2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[Sports_Freak]

I remember a few years ago, the Tigers front office went on camera and said the rebuild was over and it was time to win. So don't tell me about players deep in our system that will soon make the difference. Sorry...let's see if they even make it.

[Tiger337]

 

3 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

I'm not interested in your odds. And neither is Harris.

I am interested.  

[Tiger337]

I don't want to see an "evaluation year".  They've been doing that for like 7 years now.  I want to see a competive team.  They can be reasonably competitive and continue to develop young players at the same time.  Skubal, Olson, Jobe, another signing like Flaherty/Lorenzon plus Mize makes a solid front five.  There are always relievers available, add a couple of secondary bats and try to win.  If it's not working at the deadlinem then call it an evaluation season.  

[alex]

11 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Off-season priorities as I see them:

 

1.) Everyone being healthy.   

2.) Add pitching: 2 Starters, 2 relievers.  RPs should ideally be high leverage type.  Ideally get one high level starter and one short contract bounce back guy a la Flaherty.
 

3.) Reps for either Keith or Jung at 1B as a contingency plan for Torkelson during offseason and spring.  Maybe platoon Tork if he hasn’t progressed offensively.
 

4.) Move on from the following players:  Wentz, McKinstry, one of Brieske/Faedo.

 

A healthy 26 man roster of:

C- Rogers/Dingler

1B- Tork/Keith

2B- Keith/Jung

SS- Baez/Sweeney

3B- Vierling/Jung

LF- Greene/Vierling

CF- Meadows/Perez

RF- Carpenter/Perez

DH- Malloy/Greene/Carpenter

That’s an acceptable offense (minus Baez) if it’s healthy.  Don’t really see a reason to need to add to it.  If you’re going to platoon this lineup, do it properly.

 

SP- Skubal/Olson/FA/FA/Mize

RP- Holton/Maeda/Vest/Foley/Brieske or Faedo/one of Miller-Vanasco-Lange, FA/FA

Would be nice if we could pencil in Manning somewhere in there but we will see.

Montero/Sammons/SGL/Lockhart/Jobe/Madden at Toledo is acceptable depth in the rotation.  Hopefully SGL and Jobe can force their way up but give it time.

 

Not spending a ton of money, and Maeda would be off the books after this season also.  Since we sold this year, play the young guys the rest of this year and next year—don’t pepper in more Canhas and Gios.

 

Everyone being healthy for any team is unrealistic. They have to have alot of depth and hopefully are understanding this - especially when it comes to SP. To have 5 of 8 or 6 of 9 'bullpen games' is terrible and handing opponents wins. It ruins the BP and is no doubt taken a toll on morale. A good SP gives a team an extra boost each game ex Skubal, Flaherty, etc. or as JLeyland used to say - 'Momentum is the next days SP'. I have said this many times, you cannot have Wentz and/or Hutchinson, '23 & '22 respectively (both 104 IP apx ea of the last two years) second on the team in IP by seasons end. A recipe for disaster.

Teams need to perhaps approach SP a bit differently and start paying for 150 IP (to journeyman types maybe) regardless if in the Majors or AAA. This would allow for more depth and FA signings.

I agree with what David Cone once said, paraphrasing, 'Teams are starting to realize they need literally 10 SP that could possibly pitch 150 innings between MLB and AAA/AA.' Maybe some of that is 'bulk bullpen' or whatever you want to call it. It has become more and more true.

Even now this team needs to find another SP (or two) ex CIrvin DFA by Baltimore this week, etc. Someone other than more BP games. They have to be smarter than this. He is a lefty, pitching in Comerica, let him know we can help him!?

All rosters have literally 25% turnover from season to season (if not more). The Tigers next year will be no exception. There will be injuries. Add a quality player or two and some depth. We/they all know positions of need and perhaps trade from an excess of good young players at a particular position ex 2B (Jung, Keith, Lee, McGonigle, etc.) and add to a position of need ex 3B.

 

[casimir]

13 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Well, I'm glad he has a spokesman on the Forum.

At least he didn't ALL CAPS you.

