2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

Fangraphs has 2025 projections out and Dingler and Navigato are projected to be the 3rd and 8th most productive position players by WAR. That's .... interesting.

I am not seeing that on any of the FanGraphs projections.  What am I missing?  

[Hongbit]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

Rumor mill in Bham is that Chris Ilitch is getting a divorce.  Let’s hope he has to sell the team—Mat Ishbia would be a great owner (if he doesn’t buy the Twins first)

The Ilitch family owns the Tigers.  Chris runs it for the family trust.   A divorce shouldn’t impact the majority ownership of the teams.  

[Motor City Sonics]

Navigato is certainly someone to keep an eye on.  He had a very solid season in the minors last year.   Might not translate to the majors but it seems more and more that minor league stats aren't always a harbinger of things to come.  

 

Aaron Judge's minor league stats would not indicate the kind of career he's having.     Not saying that for Navigato, but the fact that they don't seem to be pursing options outside of Baez/Sweeney might mean that the Navigato option is there.   It would be absolutely shocking if he's healthy this season that he doesn't get a call up at some point.   I mean, I just don't believe in Ryan Kreidler anymore.  I'd rather see them take a look at someone new.     Andy had 21 HR and an OBP of .363 with  an ops of .863 at Toledo.  That's a very solid season.  

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

Fangraphs has 2025 projections out and Dingler and Navigato are projected to be the 3rd and 8th most productive position players by WAR. That's .... interesting.

Dingler hitting MLB pitching is a story yet to be told, but I'm willing to listen..

🤔

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

The Ilitch family owns the Tigers.  Chris runs it for the family trust.   A divorce shouldn’t impact the majority ownership of the teams.  

yup -  the Trust owns the Tigers, the Ilitch family are beneficiaries of the trust and Chris is the managing trustee. Who knows what the details beyond those simple ones might be?

Could be some issues/realignments when Marion passes, same might be true for the lions FTM

Edited December 21, 2024 by gehringer_2

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

The Ilitch family owns the Tigers.  Chris runs it for the family trust.   A divorce shouldn’t impact the majority ownership of the teams.  

Thanks, killer of dreams 

[chasfh]

On 12/19/2024 at 6:13 PM, Tiger337 said:

This is interesting and sounds like something Harris/Hinch would consider:

CAA, the agency representing right-hander Michael Lorenzen, has been marketing him as a two-way player in conversations with teams this winter.

The idea isn’t necessarily for Lorenzen to see much time at the plate, it’s to potentially circumvent the limit of 13 pitchers that each MLB team is allowed to carry on their roster. If Lorenzen appears in 20 games in the outfield or as a designated hitter (and gets at least three plate appearances in each), he would gain two-way status for the 2025 season and the following year, giving the team that signs him extra roster flexibility. It’s a small wrinkle, sure, but one that could be intriguing to teams that are interested in the additional roster maneuverability.

1h ago

Source: Ken Rosenthal

I saw Lorenzen pitch and play center when he visited with the Reds a few years ago. I was totally in the moment on it and thought it was really cool.

[chasfh]

On 12/19/2024 at 7:41 PM, alex said:

I do agree with the three years, but IMHO it would seem so would most teams pursuing him. How much might you max out at for 3 years? 60, 65, 70M total? Maybe even start the salary higher for 2 years and then a bit lower for the third?

IF he has a good market, and I would think he does, he will no doubt be able to choose his location. Heck, it may even take a 4th yr if the bidding is strong and that to me is a bit too much.

 

Speaking as a fan, I don’t care about the money. That’s someone else’s problem. I care only about the years. I don’t want to commit too many years to someone on the precipice of a decline phase.

I understand that albatross contracts can hamper a team’s ability to make moves in the future, but in a case like this, where a guy is on the final contract of his career anyway, I’d be more concerned if the AAV difference is $15MM versus $35MM than I would if the difference is #15MM vs $20MM.

