2024 - 2025 Detroit Tigers Offseason

[gehringer_2]

23 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

3B. Jung’s approach is really nice, but no HR and poor D.

I know Keith tweaked the arm again this season but given that it came back pretty quickly I still wonder if they don't have to try him back at 3rd next season. His fielding grades are confusing, Statcast has him as plus, BR rates him badly. By the eye test the hands and arm are fine but he does appear to  be just too big to cover the kind of ground a quicker player could. IMHO, all that argues maybe 3rd is the more natural position for him. I guess we'll see.

Edited October 13 by gehringer_2

[monkeytargets39]

It’s a lot easier to do what we did down the stretch with a 28 man roster instead of a 26 man one.

My hot takes for where to go from here:

0.) Gonna assume that the price tags are gonna be unnecessarily astronomical for guys like Alonso, Adames, Burnes, and that they’ll all go to big market teams.  That’s ok because there are other options.

1.) Gotta upgrade 1B.  Hate to say that for Torkelson, but he got dominated in the post season.  If he will do it, have him start the season in Toledo and make him mash his way into the roster.  Otherwise, let’s find a trade partner.  Sign Christian Walker to be the every day 1B.

2.) Run it back with the Keith/Ibanez platoon at 2B, but let Keith get plenty of cuts against LHPs.

3.) Cut Baez.  He doesn’t fit the mold of the team.  No reason to waste ABs and time trying to find out if he’s gonna improve after surgery.  Sign Kevin Newman and platoon him with McKinstry—Sweeney starts in Toledo until he either mashes his way up or McKinstry flops again.  We know Hinch is gonna want McKinstry on the roster.

4.) Vierling the every day 3B.  Jung starts in Toledo for regular ABs.  

5.) 5 man outfield of Greene, Meadows, Perez, Carpenter, JHM.

6.) I’m fine with Rogers/Dingler as the catchers.  Maybe sign Reese McGuire to a minor league deal as a lefty hitting catcher to have a future platoon if one of the two are injured.

*13 man positional roster:  Rogers, Dingler, Walker, Keith, Ibanez, McKinstry, Newman, Vierling, Greene, Meadows, Perez, Carpenter, Malloy.

 

7.) Gonna have to go get a starter.  Personally, I think I saw enough from Montero and Hurter to be ok with them in the 4/5 rotation spots and we start Jobe in Toledo with a quick hook for Hurter.  Need to get a legit #2.  I’d do whatever we can to bring back Jack Flaherty.  
 

8.) Mize needs to convert to the bullpen and throw his fastball harder and develop an out pitch that way.  Maeda can stay and work out his contract as the mop up guy/emergency starter.  Asking them to cut Baez and Maeda probably won’t fly, so I’d rather cut Baez.  If Maeda flounders again, it’ll be pretty easy to drop him by the deadline since he’s an expiring contract.

 

9.) Vest, Brieske, Holton are obviously mainstays, but we need to get them help so they aren’t over exposed again.  Honestly, if Foley wasn’t considered a good matchup vs Cleveland, then trade him.  Maybe target Jose LeClerc, Tommy Kahnle and Danny Coulombe.  If you can get two of those three and then have Hanifee as a multi inning reliever, that gives us flexibility.

13 man pitching staff:  Skubal, Flaherty, Olson, Montero, Hurter, Mize, Maeda, Vest, Brieske, Holton, Hanifee, LeClerc, Coulombe.

Tigers spend on 1B, SP and a couple RPs.  Eat Baez’s contract.  SS is still a concern here but you upgrade most of the other weaknesses in the club.  Keep most of the youth while also setting up situations where the other young guys not on the ML roster aren’t completely blocked from coming up if they perform well enough.

[casimir]

14 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I know Keith tweaked the arm again this season but given that it came back pretty quickly I still wonder if they don't have to try him back at 3rd next season. His fielding grades are confusing, Statcast has him as plus, BR rates him badly. By the eye test the hands and arm are fine but he does appear to  be just too big to cover the kind of ground a quicker player could. IMHO, all that argues maybe 3rd is the more natural position for him. I guess we'll see.

