2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

Tigers reported to be interested with air quotes in the Freep headline in Japanese starter Roki Sasaki.  Independent of baseball reasons, It would be good for the city to have a good, followable Japanese player on the roster since the city is digging its way out of 57-80 years of bad PR internationally.   That is no reason to spend unwisely or to disrupt their lineup.  But, they have some of the infrastructure in place (Kenta Maeda's interpreter) to support another Japanese ballplayer on the roster and in the clubhouse.  

While overseas in S.Korea during the Hideo Nomo-on-the-Tigers era, i noted that Japanese TV broadcasts would cover his games.  This preceded the proliferation of satellite channels we have today but still.  

Basically...bring better attention to Detroit internationally via having an up and coming player.  We can all agree that is basically a good thing.

 

Harris has already stated he’s interested and that the Tigers will make a compelling presentation to Sasaki.  While he’s bound to whatever a team is willing to pay out of their International allocation, he can choose freely.

I suspect every team will aggressively pursue him.

[alex]

13 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I’d be a bit surprised if someone doesn’t pick him up.

I agree as well (Someone will pick up Baddoo).

Edited December 11, 2024 by alex

[chasfh]

16 hours ago, Hongbit said:

It will help the competitive balance when it comes to the acquisition and retention of players.  

We’ve always had a system where the top teams could spend more.  Now, we’ve reached a point where 80% of the league doesn’t even have the option to consider an offer for top players.     It’s not even about not wanting to spend the money.  They don’t have the money.   

This will also have huge impact on teams trying to retain their players.   Tarik Skubal will not be a Tiger in 2 years.   They can not pay stupid dollars and term like he will get from the top teams.   He will have to be traded at the deadline or maybe even will leave scot free if the team is in the playoff race.   There won’t any debates to keep him or  not and there won’t be anyone hammering Chris for not spending money.  It’s really going to suck for all of us having to watch it happen knowing there’s nothing to be done. 

 It’s sort of like this already but we will move to where it never happens that even a single young star stays with the non big money team that they came up with.   Teams like the Tigers will become like a major league farm team for them.  

MLB is the only major sport without some type of cap.  Something needs to be put in place that either slows the cost of doing business or at least brings that rapid growth inline with increased outside revenue.    NFL and NBA have record TV deals and are branching out into new platforms.  They are both seeing significant revenue growth that is driving salary up.  Baseball is not in this category.  Their TV deals are messy and in flux.  I don’t see the financial growth of the league flourishing to the same levels that spending has.   I see two VC billionaires spending crazy money for their own personal gain.   I don’t see how any of it is good for the future of the game and seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

 

 

 

Good answer, thanks.

The luxury tax was intended to act soft salary cap and that’s exactly what it is: a cap on cheap teams that allow it to be, or small market teams that are forced into it; and nothing to a team that doesn’t give a **** about what they spend on players. So, to your point, if you want to significantly level the playing field, they’d have to come up with something harder.

The … ahem … $64 question is what would the cap have to be in order to be effective. If they make it too high, obviously, the big market teams would still outspend the majority of teams that would voluntarily keep themselves well under it anyway. It’s true that a few teams on the margins today might join that elite group under a high-cap scenario. But it would still be an elite group, and it would still be a clear minority of teams.

If they make the cap too low, then to free agents, it becomes less about who pays you more, because teams essentially are on even footing, and more about lifestyle choice, such as where your family lives, or where your family want to move to America to live, or where the media you want to highlight your personal brand are, or basically, who happens to be winning right now.

Either way, I think most fans would probably believe the Tigers would lose under either scenario, because in a too-high-cap scenario the Tigers would presumably still not keep up with major market teams—because Ilitch, I guess—and in a too-low-cap scenario, free agents would not choose to come to Detroit as a lifestyle choice, basically same as today.

So, short of bringing back the reserve clause, I’m not sure how they can essentially “force” players to stay in or choose Detroit as a place to play ball and live six or so months a year, even in a salary cap situation.

