2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[casimir]

Nah, they need to be serious.  Ha-Seong Kim for 3B or I am moving to Canada.

[casimir]

On 7/31/2024 at 6:35 PM, chasfh said:

Not to go all thread cop on everyone here but I dislike the idea of having an offseason thread active when the actual season still has two months left in it. See you then, I guess.

Ha!  I glanced at the start date and figured I’d check out the first couple of posts.

[Dan Gilmore]

To be fair, almost anyone standing next to Prince looks slim.

[kdog]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Nah, they need to be serious.  Ha-Seong Kim for 3B or I am moving to Canada.

Get ready to learn Canadian, eh.

[Shinzaki]

If we add an OF bat...Vierling might be our 3B...

[casimir]

9 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

If we add an OF bat...Vierling might be our 3B...

I was looking at a few things between he and Burger.  I think I'd prefer Vierling at 3B rather than Burger.

[Motor City Sonics]

5 minutes ago, casimir said:

I was looking at a few things between he and Burger.  I think I'd prefer Vierling at 3B rather than Burger.

And he's already here.    Aim higher than this, please.      (not you, Chris & Scott)

Edited Wednesday at 12:24 PM by Motor City Sonics

[alex]

13 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

And he's already here.    Aim higher than this, please.      (not you, Chris & Scott)

Hmm, a rumor out there that Alec Bohm could be available. Maybe he (via trade, of course depends on what you have to give up) and a RGrichuk combo from FA?

Not concerned about having too many players for any positions. We should ALL know by now 'depth' is of utmost importance. There will be injuries, etc.

[Motor City Sonics]

6 minutes ago, alex said:

Hmm, a rumor out there that Alec Bohm could be available. Maybe he (via trade, of course depends on what you have to give up) and a RGrichuk combo from FA?

Not concerned about having too many players for any positions. We should ALL know by now 'depth' is of utmost importance. There will be injuries, etc.

But we already have Matt Vierling.   He's just a slightly better-hitting version of Vierling.     Don't need to trade a prospect to get Vierling.  

[Tiger337]

I'd be wary of Bohm.  He is not a good fielder and has had one year (2024) with more than 1 WAR.  In that one year, he didn't hit in the second half.   

[alex]

30 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I'd be wary of Bohm.  He is not a good fielder and has had one year (2024) with more than 1 WAR.  In that one year, he didn't hit in the second half.   

I do agree here.

All depends on the cost. Maybe they might feel they could make him better all around. He kinda has not lived up to his billing (then again Tork, Mize, Manning, etc.)

I think they will go after someone who they may be able to help - but also make them a better overall team. The bigger FAs just may be a bit too expensive in terms of the salary COMBINED with contract length. Does not seem more than four years is often very wise.

Yet, most any team with a mid to upper level total payroll often has a waning vet or two (or three) on board.

[Tenacious D]

34 minutes ago, alex said:

I do agree here.

All depends on the cost. Maybe they might feel they could make him better all around. He kinda has not lived up to his billing (then again Tork, Mize, Manning, etc.)

I think they will go after someone who they may be able to help - but also make them a better overall team. The bigger FAs just may be a bit too expensive in terms of the salary COMBINED with contract length. Does not seem more than four years is often very wise.

Yet, most any team with a mid to upper level total payroll often has a waning vet or two (or three) on board.

Kind of like Jonathan India a year ago.  The idea of getting these guys is much better than the reality.

[RatkoVarda]

every player is flawed.

just find some players better than the ones they have and keep this moving forward

[gehringer_2]

38 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

every player is flawed.

just find some players better than the ones they have and keep this moving forward

The trick is to keep your evaluations on level basis. A FO might get too down on its own players because they see the flaws too closely (grass is greener syndrome), or get too in love with their own players because of selection bias (Avila?). You'd think analytics would reduce these effects but  at least for now  - there are still people making the decisions so it can still happen. Not to mention that less quantifiable non-baseball issues can still end up important as they have with Franco.

Edited Wednesday at 03:58 PM by gehringer_2

[monkeytargets39]

Just out of curiosity, what types of numbers would Torkelson need to put up to be satisfactory to justify not spending a load of cash on an upgrade at 1B?