I'm also curious about trying Keith at 3B again.  I understand him at 2B this season given the throwing concerns.  But I agree with you about the range, in particular with Torkelson next door.  I question Jung's arm and reflexes at 3B, but I'm wholly unqualified there.  I just wonder if we see a return to previous position swap this offseason, Keith to 3B and Jung to 2B.

But then I also wonder about bringing in another corner IF to try to upgrade 3B and hedge Torkelson at 1B next season.  If Torkelson just doesn't have it, there's depth there to move Keith back to 3B, shuffle the new dude to 1B.  If things work out, Keith remains at 2B for next season, the new dude handles 3B, and Torkelson revives his career at 1B.

[chasfh]

So ... now can we fire Hinch and the hitting coaches?

[monkeytargets39]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

I'm also curious about trying Keith at 3B again.  I understand him at 2B this season given the throwing concerns.  But I agree with you about the range, in particular with Torkelson next door.  I question Jung's arm and reflexes at 3B, but I'm wholly unqualified there.  I just wonder if we see a return to previous position swap this offseason, Keith to 3B and Jung to 2B.

But then I also wonder about bringing in another corner IF to try to upgrade 3B and hedge Torkelson at 1B next season.  If Torkelson just doesn't have it, there's depth there to move Keith back to 3B, shuffle the new dude to 1B.  If things work out, Keith remains at 2B for next season, the new dude handles 3B, and Torkelson revives his career at 1B.

The thing about a new full time 3B is…do you really want to cram Vierling into an already crowded outfield?  I think we all agree that Greene and Meadows will play most days out there next year regardless of matchups—then you’d have to revolve RF/DH between Vierling, Carpenter, Perez and Malloy.  Or have Malloy in Toledo which hurts the Platoon option vs LHP a lot.  
 

If we move Keith, I’d rather move him to first and play Jung at 2B with Ibanez so Vierling can be in the lineup at 3B.  Or keep it the same and move on from Torkelson and just go get a 1B option.

Edited October 13 by monkeytargets39

[Shinzaki]

Take a run at trading for Brent Rooker from Vegas/Oakland...he'd give you that RH power bat this team sorely lacks and the A's are always on the hunt for prospects.  Jung, Hamm and Lee?  Vierling plays 3rd.  I think Sweeney is our boy at SS.  We have the $$ to go after Alonso..would love to see that.  But a cheaper alternative would be OK.  With the young talent we have on hand and in the pipeline...I think we look like a much more attractive FA destination than we did last year

[Sports_Freak]

People on Twitter forming opinions on Tigers batting averages over a 7 game playoff stretch don't understand why small sample sizes aren't reliable. Yes, they were playoff games but any list showing Tork is better than Riley is obviously flawed. (Rant over)

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

People on Twitter forming opinions on Tigers batting averages over a 7 game playoff stretch don't understand why small sample sizes aren't reliable. Yes, they were playoff games but any list showing Tork is better than Riley is obviously flawed. (Rant over)

Torkelson was 348 OBP/781 OPS after his return and played solid D, improving his Rdrs from -10 last season to +3 this season.  I don't think the Tigers are as down on him as many fans who only see his season stats that include his terrible early trouble.

Edited October 13 by gehringer_2

[Sports_Freak]

On 7/31/2024 at 7:52 PM, gehringer_2 said:

Realistic odds of any A ball player making the majors? He's too far away for him factor into team roster decisions. Assemble your team based on your A ball players and I guarantee we'll still be waiting for a winner in 2045.

Jackson Jobe says Hi There...😆😆

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Jackson Jobe says Hi There...😆😆

Now to be fair, he was a AAA player when they called him up!

[Sports_Freak]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

Torkelson was 340 OBP/781 OPS after his return and played solid D, improving his Rdrs from -10 last season to +3 this season.  I don't think the Tigers are as down on him as many fans who only see his season stats that include his terrible early trouble.

We need a power hitting RH bat. I don't care what some random stats say, he didn't provide the power or run production we need. And any stats that show him better than Riley Greene is a flawed stat...like a small sample size.

[Sports_Freak]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

Now to be fair, he was a AAA player when they called him up!