[RatkoVarda]

12 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

That’s an acceptable offense (minus Baez) if it’s healthy.  Don’t really see a reason to need to add to it.

as mentioned, no team avoids injuries, and Harris is on notice that many of the core players have hit IL multiple times, and that regression is not only possible but probably will hit some players.

they need to add 2 bats minimum (Canha-level or above) if not 3: someone who play 1b; a left side IF, and a RH OF with power. Harris cannot hide behind "evaluation" BS any more. 

[monkeytargets39]

3 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

as mentioned, no team avoids injuries, and Harris is on notice that many of the core players have hit IL multiple times, and that regression is not only possible but probably will hit some players.

they need to add 2 bats minimum (Canha-level or above) if not 3: someone who play 1b; a left side IF, and a RH OF with power. Harris cannot hide behind "evaluation" BS any more. 

I don’t disagree at all- but I’m fully prepared for 2025 to start with Torkelson playing 1st (maybe platooned with Jung) and Malloy/Vierling being our RH OF “with power” and maybe a FA signing like JD Davis to be a short term 3B.

 

Any actual money will be spent on pitching because they pretty much have to bring in some arms based on the current roster and farm system.

 

Then we will be sold that this is the start of the young core era and to hope for everyone’s upside will show up.

 

Edited August 1 by monkeytargets39

[papalawrence]

Love to see a season of health for Greene and Carpenter

[kdog]

On 8/1/2024 at 12:05 AM, Tiger337 said:

I don't want to see an "evaluation year".  They've been doing that for like 7 years now.  I want to see a competive team.  They can be reasonably competitive and continue to develop young players at the same time.  Skubal, Olson, Jobe, another signing like Flaherty/Lorenzon plus Mize makes a solid front five.  There are always relievers available, add a couple of secondary bats and try to win.  If it's not working at the deadlinem then call it an evaluation season.  

I would love this too. But this rebuild is about avoiding risk(bad long term contracts) at any cost. So if the choice is between a bad few years on a contract or an unproven young player, they will choose to let the young guy sink or swim in the majors.

And if they need a vet, it will be an Urshela or Canha type. Harris is telling you what his plan is, we have to listen to him. The majority of improvement will come with development. If that doesn't work, we have to wait for the next wave of young guys. It's actually ingenious, you can keep pushing back timelines because we can't block young players.

[chasfh]

On 7/31/2024 at 11:05 PM, Tiger337 said:

I don't want to see an "evaluation year".  They've been doing that for like 7 years now.  I want to see a competive team.  They can be reasonably competitive and continue to develop young players at the same time.  Skubal, Olson, Jobe, another signing like Flaherty/Lorenzon plus Mize makes a solid front five.  There are always relievers available, add a couple of secondary bats and try to win.  If it's not working at the deadlinem then call it an evaluation season.  

Who would be the primary bats in this scenario? Riley, Colt … who else?

[kdog]

10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Who would be the primary bats in this scenario? Riley, Colt … who else?

Meadows is a 'bat' if he can hit homers and make a little contact. Hopefully he can actually stick around through the end of the year and show something. But he did that last year and then couldn't sustain it to start 2024...same with Tork. I tend to believe that Harris is going to double down on these guys again if they show a pulse. IMO, they are getting deference as core players. They'll repeat 10th grade again. If it doesn't work, that will be their last shot.

[Tenacious D]

Let’s not forget that Carpenter, Meadows, Greene and Tork were all being counted on to provide the bulk of our offense this year.  Only Greene has been able to deliver on that and now dealing with his annual significant injury.  I don’t think we can write off any of these guys—hopefully we can get this group back to Detroit for at least part of the remaining games.

[kdog]

40 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Let’s not forget that Carpenter, Meadows, Greene and Tork were all being counted on to provide the bulk of our offense this year.  Only Greene has been able to deliver on that and now dealing with his annual significant injury.  I don’t think we can write off any of these guys—hopefully we can get this group back to Detroit for at least part of the remaining games.

Carpenter missed a month last year and it looks he's going to miss June-September this year. Injury has to be a concern, especially if he has to play the field. Harris doubled down on his open DH spot for next year so that's probably happening again.

