2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[Tiger337]

55 minutes ago, chasfh said:

You don't have to imagine it, because it's documented.

Yes, it's documented that the players didn't listen to him.  That's not a good look which is probably why the Tigers were able to get him so easiy.   

[Timmitch55]

7 hours ago, chasfh said:

If the Tigers move Skubal at a time when the franchise and the big club are ascending, they are telling the fan base that payroll and roster machinations are more important than winning games, and that is a potentially fatal way to shoot themselves in the foot. And that goes double for, as you suggest, they do it right now.

And exactly what is it The Tigers told us so far this winter? I know exactly what they told ME

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

That won't matter to some fans, though, maybe even most fans. Remember how Eduardo and his stupid agent pulled the rug out from under last year's deadline trade at literally the final hour, demanding the Dodgers add a year they refused to? It wasn't Harris's fault. There was nothing he could do about that. He couldn't make the Dodgers add the year to save his own hide or something. But Harris was assigned the blame as if he himself willed it to happen. It was nonsense. Yes, he had to take responsibility, but that's not exactly blame, is it? To say Harris made the trade fail by his hand is, in my opinion, asinine. But hey, that's the job.

It's not Rodriguez's job to make things easy for Harris.  He did what was best for himself.  Maybe Harris should have realized that Rodriguez was difficult to deal with and worked something out a lot earlier.  I don't know.  It sucks that they couldn't get a deal done, but it's weak to blame it all on the player and to Harris' credit he didn't do that.  He took responsibility for it.      

[Sports_Freak]

7 hours ago, chasfh said:

If the Tigers move Skubal at a time when the franchise and the big club are ascending, they are telling the fan base that payroll and roster machinations are more important than winning games, and that is a potentially fatal way to shoot themselves in the foot. And that goes double for, as you suggest, they do it right now.

Skubal can help them win a game every 5 days. Get a couple/few hitters and they can help for 162 games. The Tigers could be a better team by trading Skubal. But...it's not going to happen.

[1776]

Who says Harris isn’t working the market! 

The Tigers are in agreement with catcher Brian Serven on a minor league deal, reports Aram Leighton of Just Baseball (X link). Serven, a PRIME client, will be in big league camp as a non-roster invitee.

 

Serven, 29, joins the fourth organization of his career. A fifth-round pick of the Rockies in 2016, he got to the big leagues six years later. The Arizona State product appeared in 62 games as a rookie, hitting .203/.261/.332 in a backup role. He only made 11 appearances the following season, spending the bulk of the year in Triple-A on optional assignment. Colorado placed him on waivers last winter.

😉

 

 

[Motor City Sonics]

It's so annoyingly quiet.  

[Tenacious D]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

I don't agree. Skubal will be very affordable for the next 2 seasons. If they sign a couple of good FA pitchers, it will cost more. But Skubal is very valuable right now, less so as time passes. If we can get 3 or 4 quality players for him, do it. There's no way Boras will allow him to be extended when he could be looking at $30 to $35 million per year in a free agent contract. And no way the Tigers offer that kind of crazy money for his 30 starts per season. I love Skubal but, like you said, Harris wants to build a contending team for years and getting a few quality players for a pitcher who will be walking in a couple of years is the way to go.

The advantage we have is that we could extend him now and pay him $30M per season for his two remaining arb years—he wouldn’t get anything close to that going to arbitration.  And if he has another serious injury over the next two seasons, he may never get paid.  Just comes down to how much risk he wants to assume.

[Timmitch55]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Skubal can help them win a game every 5 days. Get a couple/few hitters and they can help for 162 games. The Tigers could be a better team by trading Skubal. But...it's not going to happen.

So....you believe we will sign him?

 

[Sports_Freak]

35 minutes ago, Timmitch55 said:

So....you believe we will sign him?

 

No. I just hate to wait until the trade deadline in '26, when he'll be a rental, to trade him. With 2 years of team control, his value will never be higher. The playoff run was great but this team still has holes to fill that we saw for most of the season. 3rd base, SS, 1st base and a catcher who can hit. As well as BP help (a closer who misses bats.) If trading Skubal can fill 2 of those spots, I wouldn't be against moving him. As I said, his value will never be higher.

[gehringer_2]

50 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

The advantage we have is that we could extend him now and pay him $30M per season for his two remaining arb years—he wouldn’t get anything close to that going to arbitration.  And if he has another serious injury over the next two seasons, he may never get paid.  Just comes down to how much risk he wants to assume.

True, The Tigers could offer him 7@35M starting this season, which has (at 3%/yr discount) an NPV of $218M. If he got 8 yrs at $35M two years from now the NPV is $230M. $12M is actually a pretty small insurance premium to pay against a pitching injury in 2 seasons.

Problem is, Boras doesn't look at it that way.

Edited December 17, 2024 by gehringer_2

[Sports_Freak]

46 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

The advantage we have is that we could extend him now and pay him $30M per season for his two remaining arb years—he wouldn’t get anything close to that going to arbitration.  And if he has another serious injury over the next two seasons, he may never get paid.  Just comes down to how much risk he wants to assume.

? Why would the team ever do that? Not only would that waste valuable resources (FA money) but it would also make Skubal less valuable on the trade market.

[Tenacious D]

7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

? Why would the team ever do that? Not only would that waste valuable resources (FA money) but it would also make Skubal less valuable on the trade market.

It would be part of a long term contract, like Gehringer more articulately conveyed.

[SoCalTiger]

Starting pitching has been VERY expensive this off season so far yet starters are pitching fewer and fewer innings. That doesn't make sense. Are we at the peak of Starters pay without the Industry realizing the cost will drop in the years ahead ? Didn't the 2024 Tiger chaos provide a glimpse into the future ? Spending 200 million plus for pitching seems really old school. I wouldn't do it. Pitchers break and Starters innings are decreasing. The future is 4 to 5 innings and bringing pitchers to the show quickly and turning them over is it not ?  If mid market teams are going to compete for players in free agency they need to budget their limited funds to position players and develop pitchers. 

