2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[Hongbit]

25 minutes ago, Longgone said:

More likely than a salary cap 

Baseball is the outlier. Every other sport has a cap.  Sure, the players will hate it and it may lead to a strike, but a cap should be on the table as an option.  It’s not an impossibility.  

Easy way to get it on the table is to introduce something much worse to the players and then come back the salary cap.   That thing that is much worse…non-guaranteed contracts.  

A cap beats the other option.  All the non multi-billionaire owners sell their teams to VC guys and the league becomes a real life billionaires fantasy league. 

Edited December 10, 2024 by Hongbit

[gehringer_2]

32 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

It will help the competitive balance when it comes to the acquisition and retention of players.  

there is another way to look at it though. The rich franchises pay these crazy salaries that never return their value in wins, and that soaks up the revenue differential and in a backward kind of way that's an equalizing force. It's just a weird setup. In the main, your billionaires don't buy teams to make money from them, so the guys lucky enough to own the NY and LA teams are going to end up with a ton more income, and it has to go somewhere if the owner doesn't care about taking it out of the team in profit. Now in a perfect world, those LA and NY owners might realize that spreading the income around more would lead to a better league, but they are too competitive for sharing money with other owners to appeal to them. So you have a lot of money with basically no-where to go but silly salary levels for lucky athletes. Dumb set-up, but here we are.

Edited December 10, 2024 by gehringer_2

[oblong]

28 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

It will help the competitive balance when it comes to the acquisition and retention of players.  

We’ve always had a system where the top teams could spend more.  Now, we’ve reached a point where 80% of the league doesn’t even have the option to consider an offer for top players.     It’s not even about not wanting to spend the money.  They don’t have the money.   

This will also have huge impact on teams trying to retain their players.   Tarik Skubal will not be a Tiger in 2 years.   They can not pay stupid dollars and term like he will get from the top teams.   He will have to be traded at the deadline or maybe even will leave scot free if the team is in the playoff race.   There won’t any debates to keep him or  not and there won’t be anyone hammering Chris for not spending money.  It’s really going to suck for all of us having to watch it happen knowing there’s nothing to be done. 

 It’s sort of like this already but we will move to where it never happens that even a single young star stays with the non big money team that they came up with.   Teams like the Tigers will become like a major league farm team for them.  

MLB is the only major sport without some type of cap.  Something needs to be put in place that either slows the cost of doing business or at least brings that rapid growth inline with increased outside revenue.    NFL and NBA have record TV deals and are branching out into new platforms.  They are both seeing significant revenue growth that is driving salary up.  Baseball is not in this category.  Their TV deals are messy and in flux.  I don’t see the financial growth of the league flourishing to the same levels that spending has.   I see two VC billionaires spending crazy money for their own personal gain.   I don’t see how any of it is good for the future of the game and seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

 

 

 

Is not being able to sign the top free agents that big of a problem for many clubs?  I am not sure it is.  An unintended consequence of these guys going for such big money to just a few teams is you take an unwise option off the table for most teams, something they might be happy about. Under a cap maybe Soto is within range but it would still be for a deal the signing club will wish was off the books for a good chunk of it. 

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, oblong said:

you take an unwise option off the table for most teams,

interesting take.

[Hongbit]

2 minutes ago, oblong said:

Is not being able to sign the top free agents that big of a problem for many clubs?  I am not sure it is.  An unintended consequence of these guys going for such big money to just a few teams is you take an unwise option off the table for most teams, something they might be happy about. Under a cap maybe Soto is within range but it would still be for a deal the signing club will wish was off the books for a good chunk of it. 

Things have changed now we’ve gotten into the stupid 12 to 15 year terms on these deals.   The Soto contact won’t be unwise for 7 or 8 years.   In the near term, he’s in his prime and probably worth every dollar.    The added guaranteed money and term is what makes it such a dumb contract.  

[1776]

Max Fried to the Yankees.

DALLAS — After his big-league debut in 2019, Max Fried enjoyed an extended run better than any other Atlanta Bravespitcher since John Smoltz, the last of the team’s “Big Three” Hall of Fame pitchers to leave the franchise nearly two decades ago.

Now it’s Fried’s turn to leave the franchise that turned him into a star. On Tuesday, Fried signed an eight-year, $218 million deal with the New York Yankees, a league source confirmed to the The Athletic. The deal, first reported by ESPN, is the most lucrative ever for a left-handed pitcher and the fourth largest pitching contract overall. The move comes after the Yankees’ failed pursuit of Juan Soto. Prior to agreeing with the Yankees, The Athletic’sKen Rosenthal reported that the Boston Red Sox and Toronto Blue Jays both had interest in the southpaw.

 

[Hongbit]

9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

there is another way to look at it though. The rich franchises pay these crazy salaries that never return their value in wins, and that soaks up the revenue differential and in a backward kind of way that's an equalizing force. It's just a weird setup. In the main, your billionaires don't buy teams to make money from them, so the guys lucky enough to own the NY and LA teams are going to end up with a ton more income, and it has to go somewhere if the owner doesn't care about taking it out of the team in profit. Now in a perfect world, those LA and NY owners might realize that spreading the income around more would lead to a better league, but they are too competitive for sharing money with other owners to appeal to them. So you have a lot of money with basically no-where to go but silly salary levels for lucky athletes. Dumb set-up, but here we are.

It hasn’t been this way in the past but I think we may start seeing a stronger  correlation between FA spending and winning.    Expanded playoffs along with free spending by only a few will create a situation where just a rash of massive injuries will keep the top teams from making a deep playoff run every year.   I wouldn’t be surprised to see a push for a 5 game first round playoff series to further ensure the marquee teams and players are in the CS and WS.

