2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[chasfh]

21 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I am glad the Tigers apparently made a solid offer to Bregman.  It gives me hope that they won't be shy whe the right players are available.  As for hitters not wanting to come to Detroit, the flip side is they were able to sign Flaherty probably because Deroit is is a favorable environment for pitchers for multiple reasons.   

I figured once they threw 6/144 at Baez, and then even after that Ilitch still spent millions on infrastructure at the behest of the new guy, the team would be willing to pony up for the right guy. It still baffles me why they would have thought Bregman was that right guy. Maybe he could have been for 2025, even 2026. Probably not so much from 2027 on. But lots of fans wanted him, especially early on in the process, because you know how we fans can be when we are super laser focused on winning this year. “Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die …”

As for the environment tilted way to pitchers, I am definitely on the side of evening that out, and sooner than later, and if that means making the home bullpen ten feet wider than it is now, I’m down. The Orioles realized their mistake and changed, so it can be done.

[Motor City Sonics]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

I have to say that if I see a editorial take from Carlos Monarrez I usually assume its lazy. 

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/carlos-monarrez/2025/02/14/alex-bregman-tigers-news-scott-harris-aj-hinch/78537729007/

 

It can't be considered a failure if they never had a real chance at him in the first place.   He was never coming here.  We were used as leverage.   

[chasfh]

20 hours ago, romad1 said:

rumor relayer discusses what he thinks

So the rumor mill says maybe we didn’t offer 6/171 to Bregman? You don’t say.

[romad1]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

So the rumor mill says maybe we didn’t offer 6/171 to Bregman? You don’t say.

I dunno..   Maybe they offered  6/171 and prayed he didn't bite.  Or maybe they thought that would carry the day.   

Whatever, he's dead to me. 

[chasfh]

19 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't know why they didn't appear to have interest in Chapman.  He was my #1 target.  Perhaps, it was easier to convince ownership to get involved this year after making the playoffs last year.  

I would imagine it’s hard to get ownership to agree to lay out six years and nine figures on a free agent after finishing below .500 for seven straight years. Perhaps almost as hard as it is to get a premium free agent to commit the remaining six years of his career to a team in a cold, dreary rust belt city that finished below .500 for seven straight years.

[Longgone]

13 hours ago, ICroupier said:

Beyond all the reasons other have already expressed, Tork has been behaving like an uncoachable, do-it-his-own-way, selfish disappointment. His act of not listening to the team and then not performing on the field is tired.

Are you basing this on random quotes taken without context? All evidence is he’s a hardworking guy, and for all we know, he may be doing everything the club is asking of him. It’s amazing how fans can take a quote and create a whole scenario out of it.
 

[chasfh]

16 hours ago, papalawrence said:

If they stand pat and stay mostly healthy, I believe they can contend in the Central.

This is really true not only for us, but for most teams that want to contend. The Tigers had the fewest injury list days of any major league team in 2024; only one team had fewer players going on the list; and only two teams had fewer contract dollars on the list. That was really one underrated aspect of why we were so successful last year, especially late in the year when we started reeling off wins at a 70%+ clip.

The $64 question for me is, was that good luck for us, or did we make some gains in our medical staffing and approach that led to fewer debilitating injuries? We were top ten in keeping guys off the list in 2023, too. We will see going forward.

Perhaps Edman can tell us why our apparent success in maintaining team health is not really all I am cracking it up to be, maybe because we have so many green players in the organization we can move on and off the 26-man or something?

[romad1]

5 minutes ago, Longgone said:

Are you basing this on random quotes taken without context? All evidence is he’s a hardworking guy, and for all we know, he may be doing everything the club is asking of him. It’s amazing how fans can take a quote and create a whole scenario out of it.
 

if he didn't correct the quote.  He's poorly advised by his representatives. 

[Tigermojo]

6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

This is really true not only for us, but for most teams that want to contend. The Tigers had the fewest injury list days of any major league team in 2024; only one team had fewer players going on the list; and only two teams had fewer contract dollars on the list. That was really one underrated aspect of why we were so successful last year, especially late in the year when we started reeling off wins at a 70%+ clip.

The $64 question for me is, was that good luck for us, or did we make some gains in our medical staffing and approach that led to fewer debilitating injuries? We were top ten in keeping guys off the list in 2023, too. We will see going forward.

