2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[TigerNation]

9 hours ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

I don't mean to be debby downer, but we aren't making the playoffs next year. Even with Bregman..... Our team outperformed by a mile this past year. Cool story, was fun, but I'd be absolutely astonished if it happened again.

Lets look at our infielders Avg/OBP (From last year): (I'll even include Bregman)

Bregman - .260/.315
Sweeney - .218/.269
Torres - .257/.330
Keith - .260/.309
Jung - .241/.362 (79 AB's)

Catcher
Dingler - .167/.195
Rogers - .197/.255

OF
Karpenter - .284/.345
Greene - .262/.348
Meadows - .244/.310

 

We have basically 2 Average to slightly above average hitters out of 9...... In what world does that make the playoffs again. 

I pray to the heavens I'm wrong. But this team needs more talent. They need guys that can get on base more. They got lucky last year and it was an aberration. Now if they take massive steps forward, then we could be talking. But it'd have to be quite a few massive steps........ 
 

 

It seems that you have no idea what average actually means.

[gehringer_2]

56 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I think the longest contract he's given out is 2 years, to Maeda.

and so far that is, and I'm pretty confident will remain, a terrible signing. So that's one demerit for Harris on FAs so far to go with the other successes.

Edited Friday at 12:01 AM by gehringer_2

[Sports_Freak]

18 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

and so far that is, and I'm pretty confident will remain, a terrible signing. So that's one demerit for Harris on FAs so far to go with the other successes.

He's rebuilt this team and our minor leagues really quickly. But many fans (me) don't have much patience. For God's sake Scott, do SOMETHING! 😅😅

[Motor City Sonics]

31 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

He's rebuilt this team and our minor leagues really quickly. But many fans (me) don't have much patience. For God's sake Scott, do SOMETHING! 😅😅

I'm guessing less than 14 starts for Cobb and Torres hits about .235/.300/.650, OPS+ of 90, a WAR of 0.3 and 10 Home Runs.   He doesn't have all those big bats around him now.    And he'll be in the bottom 3 fielding 2b in MLB.  

This offseason sucks.  

[gehringer_2]

18 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I'm guessing less than 14 starts for Cobb and Torres hits about .235/.300/.650, OPS+ of 90, a WAR of 0.3 and 10 Home Runs.   He doesn't have all those big bats around him now.    And he'll be in the bottom 3 fielding 2b in MLB.  

This offseason sucks.  

On the bright side, if they are out of it, maybe they can flip Torres for something at the deadline.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

He's rebuilt this team and our minor leagues really quickly. But many fans (me) don't have much patience. For God's sake Scott, do SOMETHING! 😅😅

What irks me is that since Harris arrived every move seemed to fit into a consistent plan to create a team where the players fit together well enough that the team was greater than the sum of its parts, even if some like Maeda didn't work. There will always be misses. But nothing this season feels that way. They needed a front of rotation guy, they got a likely back ender, they didn't need a 2b who is anchored to one position, they brought one in. In fact, if Mike Ilitch were alive I'd say that was likely an owner's move like Prince was - but so far we don't have any indication Chris makes that kind of interventions. Then they bring in a 35 yr old reliever as their 'swing and miss' guy - gives me visions of Joe Nathan.

Edited Friday at 01:35 AM by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

11 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

What irks me is that since Harris arrived every move seemed to fit into a consistent plan to create a team where the players fit together well enough that the team was greater than the sum of its parts, even if some like Maeda didn't work. There will always be misses. But nothing this season feels that way. They needed a front of rotation guy, they got a likely back ender, they didn't need a 2b who is anchored to one position, they brought one in. In fact, if Mike Ilitch were alive I'd say that was likely an owner's move like Prince was - but so far we don't have any indication Chris makes that kind of interventions. Then they bring in a 35 yr old reliever as their 'swing and miss' guy - gives me visions of Joe Nathan.

I get the feeling Chris wouldn't know who Torres was.  It's not like he is a big name.  my hope is that Harris sees something in him where he thinks they can get him back to the level he was in his good years.  If they can do that, he can either give them a really good year in a playoff run or a half season before flipping him at the deadline.  I am kind of done with flipping players at the deadline though even if it worked out last year.    

