2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[SoCalTiger]

51 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'm always willing to give a bat at least more than one year - but the disappointing thing with Jung was his play at 3b. Defensive improvements are almost harder to come by. A lot of guys with batting talent take a while to figure out MLB pitching but do eventually get there after >500 AB. But if a guy doesn't seem to show an aptitude for a position in the field, that's as often due physical constraints that may not have much scope to change. ...Just looked at his logs - I guess he only had 68 games at Toledo at 3b before his call-up - I thought he had gotten in more time there. Between playing some at 2B and being out 3wks I guess not.....

Whatever, he needs to play 3rd better if he is going to stay there.

Your observation is astute as always and for my limited and humble evaluation  I agree. My opinion is not fair because he just screams linebacker to me and not an agile defender. Limited range and arm without the foot speed for the outfield and too short for first base. I doubt the current admin would have drafted him. He has a good eye and seems like a “baller” but unless he starts slamming home runs I’m not feeling it perhaps unfairly and incorrect. 

[SoCalTiger]

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

It might be tough to get anyone good if you're willing to part with McGonigle OR Rainer.

I do notice you seem willing to part with Jung. If so, I would find that interesting because he is still ranked #5 in the system by Pipeline ahead of Briceno and Liranzo, who are both big flavors this month. I don't know were Fangraphs will have him but I wouldn't doubt it would be as high as #5 with them, too. It's just interesting because we broke the seal on the guy and he didn't play like Rookie of the Year, so a lot of people here—not meaning you in particular, but a lot—seem ready to kick him to the curb for next to nothing.

I'm not saying I want to keep him, necessarily—only that I find it interesting so many fans are already done with him, a guy who still appears to have a bright future in baseball..

You are correct as usual I wouldn’t have any problem trading Jung. In fact given the high rating he has I would be inclined to trade him soon before he exposes himself more as an over rated prospect by playing in the show. In hindsight, which even blind squirrels are good at, we could have gotten a nice haul for Torkelson after his 30 homer season. Easy to say I know but back to Jung he might bring us a player who fits our needs better.  Indecision is a losing proposition. 

[Arlington]

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

Agree with this. 

Ditto

[Timmitch55]

19 hours ago, Arlington said:

Trading prospects is the way to go right now, but replacing those prospects will be a little harder now that the Tigers have had success and are picking later with less available money. It will be interesting to see if Harris goes the path of restocking through trades ala Tampa Bay or depleting through trades ala Dombrowski. 

LOTS of dead wood on the 40 man. And I'm talking about arms. The 40 man will look a lot different by Spring Training. By then our GM will have  a new nickname. Scottie Dipoto

[Timmitch55]

6 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

You are correct as usual I wouldn’t have any problem trading Jung. In fact given the high rating he has I would be inclined to trade him soon before he exposes himself more as an over rated prospect by playing in the show. In hindsight, which even blind squirrels are good at, we could have gotten a nice haul for Torkelson after his 30 homer season. Easy to say I know but back to Jung he might bring us a player who fits our needs better.  Indecision is a losing proposition. 

Second base is JJ natural fit.  There are a few teams that have a need. But I could also see a 3 B platoon with a guy like Kim

[Tigermojo]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/12/tigers-interested-in-ha-seong-kim.html

Seems like Kim and the Tigers could be a perfect fit for each other.

[casimir]

16 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/12/tigers-interested-in-ha-seong-kim.html

Seems like Kim and the Tigers could be a perfect fit for each other.

Indeed.  Make it happen.

[Tenacious D]

21 minutes ago, casimir said:

Indeed.  Make it happen.

What am I missing?  His career OBP is under .330.  Seems like his value is more defensively than on offense.

[RatkoVarda]

maybe other teams are scared away, maybe an opportunity, but some real risk here for a defense-first player

"agent Scott Boras said a late-April return is possible, while Padres president of baseball operations A.J. Preller in October said Kim might not be ready until 'May, June, July.'”

[SoCalTiger]

If Ha-Seong-Kim's right arm heals 100 % and he can play short I would go four years for him since he could be our shortstop until McGonigle is ready and at worst be a super upgrade for McStinky. But will his arm heal ? If he an't play shortstop we do not need him. Again I see him returning to SD on a one year prove he's ok deal. Or LA snagging him.

[casimir]

39 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

What am I missing?  His career OBP is under .330.  Seems like his value is more defensively than on offense.

The list of 2024 Tiger hitters with an OBP above .320 that also played on the IF is as follows: Mark Canha, Bligh Madris, and Jace Jung.  That’s it, that’s the list.  So if you want to look at just that aspect of his game, it’s an improvement over last season before factoring in the defense.

I think he’s a good buy low candidate that is a solid hitter that can extend a lineup, and his base running/stealing is something that the Tigers could also use.  He’s not Bregman or Adames as an overall talent.  That’s fine.  And I understand he may not be 100% to start the season.  That’s fine.  Give him a 2 year prove it deal which shouldn’t break the bank and it would allow to use capital for other needs.  If he can put up his floor in 2025 and his ceiling in 2026, that buys a little time for Jung to get his stuff together in Toledo.  He also becomes a viable RHH SS candidate if/when the Tigers cut bait on Baez.

[Tigermojo]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Indeed.  Make it happen.

Scott Harris put me on hold.

[casimir]

2 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

Scott Harris put me on hold.

You can’t message him on LinkedIn?

[Tigermojo]

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

You can’t message him on LinkedIn?

Then he would want to hire me because of my amazing resume but I'm too busy posting here.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

What am I missing?  His career OBP is under .330.  Seems like his value is more defensively than on offense.

He's a shortstop and good fielder.  He was a 5 WAR player before the injury.  The injury definitely complicates things though.  