 

I personally want the extreme majority of any money spent on pitching help and depth, as well as legit attempts to lock up current players.

[casimir]

I think we as a group start talking with Ha-seong Kim's people and take care of 3B for Harris.  I'd say we offer 2/$25M pending a reasonable chance that he's a productive IF by Memorial Day.  I think we can do that.  I just don't know how we get the checkbook from the Tigers, but I'm open to suggestions.

[gehringer_2]

Just for context, there were 25 1B with 350 AB last season, the median wRC+ was 109. Tork was at 90 for his full season but 125 after his return in August. So he 'just' has to be his best self. Still, being consistent in the majors is a lot easier said than done.

Also he improved to neutral to slightly positive as a fielder last season as per both Statcast and BR so less concern that he has to overcome liability there.

Edited Wednesday at 04:15 PM by gehringer_2

[kdog]

Until proven otherwise, I don't believe that they are interested in any kind of contractual risk. I expect a medium sized right handed bat acquired via trade and a few starting pitchers on cost controlled deals. I don't think a Skubal window exists for them. It will be 80% about internal development.

Edited Wednesday at 04:10 PM by kdog

[theroundsquare]

16 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Just out of curiosity, what types of numbers would Torkelson need to put up to be satisfactory to justify not spending a load of cash on an upgrade at 1B?

 

I personally want the extreme majority of any money spent on pitching help and depth, as well as legit attempts to lock up current players.

For me, he needs to OPS .750, but with a good component of that coming from slugging and not OBP.  The problem is that the team will find out too late if he can do it, i.e., they have to spend now

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

every player is flawed.

just find some players better than the ones they have and keep this moving forward

Yes, but the main trick is determining whether the replacement at hand is better than the resource you have in house. If so, the next trick is to not overpay in years and risk checkmating yourself if it's not working out.

[gehringer_2]

11 minutes ago, chasfh said:

 the next trick is to not overpay in years and risk checkmating yourself if it's not working out.

I think the smart people running baseball teams have figured out that in baseball you get paid for what you did more than what you are going to do. That means there are two ways to run a franchise. If you are rich enough to be NYY or LAD, you buy the proven players knowing you will end up paying much higher $$ per performance but you don't care because you have the income.  The alternative to invest all you can in the front end and field young cheap teams where the players are building the resumes that will get them paid later, but who are cheap now. The other bonus is that younger players are healthier, faster and play better defense. If you are a low revenue team, this is your path. You might spend on extending guys early and buying out arb years plus, but the older top FAs are not going to be your playing field because the never pay back their contracts in their second halves.

The trick is don't get caught in the middle like the Tigers did post DD, paying for players you can't afford who don't produce, which stresses your development spending. I think you have to avoid ending up half in/half out.

Which is why I don't take much comfort in the  "the Tigers will spend when they are ready"  line because what I don't want them to do is what they did before.

[SoCalTiger]

Tork is going to be on First base opening day. It's very clear player development is the path Harris is taking. He is very good at drafting and development and waiver wire grabs. Not so sure how good of trader he is of yet, seems overly cautious which might be ok, and Illitch will spend reluctantly but Harris knows that if he pays for a Lemon he could be golfing with Al..and Baez-Zimmerman-etc etc...

[Motor City Sonics]

7 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I'd be wary of Bohm.  He is not a good fielder and has had one year (2024) with more than 1 WAR.  In that one year, he didn't hit in the second half.   

I'd rather just stick with Vierling in that role.   He's fine there.    He's already here - assets don't have to be sent elsewhere to have him here.      It would have been like trading Bobby Higginson for Jayson Werth...........same guy, basically. 

[kdog]

 

https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2024/11/espn-to-exclusively-present-2025-mlb-opening-day-doubleheader-featuring-both-world-series-champion-los-angeles-dodgers-and-american-league-champion-new-york-yankees/

[TcFlint]

On 11/12/2024 at 1:34 PM, KL2 said:

Signed ERod and Baez

Since then, Different Owner, GM, and Head Coach.  Totally different hierarchy.