[Tigermojo]

19 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I get the feeling Chris wouldn't know who Torres was.  It's not like he is a big name.  my hope is that Harris sees something in him where he thinks they can get him back to the level he was in his good years.  If they can do that, he can either give them a really good year in a playoff run or a half season before flipping him at the deadline.  I am kind of done with flipping players at the deadline though even if it worked out last year.    

I think he sees a good right handed bat and a potential qualifying offer to get a draft pick.

[papalawrence]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

On the bright side, if they are out of it, maybe they can flip Torres for something at the deadline.

If they are out of it, I suspect Harris will also field calls on Skubal.

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I'm guessing less than 14 starts for Cobb and Torres hits about .235/.300/.650, OPS+ of 90, a WAR of 0.3 and 10 Home Runs.   He doesn't have all those big bats around him now.    And he'll be in the bottom 3 fielding 2b in MLB.  

This offseason sucks.  

The Tigers will have to win a lot of low scoring games. Get busy Fetter!!

[Sports_Freak]

5 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

If they are out of it, I suspect Harris will also field calls on Skubal.

I was thinking about this. Harris needs to let Chris know how much it would cost to extend him and what kind of a return he could get for him. We may be able to get an entire left side of the infield for him with a pitching prospect thrown in. His value will never be higher. I would hate losing Skubal though.

[papalawrence]

11 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

The Tigers will have to win a lot of low scoring games. Get busy Fetter!!

The Dodgers are preparing to lure Fetter.

[Sports_Freak]

19 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

The Dodgers are preparing to lure Fetter.

They already had him. He's not going anywhere.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

4 hours ago, TigerNation said:

It seems that you have no idea what average actually means.

Not to be an ass, but what does that mean? It's pretty self explanatory.... I gave average and On base percentage..... 

[Tiger337]

8 hours ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Not to be an ass, but what does that mean? It's pretty self explanatory.... I gave average and On base percentage..... 

The average batting average in MLB was .243

The average OBP was .312.

So, your list had two players way above that and several players around average.  

 

[alex]

21 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

The average batting average in MLB was .243

The average OBP was .312.

So, your list had two players way above that and several players around average.  

 

Well said. This is 'not' the 1990s anymore for offensive production.

[Tenacious D]

47 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

The average batting average in MLB was .243

The average OBP was .312.

So, your list had two players way above that and several players around average.  

 

#LoweredExpectations

[chasfh]

12 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I get the feeling Chris wouldn't know who Torres was.  It's not like he is a big name.  my hope is that Harris sees something in him where he thinks they can get him back to the level he was in his good years.  If they can do that, he can either give them a really good year in a playoff run or a half season before flipping him at the deadline.  I am kind of done with flipping players at the deadline though even if it worked out last year.    

We also needed someone who can provide a couple or three wins at second base this year while McGonigle and Jung finish cooking.

[chasfh]

11 hours ago, papalawrence said:

If they are out of it, I suspect Harris will also field calls on Skubal.

I’ll bet you a fin Harris doesn’t even consider trading Skubal.

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

We also needed someone who can provide a couple or three wins at second base this year while McGonigle and Jung finish cooking.

Jung is 24 now, he needs to be close to well done at this point!

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Jung is 24 now, he needs to be close to well done at this point!

Yes, but Jung might not be done right now, let alone well done. And McGonigle is definitely not done. So we needed a second baseman, right? And he got one. Harris is trying to field a team that will win this year, and right-handed offense was an area of need, and he addressed it. So what’s the problem?

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

We also needed someone who can provide a couple or three wins at second base this year while McGonigle and Jung finish cooking.

Keith probably could have done that.  I'm not upset that they signed Torres.  It was a surprisingly good contract for the Tigers and he has offensive upside.  It was just odd because he doesn't seem like a great fit defensively.  He not a good fielder, not versatile, not even willing to move to change positions.  It seems to me like he was a good value, so they decided to jam him into the roster somehow.  

[Tenacious D]

Not sure what to believe anymore, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this were true.  I suspect Alex wants to go back to Houston and will wait that out until he’s forced.  I don’t see the Tigers pivoting away from him  with external options—the fallback is likely Jung/Vierling, so the Tigers can wait this out, too.