In any event, Walker is gone now, so, so much for this case.

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Rumor mill in Bham is that Chris Ilitch is getting a divorce.  Let’s hope he has to sell the team—Mat Ishbia would be a great owner (if he doesn’t buy the Twins first)

I would have been all over this idea maybe four years ago, but not so much now. Baby Doc has been a great owner since Scott Harris came on board, at least when it comes to the baseball product*. He has shown he will spend when he has been convinced the time is right, and he has spent millions to fix the infrastructure and personnel issues of player scouting and development.

Plus, we don’t get to choose who the next owner would be. For all we know, if Ilitch Enterprises does divest, we will end up with the next John Fisher or Bruce Sherman or Bob Nutting, and then we’d be stuck with that terribleness for the rest of my life at least, and probably yours.

I want Baby Doc to prove for sure that he won’t invest in the team even when the Max Clark class of prospects matures and makes the majors, and we’re a big player or pitcher away from becoming perennial pennant contenders; or else he proves he will dump top players like Skubal or Riley early to avoid their walk years just to save money and churn prospects; or else he liquidates top prospects for rentals of middling or over-the-hill free agents in misguided attempts to win. Then I will root for a sale.

 

 

* - They do maintain a relatively ****ty fan experience at the stadium—I mean, no outside bags? No food? No water? What is this, a Red Wings game?

Edited December 21, 2024 by chasfh

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I am not seeing that on any of the FanGraphs projections.  What am I missing?  

He’s referring to Szymborski’s ZIPs, not the Steamer.

Edited December 21, 2024 by chasfh

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Ilitch Enterprises does divest,

Unless is was a very sloppily constructed trust, a divorce should have no effect. Divorce is exactly the kind of contingency that is easily anticipated when you execute a trust. The wife may be a beneficiary independent of her spousal status, she may not be, but doubtful that has any effect at all on Chris' trusteeship.

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I would have been all over this idea maybe four years ago, but not so much now. Baby Doc has been a great owner since Scott Harris came on board, at least when it comes to the baseball product*. He has shown he will spend when he has been convinced the time is right, and he has spent millions to fix the infrastructure and personnel issues of player scouting and development.

Plus, we don’t get to choose who the next owner would be. For all we know, if Ilitch Enterprises does divest, we will end up with the next John Fisher or Bruce Sherman or Bob Nutting, and then we’d be stuck with that terribleness for the rest of my life at least, and probably yours.

I want Baby Doc to prove for sure that he won’t invest in the team even when the Max Clark class of prospects matures and makes the majors, and we’re a big player or pitcher away from becoming perennial pennant contenders; or else he proves he will dump top players like Skubal or Riley early to avoid their walk years just to save money and churn prospects; or else he liquidates top prospects for rentals of middling or over-the-hill free agents in misguided attempts to win. Then I will root for a sale.

 

 

* - They do maintain a relatively ****ty fan experience at the stadium—I mean, no outside bags? No food? No water? What is this, a Red Wings game?

These are good and valid points.  And I’m not suggesting that Ilitch has been cheap at all, because I think that’s false.  However, I do think he takes a measured, businesslike approach, unlike his Dad who led with his emotions and was as much of a fan of the team as the owner.  And his actions reflected that.  Ishbia strikes me the same way—local billionaire that would throw money at a problem, salary tax be damned.  And now he is in the mix for the Twins.  One advantage we always had over them was payroll.

[Hongbit]

18 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Unless is was a very sloppily constructed trust, a divorce should have no effect. Divorce is exactly the kind of contingency that is easily anticipated when you execute a trust. The wife may be a beneficiary independent of her spousal status, she may not be, but doubtful that has any effect at all on Chris' trusteeship.

As you brought up earlier, the passing of Marian will be when we’ll find out the family’s future interest in continued ownership.   They will get some large offers.  

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

He’s referring to Szymborski’s ZIPs, not the Steamer.

Thank you.  

