1776 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Lat strain. They IL'd him on the 19th. As of this morning his status is listed as Active. Maybe he’ll get a call up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 24 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Guys care about their careers, but that still has to fight uphill against team management creating/adding to a depressing situation to come to work in - it becomes a drag on everyone's mental state. You know the old line about the highest performing org are those where everyone is rowing in the same direction, etc. Players want to win, they don't care about team 5 yr plans. OTOH - it's probably great for getting performance from guys who can't play under pressure when/if they ever get to more competitive situations..... So you’re declaring that the Detroit Tigers are a depressing work environment? Come on. This is where A.J. comes in. It is his primary directive to keep these guys motivated and playing hard. I know most people here think his Stanford psychology degree doesn’t mean ****-all and that he was just doing nothing but jacking off there for four years. I strongly disagree with that idea. I think he knows what he’s doing, and I know practically no one here agrees with me, but I think he’s good at it, and that players are doing better under him than they would if we brought Ron Gardenhire back out of retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 (edited) 11 minutes ago, chasfh said: So you’re declaring that the Detroit Tigers are a depressing work environment If you've played team sports you have to know what a downer it is to lose good players, it's bad enough when it's injury, worse when the team does it by choice. You don't think the guys on the field feel the difference bettween going out there behind Jack Flaherty and Beau Brieske? I'll take my turn to say 'C'mon' Hopefully there will be some lift when Tork, Green and Meadow come back - Tork for all his performance issues does seem to be at team leader along with Green. Edited August 2 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: If you've If you are basically saying the players say **** everything because they lost Jack Flaherty and don't have Tork on their team, then we don't agree about much when it comes to this topic, so we'll have to just part as friends on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Cat Gentleman Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 (edited) 11 hours ago, chasfh said: How is he with Benetti? I really like Dirks with Dan Dickerson. He’s mostly business with a touch of party, and I think he knows how to loosen Dan up, unlike Bobby Scales who, while I like him all right, seems like he’s working hard when he’s on the air. I also don't know how he is on TV, but I will say that I don't care for him as much on the radio when Greg Gania is sitting in for Dan. his business/party needle definitely seemed to swing toward 'party' the one time I heard that combo. ETA: I don't mean to imply that Andy is 100% responsible for the atmosphere when Gania is there. Gania seems to bring at least as much of that as Dirks does. Edited August 2 by Crazy Cat Gentleman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 9 hours ago, chasfh said: If you are basically saying the players say **** everything because they lost Jack Flaherty and don't have Tork on their team, then we don't agree about much when it comes to this topic, so we'll have to just part as friends on this. well, we'll see how they play. They tanked in '17 after the sell off. but I won't deny sometimes a team can go into "us against them mode." They're in a tailspin right now they need to get out of and Ragans isn't helping the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 (edited) 12 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: well, we'll see how they play. They tanked in '17 after the sell off. but I won't deny sometimes a team can go into "us against them mode." They're in a tailspin right now they need to get out of and Ragans isn't helping the cause. I simply can’t envision major league players—especially marginal major leaguers who have left everything on the field for years as kids and young adults to become a Major League Baseball player, someone who is a 1-for-26 streak, or four straight bad outings on the mound, from literally seeing their careers end—just saying **** it all and start ****ing around on the field like they don’t care just because of a few deadline trades by the team they’re on that already wasn’t going to make the playoffs before anyway. These aren’t 9-to-5 office jobs you can Dilbert your way out of because there’s always a dozen other jobs around the corner you can get when they ****can you. This is the top of one of the most prestigious and rarely-attained professions in the world. And that’s what I mean by “come on”. I also can’t envision an established player with money and future years discarding all vestiges of his professionalism by ****ing around on the field like he doesn’t care anymore, because that would result in a huge reputational hit among other organizations he might hope to continue his career with, as well as with his peers whose respect he values more than just about anything else. That also does not pass any reasonable smell test. When I hear ideas such as that being expressed, it sounds to me like nothing more than a frustrated fan just whinging. Edited August 3 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 13 hours ago, Crazy Cat Gentleman said: I also don't know how he is on TV, but I will say that I don't care for him as much on the radio when Greg Gania is sitting in for Dan. his business/party needle definitely seemed to swing toward 'party' the one time I heard that combo. ETA: I don't mean to imply that Andy is 100% responsible for the atmosphere when Gania is there. Gania seems to bring at least as much of that as Dirks does. Dirks is definitely keying off the PxP guy. I think most color guys are like that anyway. Even Craig Monroe was better when he was on with Dan because Dan didn’t feed his worst instincts like Benetti did. By the way, i have to give props to Bobby Scales’s work last night. He seemed loose and informative most fo the broadcast with Dan, especially when they took a 30,000-foot view of the Tigers’ general situation, which happened a lot during last night’s broadcast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: I simply can’t envision major league players—especially marginal major leaguers who have left everything on the field for years as kids and young adults to become a Major League Baseball player, someone who is a 1-for-26 streak, or four straight bad outings on the mound, from seeing their careers end—just saying **** it all and start ****ing around on the field like they don’t care just because of a few deadline trades by the team