But didn't he start the season in A ball? Every thing I read said we wouldn't see him in Detroit until 2025 at the earliest.

[monkeytargets39]

20 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Torkelson was 348 OBP/781 OPS after his return and played solid D, improving his Rdrs from -10 last season to +3 this season.  I don't think the Tigers are as down on him as many fans who only see his season stats that include his terrible early trouble.

Looking less at overall stats and more at things like the number of times he’s down 0-2 in the count or fails to advance runners/hit situationally is what has consistently stood out to me his whole career.  Its just really hard to have any confidence in him and it feels like any production we get out of him is a bonus or a surprise…..which is fine if he was a defense first catcher or shortstop….but not a first baseman.

[casimir]

42 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

The thing about a new full time 3B is…do you really want to cram Vierling into an already crowded outfield?  I think we all agree that Greene and Meadows will play most days out there next year regardless of matchups—then you’d have to revolve RF/DH between Vierling, Carpenter, Perez and Malloy.  Or have Malloy in Toledo which hurts the Platoon option vs LHP a lot.  
 

If we move Keith, I’d rather move him to first and play Jung at 2B with Ibanez so Vierling can be in the lineup at 3B.  Or keep it the same and move on from Torkelson and just go get a 1B option.

I’ll agree with you that Greene and Meadows are likely everyday players.  Greene might see some of those starts at DH.  Meadows’ glove doesn’t platoon.

I think I’m general, that DH spot goes to an OF more often that not.  That’s Greene, Carpenter, and Malloy.   I don’t think Vierling or Perez garner any DH time to include them in this group.  Keith and Torkelson might get the occasional DH game, but again, not enough to include in this point.

So, yeah, that means maybe one too many of Greene, Meadows, Carpenter, Vierling, Malloy, Perez on the roster if a 3B is acquired.

Malloy hasn’t really played much MLB OF.  His bat was needed this season, and that’s his calling card now.  But if he doesn’t improve defensively and the Tigers acquire a two way player, that might push one of he/Perez to Toledo.  That wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world as that would be everyday playing time in Toledo and that’s a good depth piece as well.

The other aspect is that someone of the bunch could be traded for returning talent. So that would alleviate some of the OF jumble.

[SeattleMike]

37 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Torkelson was 348 OBP/781 OPS after his return and played solid D, improving his Rdrs from -10 last season to +3 this season.  I don't think the Tigers are as down on him as many fans who only see his season stats that include his terrible early trouble.

Torkelson had a 125 OPS+ after his return so I'm thinking the Tigers are in no hurry to move on from him, especially because his defense also improved. 

[gehringer_2]

41 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

But didn't he start the season in A ball? Every thing I read said we wouldn't see him in Detroit until 2025 at the earliest.

9IP at WM, a very quick promotion to AA Erie where spent most of the season. He threw 73.2 there plus his DL stint, then promotion to AAA for a mere 9 IP,  before being called to Det where he got into 2 games for a total of 4IP.

[gehringer_2]

27 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

he’s down 0-2 in the count

Agree that has definitely been his his issue and I imagine that he was sent to Toledo with the mandate to learn to take fewer strikes. I would have liked to see Torkelson go to winter ball.

[monkeytargets39]

23 minutes ago, casimir said:

I’ll agree with you that Greene and Meadows are likely everyday players.  Greene might see some of those starts at DH.  Meadows’ glove doesn’t platoon.

I think I’m general, that DH spot goes to an OF more often that not.  That’s Greene, Carpenter, and Malloy.   I don’t think Vierling or Perez garner any DH time to include them in this group.  Keith and Torkelson might get the occasional DH game, but again, not enough to include in this point.

So, yeah, that means maybe one too many of Greene, Meadows, Carpenter, Vierling, Malloy, Perez on the roster if a 3B is acquired.

Malloy hasn’t really played much MLB OF.  His bat was needed this season, and that’s his calling card now.  But if he doesn’t improve defensively and the Tigers acquire a two way player, that might push one of he/Perez to Toledo.  That wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world as that would be everyday playing time in Toledo and that’s a good depth piece as well.