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Who would be the primary bats in this scenario? Riley, Colt … who else?

There a lots of questiona marks with the line-up, but they were playing close to .500 ball with a garbage line-up for most of this season. Maybe Carpenter stays healthy all year. Maybe Jung, Malloy or Dingler will hit.  Try out Meadows and Torkelson again. Vierling, Perez and Ibanez are coming back.  I want them to try to be the team that breaks out and surprise everyone.  Of course, they could not even try to win and sit around and lose 90+ games for the next three years until all of Harris's draft picks are ready, but I prefer that they try to do something.  

[monkeytargets39]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

There a lots of questiona marks with the line-up, but they were playing close to .500 ball with a garbage line-up for most of this season. Maybe Carpenter stays healthy all year. Maybe Jung, Malloy or Dingler will hit.  Try out Meadows and Torkelson again. Vierling, Perez and Ibanez are coming back.  I want them to try to be the team that breaks out and surprise everyone.  Of course, they could not even try to win and sit around and lose 90+ games for the next three years until all of Harris's draft picks are ready, but I prefer that they try to do something.  

We’ve at a minimum seen flashes of what a bunch of these guys could be-  and a lot of them are plenty capable.

 

Running McKinstry/Urshela/Baez/Canha-esque players out there constantly when we already know they aren’t part of a winning formula is what gets me.  If we aren’t going to spend much in free agency until Harris’ guys get to Detroit, then at least let the roster be the guys who may actually contribute to the future and not placeholders.

[Tenacious D]

All of those empty AB’s that go to McKinstry and Baez are tough to overcome.  I’m less negative towards Urshela—he at least has a good AB and isn’t a black hole. I don’t see him as blocking Jung—he’ll be up when they think he’s ready.

[SoCalTiger]

Playing McStinky does not help us this year or future years. Total waste of “runway “. 
Cut him and bring someone else up. 

[SeattleMike]

8 hours ago, chasfh said:

Who would be the primary bats in this scenario? Riley, Colt … who else?

No faith in Carpenter? 

[1984Echoes]

On 8/1/2024 at 12:05 AM, Tiger337 said:

I don't want to see an "evaluation year".  ...  I want to see a competitive team...

PS: I was going to say these were odd statements... only in the sense that they are not mutually exclusive. They can do both in 2025, and I think they will be... Competitive. Even whilst they try to figure out who fits best at 1B (Tork?, Keith?, other?), 2B (Keith?, Lee?, Jung? ...), SS (Baez?, use a bandaid like Navigato or Cruz or Workman or some one else until McGonigle and/ or Rainer have a chance of breaking through?), 3B (Jung?, Vierling?, does Keith's shoulder improve to the point he can try 3B again?), etc...

I think the talent level is there... to be playoff competitive... but positions are in flux or "under evaluation" to figure out who fits where/ Also... CF. Because however that works out affects who plays the corners and DH.

It's funny though... right after you made these two as separate statements:

 

On 8/1/2024 at 12:05 AM, Tiger337 said:

...  They can be reasonably competitive and continue to develop young players at the same time.  Skubal, Olson, Jobe, another signing like Flaherty/Lorenzon plus Mize makes a solid front five.  There are always relievers available, add a couple of secondary bats and try to win.  If it's not working at the deadline then... 

You said basically the same thing right here (where I bolded...): That they are NOT mutually exclusive.

If they flop next year... I wouldn't call it an "evaluation season". It IS an evaluation season, period (IMO). But if they flop and trade at the deadline instead of pushing for the playoffs... I wouldn't call it an "evaluation season" (it IS regardless...), I would call it a "Lost Season". Lost to injuries or a major flop by a key player or two or whatever throws us off...

SO: Short Story: Not only do I expect further evaluation of all these young kids (and where they fit into, or do not fit into, the future, but, ALSO: I EXPECT next year's team to make the playoffs. Even with ALL these kids going through growing pains... Yep, I still expect them to make the playoffs.