 

 

[Tiger337]

8 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

Didn't the 2024 Tiger chaos provide a glimpse into the future ? Spending 200 million plus for pitching seems really old school. I wouldn't do it. Pitchers break and Starters innings are decreasing. The future is 4 to 5 innings and bringing pitchers to the show quickly and turning them over is it not ?  If mid market teams are going to compete for players in free agency they need to budget their limited funds to position players and develop pitchers. 

I don't think there are enough major league quality pitchers for all teams to do what the Tigers did for the last two months, but it's definitely trending towards starters pitching fewer innings.  I think that makes aces MORE valuable as they become more rare.  However, I think you may be right that mid-rotation guys seems are getting over priced.  

 

 

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

I don't agree. Skubal will be very affordable for the next 2 seasons. If they sign a couple of good FA pitchers, it will cost more. But Skubal is very valuable right now, less so as time passes. If we can get 3 or 4 quality players for him, do it. There's no way Boras will allow him to be extended when he could be looking at $30 to $35 million per year in a free agent contract. And no way the Tigers offer that kind of crazy money for his 30 starts per season. I love Skubal but, like you said, Harris wants to build a contending team for years and getting a few quality players for a pitcher who will be walking in a couple of years is the way to go.

I don’t know whether eight months of Skubal could unearth “three or four quality players”, by which I assume you mean substantially WAR-positive—that sounds like a tall order, even for someone of his caliber—but I simply have my doubts that Scott Harris would put a clear and present playoff picture in jeopardy in exchange for uncertain future prospects which itself might not guarantee playoffs. Teams well in the player picture simply don’t sell, and we sold last year only because we were practically out of the playoff picture.

This is especially true because not only would Harris doing so send the fans the wrong message about whether we want to win now—something they’ve been waiting for for a decade—but it would also damage his standing with the current players on the team, especially anyone else we might want to consider signing to a long deal, like Riley. If we were to start trading top players away and costing ourselves playoff appearances with it, why would he sign with us long term?

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, Timmitch55 said:

Do you think we will sign him?

I’m not sure we will sign him, but I am certain as can be that if we are firmly within the playoff picture, we won’t trade him.

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Yes, it's documented that the players didn't listen to him.

Because his bosses went around him directly to the players. If you ever managed people, you would understand what that means.

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Skubal can help them win a game every 5 days. Get a couple/few hitters and they can help for 162 games. The Tigers could be a better team by trading Skubal. But...it's not going to happen.

Yes, I’m afraid you will have to watch Skubal pitch for the Tigers for another year. Try not to rue what could have been this winter while you do so. 😉

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by chasfh

[oblong]

The thing to consider with a trade is all the reasons you list for the Tigers having to resort ot trading him are also true for most other teams.  Why would they give up more than a few quality players/prospects for that "problem"?

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, oblong said:

The thing to consider with a trade is all the reasons you list for the Tigers having to resort ot trading him are also true for most other teams.  Why would they give up more than a few quality players/prospects for that "problem"?

the level of duress teams are under does vary. If a team is in a position where they know their window is closing the relatively value of those two years maybe a lot higher than for a team that has confidence it still has a lot of pieces in its system to keep adding. As long as owners are rich guys with opinions there is always a  possibility one wants what you have enough to make it worth your while. No guarantee, but you should always keep the antenna up.

[Tiger337]

33 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Because his bosses went around him directly to the players. If you ever managed people, you would understand what that means.

I am assume you have never managed professional baseball players, so maybe your opinion is just as invalid as you say mine is.  

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

The thing to consider with a trade is all the reasons you list for the Tigers having to resort ot trading him are also true for most other teams.  Why would they give up more than a few quality players/prospects for that "problem"?

I think some contending teams are willing to assume that risk if they think they have an immediate window.  Skubal is arguably the best SP in MLB right now and could change or ensure a team’s fortune.

[RatkoVarda]

15 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

It's so annoyingly quiet.  

Because of Scott Harris' inaction, we have been painfully forced to rehash: ERod non-trade; non-serious offers to FA Correa; Astros cheating; Skubal trade; and Baez signing.

It may be harsh, but I would fire him for this.

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I don’t know whether eight months of Skubal could unearth “three or four quality players”, by which I assume you mean substantially WAR-positive—that sounds like a tall order, even for someone of his caliber—but I simply have my doubts that Scott Harris would put a clear and present playoff picture in jeopardy in exchange for uncertain future prospects which itself might not guarantee playoffs. Teams well in the player picture simply don’t sell, and we sold last year only because we were practically out of the playoff picture.

This is especially true because not only would Harris doing so send the fans the wrong message about whether we want to win now—something they’ve been waiting for for a decade—but it would also damage his standing with the current players on the team, especially anyone else we might want to consider signing to a long deal, like Riley. If we were to start trading top players away and costing ourselves playoff appearances with it, why would he sign with us long term?

He traded away players last trade deadline and the Tigers went on a roll and made the playoffs. Sending a message to the players by making trades is over-rated, the message should be he's trying to win every game by trading a pitcher who only plays once every 5 days. This talk is pointless anyway, Skubal isn't going anywhere, at least until the trade deadline in '26.

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Yes, I’m afraid you will have to watch Skubal pitch for the Tigers for another year. Try not to rue what could have been this winter while you do so. 😉

 

As I said, I love Skubal's game. He's a bulldog. A very valuable player. When he's on the mound, it almost guarantees a victory. It will be great watching him for however long he's here