The other aspect is that someone of the bunch could be traded for returning talent. So that would alleviate some of the OF jumble.

Yeah I was just getting at the idea that there would be corresponding decisions to be made on current guys if we picked up an every day 3B.

I don’t see the organization bailing out on Perez or Vierling based on their performance this past year and their versatility (Perez as a SH and Vierling defensively).  JHM had a .900+ OPS vs RHPs, so I don’t know that we just push that down to Toledo either without adding two or more strong RH bats to put in the lineup.  
 

The lineup has a lot of unique flexibility as it is now, but I sort of feel like it’s a house of cards where if you remove or switch out much of the roster, it could have a lot of consequences for how Hinch has come to manage them.  The exception would be if we go get some big name, big price tag guys to fill the question mark spots—but I don’t see us going in that direction.  There’s good reason to see if we can run it back for next year based on how long the sustained success was.

[monkeytargets39]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

Agree that has definitely been his his issue and I imagine that he was sent to Toledo with the mandate to learn to take fewer strikes. I would have liked to see Torkelson go to winter ball.

And it’s one thing if he’s down 0-2 because he’s putting some good swings on foul balls or the pitcher dots the corner…….but it’s usually because his timing is off for weak contact fouls or he’s just watching a hittable pitch blow right by him.

[gehringer_2]

31 minutes ago, casimir said:

Malloy hasn’t really played much MLB OF.

that will be their dilemma with Malloy. If his bat starts becoming valuable for him to stick, which it showed some signs of doing, then he's pretty much going to monopolize up the DH spot, which I think the Tigers were hoping to avoid, though a team can have a lot worse problems than that.

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

that will be their dilemma with Malloy. If his bat starts becoming valuable for him to stick, which it showed some signs of doing, then he's pretty much going to monopolize up the DH spot, which I think the Tigers were hoping to avoid, though a team can have a lot worse problems than that.

The way Hinch likes to platoon and pinch hit frequently, Malloy could actually have a role batting mostly against left-handers and not playing in the field much.  He would have to hit LHP like Carpenter hits RHP though.    

[SoCalTiger]

It's a bit too soon to wrap my head around what I think the Tigers should do not that any of my ideas are necessarily good ones and certainly the Tigers are not waiting for them 😀. I will say I trust Harris and I don't think Junior is a total cheapskate though not a spender. I do think both Tork and Baez(if healthy) will be back though at least for the start of the season. 

[RandyMarsh]

Right now I see Greene, Meadows, Keith and Carp as your potential core players. The rest of the lineup should be open to upgrades if there are any potential ones out there.  Don't pass on proven players for guys like Sweeney, Jung, Vierling and Tork.

If those guys end up improving/bouncing back great you can always find at bats for them but I'd like to get either more proven players or better players then depending on them next year. 

[Nate7474]

Something like this is what I would look at...

Offense-

- Try and sign Bregman 3 years with an option for a 4th to play 3rd Base.

- Vierling Plays Right Field and backups CF.

- Carpenter hasn't stayed healthy and hes poor in the field so he goes to DH for the majority of his at bats short of when we need to rest other players and against lefties.

- Jung is trade bait potentially or told to pick up a 1st baseman glove and be the sub for the corner infield.

- Sweeney to start at SS, you either platoon Baez or cut him.  If hes on the roster then there isn't a spot for McKinstry.

- Rogers and Dingler to share Catching duty.  Sign a vet for Toledo.

 

Pitching-

- Sign a number 2- Would love Flaherty but doubt it.  Maybe Bieber on a 2 year deal?

- Sign another late innings bullpen arm

- Cut Maeda

- Bring in a coupe vet arms for Toledo

- Jobe starts in Detroits with the plan he is there all year.

[Hart]

I don't know if teams are going to be scared off by Ha-Seong Kim's injury but he seems like the perfect signing to me.  Right handed bat with positional flexibility at 3 positions that may or may not be needs for us.  Also, solid obp. 

I would love Walker at first base but I just can't see investing a large sum of money with the jury still out on Torkelson.  Give him one more full season of at bats at least before you look elsewhere at that position.