 

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

PS: I was going to say these were odd statements... only in the sense that they are not mutually exclusive. They can do both in 2025, and I think they will be... Competitive. Even whilst they try to figure out who fits best at 1B (Tork?, Keith?, other?), 2B (Keith?, Lee?, Jung? ...), SS (Baez?, use a bandaid like Navigato or Cruz or Workman or some one else until McGonigle and/ or Rainer have a chance of breaking through?), 3B (Jung?, Vierling?, does Keith's shoulder improve to the point he can try 3B again?), etc...

I think the talent level is there... to be playoff competitive... but positions are in flux or "under evaluation" to figure out who fits where/ Also... CF. Because however that works out affects who plays the corners and DH.

It's funny though... right after you made these two as separate statements:

 

You said basically the same thing right here (where I bolded...): That they are NOT mutually exclusive.

If they flop next year... I wouldn't call it an "evaluation season". It IS an evaluation season, period (IMO). But if they flop and trade at the deadline instead of pushing for the playoffs... I wouldn't call it an "evaluation season" (it IS regardless...), I would call it a "Lost Season". Lost to injuries or a major flop by a key player or two or whatever throws us off...

SO: Short Story: Not only do I expect further evaluation of all these young kids (and where they fit into, or do not fit into, the future, but, ALSO: I EXPECT next year's team to make the playoffs. Even with ALL these kids going through growing pains... Yep, I still expect them to make the playoffs.

 

So, we basically agree, but if you expect them to make the playoffs then it's not really an "evaluation year".  You could say that every year is an evaluation year,but if you expect them to make the playoffs, it's not primarily an evaluation year.   

In my way of thinking, every year should be a competitive year except for occasional duds where you know they have no chance.  If you have too many of those then your organization is failing.  

[1984Echoes]

On 7/31/2024 at 8:14 PM, gehringer_2 said:

Well, I'm glad he has a spokesman on the Forum.

😁

[1984Echoes]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

So, we basically agree, but if you expect them to make the playoffs then it's not really an "evaluation year".  You could say that every year is an evaluation year,but if you expect them to make the playoffs, it's not primarily an evaluation year.   

In my way of thinking, every year should be a competitive year except for occasional duds where you know they have no chance.  If you have too many of those then your organization is failing.  

The only reason I'm calling it BOTH a competitive year and evaluation year is that: I believe that they WILL be competitive, but still evaluating these guys for positional purposes.

 

IE: I think at 1B, if Tork doesn't make it back, that we will STILL be good at 1B because Harris will end up flipping Keith, or Jung there. We won't struggle as much as we have in 2024 at 1B because there will be several good options to put there (IMO), if one doesn't work out.

IE: If Keith gets moved off of 2B (either to cover 1B or his shoulder is good enough to take over playing 3B) then Jung should be both ready (and competent) to replace him at 2B. I also think Lee in 2025 will be able to do the same thing.

It's situations like these where I believe, even if there is some "flux" in 2025; we will be better off in 2025 than we have been in 2024 because our options (players) will be better.

The "flux" or evaluation portion of next year does NOT scare me.... even with these (flux/ evaluations), I believe we will still be competitive and make a serious playoff push. IMO, this is the natural upswing arc or young players/ learning curves: the transition from "young/ struggles/ not-yet-competitive" to "young/ settled (or checking position fits but NOT struggling)/ playoff competitive". IMO, I think we are on that upswing. Even if everything is not yet 100% settled.

[SoCalTiger]

On some level, isn’t every season and evaluation season no matter how good the team is?

[Tigermojo]

A competitive team wouldn't have the amount of question marks the Tigers did entering this season. They answered a lot of questions on players this year and still have time to answer more. Then we'll see what happens in the offseason. Does Harris add proven players or not?

We have a pretty good idea about most of these guys at this point. I'm sure there will be some of them being evaluated next year but the majority will be expected to perform. I think it's time to compete next year or Harris should have traded Skubal.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Tigermojo said:

... We have a pretty good idea about most of these guys at this point. I'm sure there will be some of them being evaluated next year but the majority will be expected to perform. I think it's time to compete next year ...

Basically, this.