they’re on that already wasn’t going to make the playoffs before anyway. These aren’t 9-to-5 office jobs you can Dilbert your way out of because there’s always a dozen other jobs around the corner you can get when they ****can you. This is the top of one of the most prestigious and rarely-attained professions in the world. And that’s what I mean by “come on”. I also don’t even see an established player with money and future years discarding all vestiges of their professionalism by ****ing around not the field like they don’t care anymore, because that would result in a huge reputational hit among other teams they might hope to continue their careers with, as well with as their peers whose respect they value more than just abut anything else. That does not pass any reasonable smell test. When I hear things ideas such as that being expressed, it sounds like nothing more than frustrated fan whinging. I don't think players tank. Why do they care of the franchise gets a higher draft pick? That probably isn't even in the top 100 things they are concerned about. When it's all said and done, baseball is an individual game. You hit better, you stay on the roster and you have a chance of making more money. Grounding to the 2nd baseman to advance the runner to 3rd isn't going to get a guy paid. And tanking and screwing off isn't going to help someone's case to stay in the majors. I'm sure there are guys who do that...most of the White Sox players, but it seems a good way to cut your career and earnings short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Things didn't go bad at the trade deadline. Things went bad when Riley Greene got hurt. Whenever they have lost Carpenter, Tork and/or Greene, the lineup has become much easier for opponents to navigate. That's why they need to add a couple more good bats, especially since Carpenter and Greene have dealt with injuries and Tork's lack of performance. Keith and Malloy were feasting on pitching with Greene hitting behind them. They have guys who can get the job done but they need more threats in the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 I think it’s crazy to think the players don’t give a ****. Many of them don’t have solid careers (Villade, Madris, Ibanez, Brieske, etc) and are fighting for their professional lives. They just aren’t very good. The one guy who has a very high, guaranteed salary laid out twice last night to try and prevent a ground ball from getting to the outfield. Don’t conflate talent with effort. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 As for the announcing crew, I like both Dirks and Scales as the color guys—both have been a revelation and I hope they can settle in more regularly on TV and radio, respectively. They are insightful, have some energy and aren’t homers about everything. For my enjoyment of the broadcasts, they have surpassed Dan and Jason. Dan is still very good at what he does, but he had to carry the load with Jim Price, especially as he aged during his last few seasons. Scales and Dirks bring a lot more as his partner. I know I’m in the minority, but I don’t get all of the Benneti love. He’s solid and at his best when he is actually discussing the game, but he spends so much time discussing other things that often delve into silly. I think he read too much of his own press on X when everyone was fawning over his hiring. It’s almost like he’s trying too hard, so maybe that will be tempered over time. He’s still a nice upgrade from Shep, but a long way from being as good as Mario was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, chasfh said: I simply can’t envision major league players—especially marginal major leaguers who have left everything on the field for years as kids and young adults to become a Major League Baseball player, someone who is a 1-for-26 streak, or four straight bad outings on the mound, from literally seeing their careers end—just saying **** it all and start ****ing around on the field like they don’t care just because of a few deadline trades by the team they’re on that already wasn’t going to make the playoffs before anyway. These aren’t 9-to-5 office jobs you can Dilbert your way out of because there’s always a dozen other jobs around the corner you can get when they ****can you. This is the top of one of the most prestigious and rarely-attained professions in the world. And that’s what I mean by “come on”. I also can’t envision an established player with money and future years discarding all vestiges of his professionalism by ****ing around on the field like he doesn’t care anymore, because that would result in a huge reputational hit among other organizations he might hope to continue his career with, as well as with his peers whose respect he values more than just about anything else. That also does not pass any reasonable smell test. When I hear ideas such as that being expressed, it sounds to me like nothing more than a frustrated fan just whinging. to me you are taking the most extreme take which I would argue is a bit of straw man. I'm not trying to say the guys are going to lay down on the field. The difference between enough success to win vs lose particularly for hitters, is very tiny, marginal loss of concentration in one or two AB a week, and the psychological factors in any group dynamic are real. Plus in baseball having a bad team objectively multiples your players' difficulties. Your pitchers are under more strain when the bats aren't behind them, your hitters are easier to pitch the shorter your line-up gets or when you are always behind. I probably short-handed it wrong in the initial post - to put it more accurately I'll put it that loss of talent can have a multiplier effect on a team that can be greater than just that of the individual player lost - part of which is strategic and part of which can follow from team morale and obviously the effect will vary with any particular group. If you don't think it happens, that's fine, but I'd argue that management thinks it matters. Teams are always trying to find players and managers who build team chemistry because they believe it can have a multiplying effect. But if you believe that can be true, you must also see that events can drive those same factors in the other direction. If you don't believe either is true, that's consistent and a valid take I won't argue. Edited August 3 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 On 8/2/2024 at 9:29 AM, chasfh said: So you’re declaring that the Detroit Tigers are a depressing work environment? Come on. This is where A.J. comes in. It is his primary directive to keep these guys motivated and playing hard. I know most people here think his Stanford psychology degree doesn’t mean ****-all and that he was just doing nothing but jacking off there for four years. I strongly disagree with that idea. I think he knows what he’s doing, and I know practically