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

As you brought up earlier, the passing of Marian will be when we’ll find out the family’s future interest in continued ownership.   They will get some large offers.  

maybe it's out there somewhere, though I've never seen it, what I wonder is how the voting control of the trust is set-up. AFAIK, we have no idea which family members have how much voting control and as noted - what happens to Marion's piece, whatever it is.

You may have seen that Murdoch has been in court trying to revise the terms of his trust to give Lachan more control because he knows when he's gone there is a good chance the other three siblings vote Lachan out of his current controlling position under Rupert. Rupert has so far had no luck, the court has told him 'irrevocable' mean 'irrevocable'. You simply can't change your mind once the trust is established unless the trustees all agree, and Lachan's siblings will not. If Rupert wants Lachan in control he will have to make the other three offers sweet enough to buy them out, which might leave his empire disastrously in debt. Don't you just bleed for the problems of the oligarchy?

My guess is that Mike set it up so the other siblings can not get enough control to threaten Chris' continued custody of the team, but that's just my guess based on the fact that Mike clearly wanted the team to stay put as an enduring legacy.

Edited December 21, 2024 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Unl

You are replying to the wrong guy. I was not commenting on the divorce statement, or even speculating whether Ilitch will sell. I was simply responding to the idea that a sale and a new owner will de facto be a much better situation, and even that it will be a specific guy. It’s within the realm of possibility that both those condition would come to pass, but I don’t take on faith either of those ideas being certain.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

These are good and valid points.  And I’m not suggesting that Ilitch has been cheap at all, because I think that’s false.  However, I do think he takes a measured, businesslike approach, unlike his Dad who led with his emotions and was as much of a fan of the team as the owner.  And his actions reflected that.  Ishbia strikes me the same way—local billionaire that would throw money at a problem, salary tax be damned.  And now he is in the mix for the Twins.  One advantage we always had over them was payroll.

Totally agree you didn’t imply he was cheap.

Speaking only for myself, I don’t want another owner who spends with his heart and would throw his money (and bunches of years!) at the likes of Pete Alonso and Nick Pivetta—decent players, but overrated for what someone else will eventually pay them.

 

[gehringer_2]

38 minutes ago, chasfh said:

You are replying to the wrong guy. I was not commenting on the divorce statement, or even speculating whether Ilitch will sell. I was simply responding to the idea that a sale and a new owner will de facto be a much better situation, and even that it will be a specific guy. It’s within the realm of possibility that both those condition would come to pass, but I don’t take on faith either of those ideas being certain.

So this SW doesn't do sub threading, so sometimes  if I don't quote a post in a reply to the topic generally, but then someone injects a post in between which make a left turn the logic ends up not following at all, so more often I just quote the last post in the line to indicate an append to the topic at hand.  So sue me..... 

Edited December 21, 2024 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

Cross Goldschmidt off the list of available first basemen.  He signed with the Yankees.  Didn't want him anyway.  

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Cross Goldschmidt off the list of available first basemen.  He signed with the Yankees.  Didn't want him anyway.  

good.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

Cross Goldschmidt off the list of available first basemen.  He signed with the Yankees.  Didn't want him anyway.  

Wasn’t on my list either.

[chasfh]

4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

So this SW doesn't do sub threading, so sometimes  if I don't quote a post in a reply to the topic generally, but then someone injects a post in between which make a left turn the logic ends up not following at all, so more often I just quote the last post in the line to indicate an append to the topic at hand.  So sue me..... 

Thanks for the offer. I’ll let the legal firm of Howard, Fine & Howard do the talking for me.

[Tenacious D]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

Wasn’t on my list either.

He was on mine.  Checked every box.  Let’s go get Santana now.

[Motor City Sonics]

25 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

He was on mine.  Checked every box.  Let’s go get Santana now.

No, no, let's not.   Let's have a party instead.     Then we go get Santana. 

 

[papalawrence]

Santana to Cleveland