[kdog]

This might be a bit harsh. But I think Harris cares more about development and process wins to much bigger degree than winning games next year. He wants to win. But he's not going to take on contractual risk to make the team better in 2025 just because of 'momentum' or the 'Skubal Window.'

As a fan who cares about next year, it's a bit frustrating. But that's my way of reconciling things. We might take a step back because they have development losses and no contigency plans. But they don't want contigencies from older vets on bad contracts. 

[RandyMarsh]

Just now, kdog said:

This might be a bit harsh. But I think Harris cares more about development and process wins to much bigger degree than winning games next year. He wants to win. But he's not going to take on contractual risk to make the team better in 2025 just because of 'momentum' or the 'Skubal Window.'

As a fan who cares about next year, it's a bit frustrating. But that's my way of reconciling things. We might take a step back because they have development losses and no contigency plans. But they don't want contigencies from older vets on bad contracts. 

Agreed, to him it's not about creating a singular season but building a foundation and team that is set up for great seasons for the foreseeable future. 

Brad Holmes of the Lions is building this same way, they want to have sustained success and aren't going to risk that for a chance at a great season. 

[chasfh]

As far as Tiger fans are concerned, I think the wild card question for our future is what kind of spender this Ilitch will be. Seems like most posters here believe Baby Doc will turn the team into the Pirates or Rockies, if we’re unlucky, or into the Rays, if we’re lucky. Meaning, whether we win or lose on the field, we still lose our Skubals at free agent time and, who knows, maybe our Greenes, too.

Personally, I do not accept at face value that’s what he’s is going to do. He may not throw money around practically indiscriminately the way Papa Doc did—which I don’t think would be a good thing, anyway—but he has has already shown that, if he’s been convinced we’re in a position to win, he will spend the money. Exhibit A: Javy Baez. The Pirates or Rockies or White Sox owners would never have done that, were they in our position at the time.

I agree with people who say they don’t think Harris would have come here if he knew we’d become the Rays and lose all our homegrown players at crunch time, so if we win at all, we’ll have to do so on a shoestring. Others might think he would take one of only 30 available job no matter where it is, but I think Harris was smart enough and career-focused enough to vet the situation well before accepting the job here.

Bottom line, I will choose to believe the Tigers will spend when it’s time, until they prove to me they won’t. It’s simply not time to push in all those chips just yet. Too many other holes he inherited that we still have to address. But I do think it will happen.

[kdog]

6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

As far as Tiger fans are concerned, I think the wild card question for our future is what kind of spender this Ilitch will be. Seems like most posters here believe Baby Doc will turn the team into the Pirates or Rockies, if we’re unlucky, or into the Rays, if we’re lucky. Meaning, whether we win or lose on the field, we still lose our Skubals at free agent time and, who knows, maybe our Greenes, too.

Personally, I do not accept at face value that’s what he’s is going to do. He may not throw money around practically indiscriminately the way Papa Doc did—which I don’t think would be a good thing, anyway—but he has has already shown that, if he’s been convinced we’re in a position to win, he will spend the money. Exhibit A: Javy Baez. The Pirates or Rockies or White Sox owners would never have done that, were they in our position at the time.

I agree with people who say they don’t think Harris would have come here if he knew we’d become the Rays and lose all our homegrown players at crunch time, so if we win at all, we’ll have to do so on a shoestring. Others might think he would take one of only 30 available job no matter where it is, but I think Harris was smart enough and career-focused enough to vet the situation well before accepting the job here.

Bottom line, I will choose to believe the Tigers will spend when it’s time, until they prove to me they won’t. It’s simply not time to push in all those chips just yet. Too many other holes he inherited that we still have to address. But I do think it will happen.

I want them to spend on retaining their own guys. I'm not expecting any long term spending on outside free agents.

[ben9753]

Having virtually every big name FA go to one of the Yankees, Mets or LAD for stupid amounts the past few years has really put a damper on my enthusiasm for the game.