 

[chasfh]

12 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Keith probably could have done that.  I'm not upset that they signed Torres.  It was a surprisingly good contract for the Tigers and he has offensive upside.  It was just odd because he doesn't seem like a great fit defensively.  He not a good fielder, not versatile, not even willing to move to change positions.  It seems to me like he was a good value, so they decided to jam him into the roster somehow.  

I see it a little differently, and I'm responding to the whole board here, not just you.

I see the Torres signing as a way to get wins from a marketplace in which there is no perfect solution, and in which even the best solutions, at this moment, require exorbitant expense and commitment that will impact decision-making for the next half decade, especially given there are still so many other holes around the roster to fill. I don't think Harris thought we were assured enough of a certain playoff spot in 2025 to where signing such expensive talent would be the difference between crapping out in early October and playing into November.

I also don't think Harris merely enny-meeny-miney-moed Torres out of the discount bin at Walmart because he's cheap, and also, wants to bull**** fans and Ilitch into thinking he's doing something when all he's really doing is arranging deck chairs until the Dodgers call with a job offer.

Based on his track record so far, I am willing to give Harris the benefit of the doubt that he has a plan to win both now and in the future, until he demonstrates to me that he has no idea what he's doing. When he does demonstrate that, then I will get on board with some of the others here about him. But I don't believe he's at that point yet, especially just because he hasn't signed a particular guy or two yet.

I know everyone is sick of the waiting, and yes, the waiting is the hardest part. But some of us still remember how Dombrowski traded away the top of the farm system, and Papa Doc routinely empty the Brinks truck, in a failed attempt to win a ring with a team that was never once the best in the game (2013 being the closest), and how it hamstrung us once he bailed and the torch was passed to someone who was merely Peter-principled into the job and then smashed the franchise into the rocks within seven years. Speaking only for myself, I don't want to see a repeat of that, I'm glad Harris is not working on a repeat of that, and I'm willing to give him a chance to prove he can do the job until, again, he proves to me that he can't. If that makes me a dip**** slappy in the eyes of some, well, can't be helped.

[Tiger337]

43 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I see it a little differently, and I'm responding to the whole board here, not just you.

I see the Torres signing as a way to get wins from a marketplace in which there is no perfect solution, and in which even the best solutions, at this moment, require exorbitant expense and commitment that will impact decision-making for the next half decade, especially given there are still so many other holes around the roster to fill. I don't think Harris thought we were assured enough of a certain playoff spot in 2025 to where signing such expensive talent would be the difference between crapping out in early October and playing into November.

I also don't think Harris merely enny-meeny-miney-moed Torres out of the discount bin at Walmart because he's cheap, and also, wants to bull**** fans and Ilitch into thinking he's doing something when all he's really doing is arranging deck chairs until the Dodgers call with a job offer.

Based on his track record so far, I am willing to give Harris the benefit of the doubt that he has a plan to win both now and in the future, until he demonstrates to me that he has no idea what he's doing. When he does demonstrate that, then I will get on board with some of the others here about him. But I don't believe he's at that point yet, especially just because he hasn't signed a particular guy or two yet.

I know everyone is sick of the waiting, and yes, the waiting is the hardest part. But some of us still remember how Dombrowski traded away the top of the farm system, and Papa Doc routinely empty the Brinks truck, in a failed attempt to win a ring with a team that was never once the best in the game (2013 being the closest), and how it hamstrung us once he bailed and the torch was passed to someone who was merely Peter-principled into the job and then smashed the franchise into the rocks within seven years. Speaking only for myself, I don't want to see a repeat of that, I'm glad Harris is not working on a repeat of that, and I'm willing to give him a chance to prove he can do the job until, again, he proves to me that he can't. If that makes me a dip**** slappy in the eyes of some, well, can't be helped.

That is well said and I agree with much of it.  I like what Harris has done so far in his time with the Tigers and I trust him not to do anything stupid. I don't know what Harris thinks about their chances next year, so I am not disageeing with him.  I personally think they can win this year in a very winnable division and I do think a couple of significant moves could make a difference.  I am also not convinced that waiting two more years will put them in better positon.  Maybe they'll add a couple of good position players from their system by then. But there is also a likelihood that Skubal will be gone and that Greene will be getting really expensive which might force a trade. There is no magical point in the future where you can be sure is the right time.  Go for it now and go for it in the future too.