 

[monkeytargets39]

Call me insane, but with all of the struggles going on in the country, it’s getting really hard to read about the amounts of money high level baseball players are getting now.  I’m all for them getting theirs….but good grief.  

[Hongbit]

5 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Call me insane, but with all of the struggles going on in the country, it’s getting really hard to read about the amounts of money high level baseball players are getting now.  I’m all for them getting theirs….but good grief.  

My issue is that it doesn’t feel like organic growth.  The game isn’t exploding with popularity like the NFL which is creating this giant increase in guaranteed money.  It feels like a few billionaires in ideal markets throwing money around because they can and it serves their personal interests.  

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

It hasn’t been this way in the past but I think we may start seeing a stronger  correlation between FA spending and winning.    Expanded playoffs along with free spending by only a few will create a situation where just a rash of massive injuries will keep the top teams from making a deep playoff run every year.   I wouldn’t be surprised to see a push for a 5 game first round playoff series to further ensure the marquee teams and players are in the CS and WS.

 

baseball being baseball, you could put the bottom team from a division in the playoff and it would still win a WS occasionally - outcomes of individual baseball games and short series are just far more random than the talent level inputs. That said, no doubt the probability of getting to the playoffs tracks salary level - that's already true, it's only the large number of teams eligible that insure some less rich team or two gets a shot at the big spenders each year the way the Tigers did. 

But I think you are right that the rich teams will be pushing for longer series to reduce the odds of bad bounces negating the value of their spending.

[RatkoVarda]

13 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Call me insane, but with all of the struggles going on in the country, it’s getting really hard to read about the amounts of money high level baseball players are getting now.  I’m all for them getting theirs….but good grief.  

would you prefer the owners keep the money for themselves?

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

My issue is that it doesn’t feel like organic growth.  The game isn’t exploding with popularity like the NFL which is creating this giant increase in guaranteed money.  It feels like a few billionaires in ideal markets throwing money around because they can and it serves their personal interests.  

IDK, the revenue is actually there in NYC and LA. Yankees and Dodgers have incomes well over $500-600M/yr. The sport's popularity may be waning nationally, but it still generates huge income in its best markets.

[monkeytargets39]

2 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

would you prefer the owners keep the money for themselves?

No.  I’d prefer they pass the savings onto the fans and the stadium event employees if they’re making so much money.  Or invest it back into the cities that support the teams.  
 

but that’ll never happen.

[RatkoVarda]

34 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Now it’s Fried’s turn to leave the franchise that turned him into a star. On Tuesday, Fried signed an eight-year, $218 million deal with the New York Yankees, a league source confirmed to the The Athletic. The deal, first reported by ESPN, is the most lucrative ever for a left-handed pitcher and the fourth largest pitching contract overall.

there's Skubal's floor; Fried hit free agency for his age 31 season

Skubal (with more history of injuries) will hit free agency for his age 30 season

Edited December 10, 2024 by RatkoVarda

[Tigermojo]

Akil Baddoo designated for assignment to make room for Cobb. 

That first year was fun. Baddooooooooo

[monkeytargets39]

6 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

Akil Baddoo designated for assignment to make room for Cobb. 

That first year was fun. Baddooooooooo

I’d be a bit surprised if someone doesn’t pick him up.

Edited December 11, 2024 by monkeytargets39

[RatkoVarda]

Cobb gets $15M with up to $2M more in incentives. alrighty then.

[RatkoVarda]

Rangers keep Eovaldi 3/75 thru age 37

[ICroupier]

9 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Rangers keep Eovaldi 3/75 thru age 37

Yikes! That Eovaldi deal sure makes me feel a whole lot better about the Cobb contract.

[papalawrence]

2 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Call me insane, but with all of the struggles going on in the country, it’s getting really hard to read about the amounts of money high level baseball players are getting now.  I’m all for them getting theirs….but good grief.  

Take a gander at NBA salaries. QB salaries. Yep, it's crazy

[Tenacious D]

The amount that Fried received is the case to go after Burnes.  They are the same age and had similar WAR last season.  He becomes insurance if you can’t resign Skubal—we can definitely afford both. Coupled with Jobe and Olson and this rotation would be elite for a while.

We saw what pitching and defense did for us last season and if Greene and Carpenter stay healthy for a season, with improvements from Keith and Tork, and this team could be competitive—and that’s before Clark, McGonigle and Liranzo emerge.

[Jim Cowan]

4 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I’d be a bit surprised if someone doesn’t pick him up.

Absolutely, teams will see that 20/20 potential and think that they can fix the hit tool.

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said:

Absolutely, teams will see that 20/20 potential and think that they can fix the hit tool.

Maybe he signs back with us.  He’s still next man up in Toledo.

[romad1]

Tigers reported to be interested with air quotes in the Freep headline in Japanese starter Roki Sasaki.  Independent of baseball reasons, It would be good for the city to have a good, followable Japanese player on the roster since the city is digging its way out of 57-80 years of bad PR internationally.   That is no reason to spend unwisely or to disrupt their lineup.  But, they have some of the infrastructure in place (Kenta Maeda's interpreter) to support another Japanese ballplayer on the roster and in the clubhouse.  

While overseas in S.Korea during the Hideo Nomo-on-the-Tigers era, i noted that Japanese TV broadcasts would cover his games.  This preceded the proliferation of satellite channels we have today but still.  

Basically...bring better attention to Detroit internationally via having an up and coming player.  We can all agree that is basically a good thing.

 

[papalawrence]

Would love to see Sasaki in Detroit. From most of what I've read he seems destined for SD or LAD. Money isn't a huge issue given it comes from international pool. He's going to go wherever he wants, and I think every team will make a push