[KL2]

1 hour ago, kdog said:

This might be a bit harsh. But I think Harris cares more about development and process wins to much bigger degree than winning games next year. He wants to win. But he's not going to take on contractual risk to make the team better in 2025 just because of 'momentum' or the 'Skubal Window.'

As a fan who cares about next year, it's a bit frustrating. But that's my way of reconciling things. We might take a step back because they have development losses and no contigency plans. But they don't want contigencies from older vets on bad contracts. 

Fans forget. They aren't mutually exclusive ideas. 

[KL2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

As far as Tiger fans are concerned, I think the wild card question for our future is what kind of spender this Ilitch will be. Seems like most posters here believe Baby Doc will turn the team into the Pirates or Rockies, if we’re unlucky, or into the Rays, if we’re lucky. Meaning, whether we win or lose on the field, we still lose our Skubals at free agent time and, who knows, maybe our Greenes, too.

Personally, I do not accept at face value that’s what he’s is going to do. He may not throw money around practically indiscriminately the way Papa Doc did—which I don’t think would be a good thing, anyway—but he has has already shown that, if he’s been convinced we’re in a position to win, he will spend the money. Exhibit A: Javy Baez. The Pirates or Rockies or White Sox owners would never have done that, were they in our position at the time.

I agree with people who say they don’t think Harris would have come here if he knew we’d become the Rays and lose all our homegrown players at crunch time, so if we win at all, we’ll have to do so on a shoestring. Others might think he would take one of only 30 available job no matter where it is, but I think Harris was smart enough and career-focused enough to vet the situation well before accepting the job here.

Bottom line, I will choose to believe the Tigers will spend when it’s time, until they prove to me they won’t. It’s simply not time to push in all those chips just yet. Too many other holes he inherited that we still have to address. But I do think it will happen.

Also, let's be honest, this free agent class sucks. Soto and a bunch of a blah

[gehringer_2]

Two things: The outside asset level of an owner and the profitability of a team are two very different things. Owners don't spend their own money on players, they spend the team's.

which leads to the second point: the problem in baseball is not lack of a cap, it's lack of anything close to revenue parity. A cap is meaningless if a team still can't afford to spend to it. The cap works in the NFL because every franchise has at least that amount of income.

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, KL2 said:

Also, let's be honest, this free agent class sucks. Soto and a bunch of a blah

I'm not sure I completely agree. There are players remaining in this free agent class I think would be great fits for the Tigers, specifically, Christian Walker and Andrew Heaney. But I also think we might be into a good trade of prospect(s) for a major-league-ready cost-controlled player. Otherwise, I'm not sure what specifically you'd want to see that would be a perfect fit for the Tigers as they currently stand in their development and competitive cycles.

FWIW, I also think we have a non-zero chance to sign Sasaki, for reasons, although I certainly wouldn't count on that.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

As far as Tiger fans are concerned, I think the wild card question for our future is what kind of spender this Ilitch will be. Seems like most posters here believe Baby Doc will turn the team into the Pirates or Rockies, if we’re unlucky, or into the Rays, if we’re lucky. Meaning, whether we win or lose on the field, we still lose our Skubals at free agent time and, who knows, maybe our Greenes, too.

 

I don't think most posters believe that.  Some believe it's a possibility. 

[chasfh]

13 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't think most posters believe that.  Some believe it's a possibility. 

"Most" and "some" are not mutually exclusive.

That's just my read on what I am reading here.

[RatkoVarda]

I have no doubt Harris knows what he is doing. His moves have all been just fine to good to great.

But can he build a consistent playoff team without taking some risk?

At some point, I think you have to make a trade or a free agent signing that is not safe.

He spoke about calculated risk when he was hired and he is into his 3rd year and has done almost nothing risky.

The biggest risk he took was passing on Langford for Clark, and that may still work out fine.

[kdog]

7 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

I have no doubt Harris knows what he is doing. His moves have all been just fine to good to great.

But can he build a consistent playoff team without taking some risk?

At some point, I think you have to make a trade or a free agent signing that is not safe.