[chasfh]

19 hours ago, Nate7474 said:

I’m not done with him and would be happy to keep him.
 

However, For me he is an attractive trade chip that we can part with as his lefty hitting and more second base profile is already on the roster. 

Trade chip, sure. That could make sense in certain circumstances—for instance, we've signed Alex Bregman, or otherwise acquired an experienced everyday third baseman.

But it seems too many fans, including here, want to rush Jace Jung out of town through trade, as though that should be a priority this year, because some version of "he sucks". But think about it: he may be #5 prospect and that may make him sound attractive as a trade chip, but if Harris were shopping Jung around the league while it's known that we do not have an established player to take third base in his place, wouldn't that look like a red flag about Jung to potential trade partners?

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

What am I missing?  His career OBP is under .330.  Seems like his value is more defensively than on offense.

Fun facts:

• Kim's OBP as a shortstop places him 11th out of 27 on this list.
• MLB average OBP during in the league since 2021 is .315. Kim's career OBP of .326 exceeds this.
• Kim's OBP the past two years is .351 and .330, so his trend is up, not down.
• Kim has already had seasons of 4.9 in 2022 and 5.8 in 2023, and his 2.6 bWAR last year during a season in which he was injured for 40 games is still (checks Tigers 2024 page to make sure) higher than any shortstop we currently have in the system.
• Signing Ha-Seong Kim to the one- or two-year deal he is projected to receive will not be enough to prevent us from signing Juan Soto.

Counterpoint:

Trey Sweeney's WAR in 2024 of 0.7 in 36 games and 119 PA is roughly the same WAR rate Kim's 2.6 was for 121 games and 470 PA. The $64 question at hand is, do we want to post up with Trey Sweeney for 2025 without undertaking any serious efforts to see whether we can obtain a more established, more predictable shortstop in the short term instead?

[gehringer_2]

23 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Fun facts:

• Kim's OBP as a shortstop places him 11th out of 27 on this list.
• MLB average OBP during in the league since 2021 is .315. Kim's career OBP of .326 exceeds this.
• Kim's OBP the past two years is .351 and .330, so his trend is up, not down.
• Kim has already had seasons of 4.9 in 2022 and 5.8 in 2023, and his 2.6 bWAR last year during a season in which he was injured for 40 games is still (checks Tigers 2024 page to make sure) higher than any shortstop we currently have in the system.
• Signing Ha-Seong Kim to the one- or two-year deal he is projected to receive will not be enough to prevent us from signing Juan Soto.

Counterpoint:

Trey Sweeney's WAR in 2024 of 0.7 in 36 games and 119 PA is roughly the same WAR rate Kim's 2.6 was for 121 games and 470 PA. The $64 question at hand is, do we want to post up with Trey Sweeney for 2025 without undertaking any serious efforts to see whether we can obtain a more established, more predictable shortstop in the short term instead?

well, the good news with Sweeney is that in his 1st 55 PA, he OPS'd 540, in his final 65, he OPS'd 725. That's too small a sample size for much of anything except to say he did show some adaptation and that the first couple of weeks of scouting didn't immediately find some hole in his approach to exploit.

From what I saw in the way of prospect reports about him, the early thinking was the bat would play, but there were doubts about his defense. In his short audition I thought the D looked OK, so if the Tigers also believe in the bat, I won't be surprised to see him start next season as the regular SS.

[Tiger337]

12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

well, the good news with Sweeney is that in his 1st 55 PA, he OPS'd 540, in his final 65, he OPS'd 725. That's too small a sample size for much of anything except to say he did show some adaptation and that the first couple of weeks of scouting didn't immediately find some hole in his approach to exploit.

From what I saw in the way of prospect reports about him, the early thinking was the bat would play, but there were doubts about his defense. In his short audition I thought the D looked OK, so if the Tigers also believe in the bat, I won't be surprised to see him start next season as the regular SS.

I put Sweeney in the Jung category - has some promise, but not certain enough where they would forego an upgrade.  

[gehringer_2]

38 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I put Sweeney in the Jung category - has some promise, but not certain enough where they would forego an upgrade.  

agree they are two players in very similar circumstances - I'd give the nod to Sweeney as being in a little stronger position just because I think he held down his fielding position better.

[casimir]

3 hours ago, Tigermojo said:

Then he would want to hire me because of my amazing resume but I'm too busy posting here.

Did you put “MTF regular” on your resume?

[Tigermojo]

13 minutes ago, casimir said:

Did you put “MTF regular” on your resume?

Irregular Moran Esq.

[SoCalTiger]

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

Trade chip, sure. That could make sense in certain circumstances—for instance, we've signed Alex Bregman, or otherwise acquired an experienced everyday third baseman.

But it seems too many fans, including here, want to rush Jace Jung out of town through trade, as though that should be a priority this year, because some version of "he sucks". But think about it: he may be #5 prospect and that may make him sound attractive as a trade chip, but if Harris were shopping Jung around the league while it's known that we do not have an established player to take third base in his place, wouldn't that look like a red flag about Jung to potential trade partners?

True but we don’t have to trade him for an established third baseman. That can come in a separate deal. Maybe a real good pitching prospect equally rated. 

[ICroupier]

Nvm Kim. Give me Suzuki. Much better bat (and RH), which is what we need.

[casimir]

11 minutes ago, ICroupier said:

Nvm Kim. Give me Suzuki. Much better bat (and RH), which is what we need.

I wouldn’t be against it, per se.  But what is the OF/DH alignment?  What becomes of 3B?  Vierling?

Or why not acquire both Kim and Suzuki and maybe Carpenter is moved for prospects?

Edited December 9, 2024 by casimir