Perhaps Edman can tell us why our apparent success in maintaining team health is not really all I am cracking it up to be, maybe because we have so many green players in the organization we can move on and off the 26-man or something?

https://pbats.com/pbats-announces-2024-season-awards/#:~:text=The Detroit Tigers athletic training,and professionalism throughout the season.”

 

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

If the Tigers had him for three years, then what happened in 2028 would be someone else's problem!

That sounds awful good on paper, although, setting aside the idea that the Tigers were never going to sign Bregman under any circumstances, we were never going to get him for only three years. Not as long as any other team was also on the table for three years, which would have been a lot more teams than those offering six. Because if the idea of signing short term is to put up video game numbers so he could finally sign his $200MM deal next winter, he wasn’t going to do that here.

I’m still not 100% convinced we had an actual 6/171 on the table for Bregman, but accepting the story that there was, an offer like that was our only shot to get him, and that would have had to entail two things: (1) giving him a player opt out basically every season he’s here, which it was said we didn’t offer for year one; and (2) getting him to potentially commit the final six years of his career to living in Detroit the same way Javy has, and there’s no way on god’s green earth Bregman doesn’t know how abjectly miserable Javy is in Detroit.

Edited February 14 by chasfh

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

I have to say that if I see a editorial take from Carlos Monarrez I usually assume its lazy. 

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/carlos-monarrez/2025/02/14/alex-bregman-tigers-news-scott-harris-aj-hinch/78537729007/

 

Well, you know, Carlos has to live in this town … 😏

[Longgone]

11 minutes ago, romad1 said:

if he didn't correct the quote.  He's poorly advised by his representatives. 

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the quote. People learn and apply skills differently. What’s useful for some doesn’t work for others. You can’t tell what’s actually going on from a few quotes.

[chasfh]

19 minutes ago, Longgone said:

Are you basing this on random quotes taken without context? All evidence is he’s a hardworking guy, and for all we know, he may be doing everything the club is asking of him. It’s amazing how fans can take a quote and create a whole scenario out of it.
 

A player can be uncoachable, do-it-his-own-way, selfish, and hard-working. All those things could be true at the same time.

As for the idea of his doing everything the club is asking of him, Tork was directly quoted this week saying how he doesn’t like to look at numbers or video and likes to just basically grip it and rip it and let the launch off the bat tell him how he’s doing. Given how steeped in data and video this organization has been reported to be for the last two years, that smells like a lot of smoke to me, anyway.

[Toddwert]

25 minutes ago, Longgone said:

Are you basing this on random quotes taken without context? All evidence is he’s a hardworking guy, and for all we know, he may be doing everything the club is asking of him. It’s amazing how fans can take a quote and create a whole scenario out of it.
 

or that they gave him a mission this off season and in a few month they found a replacement for his position doesnt speak well of how he responded to said mission

[Longgone]

7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

A player can be uncoachable, do-it-his-own-way, selfish, and hard-working. All those things could be true at the same time.

As for the idea of his doing everything the club is asking of him, Tork was directly quoted this week saying how he doesn’t like to look at numbers or video and likes to just basically grip it and rip it and let the launch off the bat tell him how he’s doing. Given how steeped in data and video this organization has been reported to be for the last two years, that smells like a lot of smoke to me, anyway.

And maybe in his case that’s what he needs to do. It may be that’s exactly what the club wants him to do. Perhaps all the analysis, for him, got him too mechanical. Hitting is a visceral activity. Maybe for him, being more athletic and reacting to what he is seeing is what will untap his ability. Being judgmental and making broad assumptions from random quotes is presumptuous.

[romad1]

12 minutes ago, Longgone said:

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the quote. People learn and apply skills differently. What’s useful for some doesn’t work for others. You can’t tell what’s actually going on from a few quotes.

Example to make a ridiculous comparison for no other purpose but my own amusement. 

"Dear Mr and Mrs so-and so, 

Your son died while attempting a parachute jump out of a C-130 yesterday afternoon.  He didn't figure he needed to inspect his parachute because that's not what he's about.  He said he learns and applies skills differently and is more of a kinesiological learner so dogmatic approaches to parachute inspection are difficult for him to apply.  

Sincerely,  

Your son's boss"

[romad1]

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

A player can be uncoachable, do-it-his-own-way, selfish, and hard-working. All those things could be true at the same time.