He spoke about calculated risk when he was hired and he is into his 3rd year and has done almost nothing risky.

The biggest risk he took was passing on Langford for Clark, and that may still work out fine.

Risk and real baseball trades..player development seems to be going fine. Where are the trades if you don't want to spend on long term deals?

[RatkoVarda]

FWIW, Arenado will waive NT clause for Dodgers, Padres, Angels, Phillies, Mets or Red Sox

[chasfh]

25 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

FWIW, Arenado will waive NT clause for Dodgers, Padres, Angels, Phillies, Mets or Red Sox

This is the exact thing I'm talking about. All those teams are either contenders now, or historically are at times, except one: the Angels.

So why would Nolan Arenado go to the Angels if they're not in any danger of winning anytime soon, instead of the Tigers, a team on the rise with a glaring need he can neatly fill? Simple: he was born and raised in Orange County, California. He and his family are from there, and they still live there.

Lifestyle.

[Sports_Freak]

Article in today's Free Press says Tork will have to earn a spot during spring training. I guess, now that the team is better, that spring stats really do matter. If he hits .150 with no power and a 30% strikeout rate, he'll be in Toledo.

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, Sports_Freak said:

Article in today's Free Press says Tork will have to earn a spot during spring training. I guess, now that the team is better, that spring stats really do matter. If he hits .150 with no power and a 30% strikeout rate, he'll be in Toledo.

Or Reno. 😏

[KL2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I'm not sure I completely agree. There are players remaining in this free agent class I think would be great fits for the Tigers, specifically, Christian Walker and Andrew Heaney. But I also think we might be into a good trade of prospect(s) for a major-league-ready cost-controlled player. Otherwise, I'm not sure what specifically you'd want to see that would be a perfect fit for the Tigers as they currently stand in their development and competitive cycles.

FWIW, I also think we have a non-zero chance to sign Sasaki, for reasons, although I certainly wouldn't count on that.

Fits does not make a great free agent class. 

Walker, a 2.6 WAR player last year and total of 15 over 10 years. Never an all-star. Heaney was an under 1 war player, who has been 8.6 war player over 11 years. 

My point was on illitch and spending. WHile these are decent 'fits' its silly to get mad on whether illitch spends or not based on these players. If Walker gets 200 million thats gonna be a terrible contract. I'd rather us not sign that deal just so Chris can prove he spends. It's a crap free agent class with little other than fill in guys. 

[4hzglory]

55 minutes ago, KL2 said:

Fits does not make a great free agent class. 

Walker, a 2.6 WAR player last year and total of 15 over 10 years. Never an all-star. Heaney was an under 1 war player, who has been 8.6 war player over 11 years. 

My point was on illitch and spending. WHile these are decent 'fits' its silly to get mad on whether illitch spends or not based on these players. If Walker gets 200 million thats gonna be a terrible contract. I'd rather us not sign that deal just so Chris can prove he spends. It's a crap free agent class with little other than fill in guys. 

And Walker costs us our Competitive Balance pick which is the 2nd competitive balance pick and I believe will be pick #31 based on what Edman said with the Mets, Yankees and Dodgers dropping 10 spots and the 2 picks for players winning awards.

Edited December 11, 2024 by 4hzglory

[gehringer_2]

actually the third point about baseball is guaranteed contracts. Asinine. Where else in the world do you get paid for not being able to do your job? You can get disability insurance on most jobs - usually pays a max of 55%! So there is a reform baseball desperately needs - a system of paying players for actual production and not a crapshoot on whether they will still be healthy or productive in 5 or 7 yrs. Maybe at lease an absolute inflation adjusted cap on how much and how long any team can pay any player in any year who out of baseball.

Edited December 11, 2024 by gehringer_2

[RatkoVarda]

Crochet to Red Sox for Teel + 3 more kids

[Tenacious D]

Just now, RatkoVarda said:

Crochet to Red Sox for Teel + 3 more kids

BoSox held on to Mayer