.

It doesn't look as me like that's what Tork is doing, though. Ironically, it looks like he is overthinking when he at the plate during the regular season. That tells me he didn't internalize all this during practice when he was supposed to, so when things start going south during games, it looks like he starts overthinking and pressing to try to shake himself out of his funk while in the box, which is exactly the wrong time to do that kind of thinking. That's what practice is for.

To your other point, I would be really, really surprised to learn that the Tigers take a certain kind of individual approach where they tell their hitters, you can choose to see the analytics, or you can choose to ignore them and just swing any way you like, doesn't matter to us. I believe it matters to them a great deal, since they have established a way they want to develop their players and have poured millions of dollars into the resources needed since 2022 to do so. I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that Tork is not failing as a hitter. The organization has presumably been doing everything they can into fixing that. They've made the resources available to him to help him figure it out, and he has said, flat out in the press this week, that he doesn't want anything to do with that, and essentially, the team should just leave him alone and let him do whatever he wants so he can figure it out himself. I just don't see how that makes good baseball or business sense for the Tigers to simply accept that.

Maybe I'm just a judgmental person talking here, but my takeaway from everything I have read about what has happened this offseason is that the Tigers are unhappy with how Tork has been approaching his job and they are making preparations to move on from him. And in all honesty, I hope you get to laugh, point at me and yell "See! I told you!" when Tork is born again hard and puts up the MVP season for the Tigers that befits a former 1/1 pick. Because I will gladly accept your derision to see that happen.

The fact is, it’s just pointless speculation based on very little actual information. You don’t know how much, or to what degree he is utilizing resources, or really what are the actual issues that are holding him back. So any assumptions that he is uncooperative, or that the Tigers are displeased with anything regarding his efforts, other than production, are presumptuous.

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, Longgone said:

The fact is, it’s just pointless speculation based on very little actual information. You don’t know how much, or to what degree he is utilizing resources, or really what are the actual issues that are holding him back. So any assumptions that he is uncooperative, or that the Tigers are displeased with anything regarding his efforts, other than production, are presumptuous.

Everything we say in a Tigers forum is both pointless, in that it will not affect anyone's decision-making, and speculation, in that none of us are on the inside and have no real knowledge as to what's going on beyond what we have read. As such, this entire forum and all of its sub-forums is practically 100% pointless speculation.

In that spirit, your insistence that everything is fine with how Tork is approaching his job is also pointless speculation. In fact, it's even less than pointless speculation, since you are flat out rejecting what Tork himself was quoted as saying as being untrue.

[Longgone]

10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

In that spirit, your insistence that everything is fine with how Tork is approaching his job is also pointless speculation. In fact, it's even less than pointless speculation, since you are flat out rejecting what Tork himself was quoted as saying as being untrue.

Where did I ever say that? 

[Sports_Freak]

He has a full no trade clause. Typical;

 

[romad1]

4 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

He has a full no trade clause. Typical;

 

check the Cardinals fan's sites to see if they are salivating over Tork

[Toddwert]

maybe but I dont know how you get him to waive his no trade ?

[theroundsquare]

he hasn't hit LH pitching much since 2019.  i'd sooner roll with Vierling-Ibanez

[Sports_Freak]

1 minute ago, theroundsquare said:

he hasn't hit LH pitching much since 2019.  i'd sooner roll with Vierling-Ibanez

Agreed. And possibly Jung.

[Tigermojo]

I think Sweeney would be good at third if Baez is healthy.

[Toddwert]

too bad there is a net there because past the vistors  dugout is gonna be a great place to get some extra baseball with the unproven players at the corners

[Longgone]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Everything we say in a Tigers forum is both pointless, in that it will not affect anyone's decision-making, and speculation, in that none of us are on the inside and have no real knowledge as to what's going on beyond what we have read. As such, this entire forum and all of its sub-forums is practically 100% pointless speculation.

In that spirit, your insistence that everything is fine with how Tork is approaching his job is also pointless speculation. In fact, it's even less than pointless speculation, since you are flat out rejecting what Tork himself was quoted as saying as being untrue.

Saying you don’t know **** is not the same as saying I know. I don’t, and I’m not willing to brand someone with baseless speculation.

[Tenacious D]

Why would we want Arenado for 3 seasons?  I like what Scotty had to day today regarding Bregman:

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

check the Cardinals fan's sites to see if they are salivating over Tork

I don't think many are salivating over Arenado either.  He is already in deep decline and has three years left at 30 million.  I would think that acquiring him would be more about taking on salary than giving up players of value.  

[IdahoBert]

6 hours ago, romad1 said:

I have to say that if I see a editorial take from Carlos Monarrez I usually assume its lazy. 

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/carlos-monarrez/2025/02/14/alex-bregman-tigers-news-scott-harris-aj-hinch/78537729007/

 

This article seems intended to simply throw red meat to the unwashed huddled masses, yearning for spectacles. 

[romad1]

10 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

This article seems intended to simply throw red meat to the unwashed huddled masses, yearning for spectacles. 

I furiously concur. 

[monkeytargets39]

No on Arenado.  Too many years left of declining production.

[IdahoBert]

2 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Why would we want Arenado for 3 seasons?  I like what Scotty had to day today regarding Bregman:

This is really good, thanks for posting it. I didn’t see this anywhere else until here.

EDIT: it just popped up on my MLB app a few minutes ago.