As for the idea of his doing everything the club is asking of him, Tork was directly quoted this week saying how he doesn’t like to look at numbers or video and likes to just basically grip it and rip it and let the launch off the bat tell him how he’s doing. Given how steeped in data and video this organization has been reported to be for the last two years, that smells like a lot of smoke to me, anyway.

I gather that a lot of great hitters were tough to coach and had a hard time passing those hitting skills along.  But that does not mean eschewing data-driven approaches are acceptable in a situation where you are trying to apply it to an organization. 

[Longgone]

Just now, romad1 said:

Example to make a ridiculous comparison for no other purpose but my own amusement. 

"Dear Mr and Mrs so-and so, 

Your son died while attempting a parachute jump out of a C-130 yesterday afternoon.  He didn't figure he needed to inspect his parachute because that's not what he's about.  He said he learns and applies skills differently and is more of a kinesiological learner so dogmatic approaches to parachute inspection are difficult for him to apply.  

Sincerely,  

Your son's boss"

Way to stretch a point beyond recognition 

[romad1]

Just now, Longgone said:

Way to stretch a point beyond recognition 

that was my goal.  

[Longgone]

Just now, romad1 said:

that was my goal.  

You succeeded 

[romad1]

Torkelson had best deliver.  If he's going to present himself as a contrary example.  He's best advised to be the Barry Sanders of hitting a baseball soon. 

[Longgone]

4 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Torkelson had best deliver.  If he's going to present himself as a contrary example.  He's best advised to be the Barry Sanders of hitting a baseball soon. 

I don’t think he’s a contrary example. I think you are building a world out of floss.

[monkeytargets39]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

A lot of people on the old board were arguing that 15 years ago. Imagine how it felt to watch the Tigers rushing in the opposite direction.

I think that particular front office was snowed by that generational SP talent we had in the early 2010s, especially 2013. “Oh, this is easy. We can do this all the time forever.”

Basically since we moved to Comerica Park, we’ve had 3 horrible team building strategies:

 

1.) Draft low ceiling pitchers and then try to fill the roster with “5 tool players” who were athletic but not actually good at anything useful in particular (Macias, Kingsale, McMillon, Cedeno, Sanchez, Lombard, Magee, Bocachica, Torres) because the park is big so we need guys who might be able to hit triples!  Only trade with Houston and San Diego for some reason.

 

2.) Go over slot on every first round draft pick and convince them to sign, only to then trade them a couple years later as our top prospects for big name players.  Go under slot the rest of the draft and eventually have nothing in the pipeline.  Since we have very little talent in the minors aside from a few mega prospects (Maybin, Miller, Turner, etc.) then there’s no need to have a great coaching staff, invest in analytics, or have an organizational identity on how we want to play.

 

3.) Sell off all of the good players accumulated in the previous regime for pennies on the dollar.  Build through the draft, but do nothing to develop any of the talent in the minor leagues-just let them get by on their own natural skill sets.  Take a swing on one big free agent who has red flags every couple of years because fans will support a fledgling team with one disappointing superstar.  Trade anything of value whenever you can, but only for low minors prospects.

 

 

 

This Harris regime is the first time this century where we have a group that is actually trying to put a competitive team on the field in Detroit while also nurturing the farm system, staying current with analytics, and making sound financial decisions for the teams continued growth.

[Tenacious D]

As a reminder, if the Tigers need to pivot and pursue an external RH bat, it doesn’t have to be a 3B.  With Vierling’s flexibility, we can also look at RF.

 

Edited February 14 by Tenacious D

[romad1]

6 minutes ago, Longgone said:

I don’t think he’s a contrary example. I think you are building a world out of floss.

Tork's advisors can argue this out if he likes.    

Tork's lawyer: "Your honor, i realize my client never produced as a 1st round generational talent as advertised, but when he was quoted out of context and the Detroit paper put his quotes in the article, they were smearing his good name. "

Tork: Yes your honor, I never intended to have those quotes indicate I didn't use the team's resources and data." 

Judge:  "So, you issued a correction? 

Tork:  "No"

Judge: "But you did use the resources provided by the team?"

Tork: "No, but I did come up with the Pizza Pizza-themed HR celebration" 

Judge: "You are in enough trouble, young man!  Counsel, please advise your client to stop this self-destructive testimony"