no one here agrees with me, but I think he’s good at it, and that players are doing better under him than they would if we brought Ron Gardenhire back out of retirement. I agree that Hinch know what he is doing, but I also think managers don't matter as much as fans think. It's the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 2 hours ago, Tenacious D said: I think it’s crazy to think the players don’t give a ****. Many of them don’t have solid careers (Villade, Madris, Ibanez, Brieske, etc) and are fighting for their professional lives. They just aren’t very good. The one guy who has a very high, guaranteed salary laid out twice last night to try and prevent a ground ball from getting to the outfield. Don’t conflate talent with effort. The vast majority of professional athletes care a lot. They are very competitive people which is part how they became professional athletes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: to me you are taking the most extreme take which I would argue is a bit of straw man. I'm not trying to say the guys are going to lay down on the field. I acknowledge I came back breathing fire at you, because honestly, hearing multiple posters here suggesting, or even flat out saying, that Harris and Hinch want to lose and players don't give a shĭt is just getting really, really, really tiresome. So it was the accumulation of my frustration at reading too much of that, and you happened to step into my line of fire. So I apologize for that. In my defense, "it's just human reality that a competitor with no reasonable chance to compete can't give you his best" still reads and re-reads to me as though you are saying that are players are laying up on effort because they're not playing on a winner, and I reject that premise. As TD said, most of the players you see on the field are fighting for their professional lives at any given moment, so the idea of them not giving their best strikes me as career suicide, and who does that after all the work they put in to get there in the first place? Do at least some guys do that? I suppose, although if they were wont to do so, they probably would have been found out and weeded out in the minors, if not before. But I do not think it's common at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 25 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I agree that Hinch know what he is doing, but I also think managers don't matter as much as fans think. It's the players. Maybe. He got fired in Arizona because he lost the locker room In Houston, he either lost the locker room because the player's did what they wanted or he outrighted lied about wanting them to quit cheating. To a lot of the players, managers are probably interchangeable. I do know that Zach McKinstry must love Hinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 21 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I agree that Hinch know what he is doing, but I also think managers don't matter as much as fans think. It's the players. As far switching up batting orders and moving players around different defensive positions and even managing bullpen usage is concerned—after all, much of what dictates who's going to pitch in a particular spot depends on the bullpen workload management plan, not who is the one guy we can depend on for an out in this situation, which is usually the same guy anyway—I agree managers have far less an effect on a team's ability to win than traditional fans give it credit for. Players generally have an established level of talent at a given moment, and no amount of managing is going to increase that talent in that moment. We're on the same page there. As far as managing players' psyches and emotions, helping them work through problems and fears and concerns, coaching them to be confident in and maximize their talents, and generally putting them in the best frame of mind so they can comfortably give their best efforts on the field, I think managers have a tremendous impact on a player's performance in that regard. Not talking about you here, but some people will never agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 1 minute ago, tiger2022 said: Maybe. He got fired in Arizona because he lost the locker room In Houston, he either lost the locker room because the player's did what they wanted or he outrighted lied about wanting them to quit cheating. To a lot of the players, managers are probably interchangeable. I do know that Zach McKinstry must love Hinch. We DFA McKinstry. Who replaces him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 9 minutes ago, chasfh said: We DFA McKinstry. Who replaces him? IDK - the ball boy in the RF corner made some nice plays this week.... 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: IDK - the ball boy in the RF corner made some nice plays this week.... 😉 lol no serious. Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 You CANNOT replace McKinstry. I actually don't even mind him on the roster but I don't want him starting 130 games a year. I think Kreidler can do everything Zach can and hit just as poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 16 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: IDK - the ball boy in the RF corner made some nice plays this week.... 😉 Would’of made the highlight clips on This Week in Baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 2 minutes ago, chasfh said: lol no serious. Who? DFAing McK wasn't my suggestion! McKinstry doesn't bother me as a bench player, but like with all bad teams, he's a player getting too many PA for his proper role because there is no-one better. People talk about Jace but the person that replaces McKinstry has to be at least semi competent at SS and no combination of Jung, Keith, Ibanez and Urshella gives you a backup SS. Kreidler hasn't shown anything in his auditions. So they are stuck, with McGonigle at least another year away IF he pans out. Puts me back in mind that letting Iggy walk was another big roster value loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 28 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: DFAing McK wasn't my suggestion! McKinstry doesn't bother me as a bench player, but like with all bad teams, he's a player getting too many PA for his proper role because there is no-one better. People talk about Jace but the person that replaces McKinstry has to be at least semi competent at SS and no combination of Jung, Keith, Ibanez and Urshella gives you a backup SS. Kreidler hasn't shown anything in his auditions. So they are stuck, with McGonigle at least another year away IF he pans out. Puts me back in mind that letting Iggy walk was another big roster value loser. It was me because….wait for it…..he stinks. And yeas the ball boy will do but if not then Trey Sweeney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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