9/6/24 9:40PM Tigers @ A's

[gehringer_2]

18 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I would say that not having starters who can pitch a lot of innings and not having great high leverage relievers is the reason.  Given that, I think Hinch has handled the staff masterfully. 

Meh. Don't need apologetics here. Hinch is fine in general but when a guy who doesn't even work regularly with saves on the line has 7 BS, he has to be your absolute last choice - maybe even after McKinstry. But if you want to deflect for Hinch, give me one good reason Miller is even still on the team. He just a dead-end now anyway. They might as well be looking at some-one/anyone else.

Edited September 7, 2024 by gehringer_2

[1776]

I’m really OK if Torkelson isn’t on the 2025 Detroit Tigers roster. 

[gehringer_2]

20 minutes ago, 1776 said:

I’m really OK if Torkelson isn’t on the 2025 Detroit Tigers roster. 

except that they can't go into next season with zero RH power in the line-up. He's not looking like the answer but they can't go into next season not answering the question. Matt V is nice player, but he's not going keep you in games against LHP. If you are going to go 6+ LH bats the remaining RH guys must be able to reliably destroy LHP with power or you are doomed to lose to every team that can toss a couple LH relievers at you.

Edited September 7, 2024 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

50 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Meh. Don't need apologetics here. Hinch is fine in general but when a guy who doesn't even work regularly with saves on the line has 7 BS, he has to be your absolute last choice - maybe even after McKinstry. But if you want to deflect for Hinch, give me one good reason Miller is even still on the team. He just a dead-end now anyway. They might as well be looking at some-one/anyone else.

His 0.94 WHIP is one good reason.  So, he must be getting somebody out.  My point was that the starters don't pitch enough innings, so that the relievers get over worked and Hinch is sometimes forced to use pitchers in spots where they are not best suited.  Even with that, I think Hinch has managed the staff brilliantly.  

[Edman85]

I've never seen so much second guessing of the choice of the sixth reliever in an extra inning marathon. It's almost as if re-entry was an option or something. Are we pining for Vanasco?

[Tiger337]

26 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

except that they can't go into next season with zero RH power in the line-up. He's not looking like the answer but they can't go into next season not answering the question. Matt V is nice player, but he's not going keep you in games against LHP. If you are going to go 6+ LH bats the remaining RH guys must be able to reliably destroy LHP with power or you are doomed to lose to every team that can toss a couple LH relievers at you.

If they can't find a cheap right-handed hitter batter (who can't field) better than Torkelson this off season, then Harris isn't the genius people are making him out to be.  The only reason to keep Torkelson is if you think you can fix him.  

[RatkoVarda]

A Skubal start, where they eventually got 6 runs, and actually scored vs Miller - and they lose???

!@#$%^&*()!

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

If they can't find a cheap right-handed hitter batter (who can't field) better than Torkelson this off season, then Harris isn't the genius people are making him out to be.  The only reason to keep Torkelson is if you think you can fix him.  

agreed

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

His 0.94 WHIP is one good reason.

there are times it's easy to lose the forest for the trees. Not many guys with a sub one WHIP fold like a cheap suit with a game on the line like Miller. 7 BS is a real measurement too.

[oblong]

I would add to Lee’s point -  do you think you can fix him and is he willing to do what you think is required?

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Edman85 said:

I've never seen so much second guessing of the choice of the sixth reliever in an extra inning marathon. It's almost as if re-entry was an option or something. Are we pining for Vanasco?

LOL - Heck yes I would have used him before Miller. If I lose with Vanasco at least I've learned something about someone that's still in play. Miller is a lost cause.

[Sports_Freak]

27 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

LOL - Heck yes I would have used him before Miller. If I lose with Vanasco at least I've learned something about someone that's still in play. Miller is a lost cause.

Hinch overmanaged. He could have won if he would have used his bullpen properly. And it's not the first time this season...

[Sports_Freak]

29 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

LOL - Heck yes I would have used him before Miller. If I lose with Vanasco at least I've learned something about someone that's still in play. Miller is a lost cause.

And he'll have to be used today. The BP is pretty thin. 

[Tiger337]

32 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

there are times it's easy to lose the forest for the trees. Not many guys with a sub one WHIP fold like a cheap suit with a game on the line like Miller. 7 BS is a real measurement too.

You asked me for one good reason why he should be on the team.  I answered WHIP because I think pitchers that don't allow a lot of base runners have a place on a team.  If you asked me to give you a reason why the Tigers should accept his option for 2025, I would not have give you a reason.  

Miller has won six games for the Tigers this year, third on the team! 😃

 

[gehringer_2]

41 minutes ago, oblong said:

I would add to Lee’s point -  do you think you can fix him and is he willing to do what you think is required?

At this point it looks like one of two things are true, either they are coaching against where his talent actually is, or the talent isn't there. Unfortunately the only way that question gets resolved is if/when he goes somewhere else and either succeeds or fails.

[Tiger337]

12 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Hinch overmanaged. He could have won if he would have used his bullpen properly. And it's not the first time this season...

As someone who doesn't usually think managers are that important, I believe Hinch has worked his entire staff beautifully this year.  

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

You asked me for one good reason why he should be on the team.  I answered WHIP because I think pitchers that don't allow a lot of base runners have a place on a team.  If you asked me to give you a reason why the Tigers should accept his option for 2025, I would not have give you a reason.  

Miller has won six games for the Tigers this year, third on the team! 😃

 

OK, that's fair as a specific response. I just haven't seen a role for him since the deadline and would rather be looking at someone else. I guess they are so thin they feel they are out of bodies, but if they  can come up with guys like Montero, I'd have thought they could score at least one more reliever they'd like a look at.

Edited September 7, 2024 by gehringer_2

[HeyAbbott]

3 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

If they can't find a cheap right-handed hitter batter (who can't field) better than Torkelson this off season, then Harris isn't the genius people are making him out to be.  The only reason to keep Torkelson is if you think you can fix him.  

I cannot agree more. If there was a reasonably tepid replacement for Tork, one absolutely,  and with no hesitation,  take the replacement. I am damned sick and tired of seeing resources being squandered on him.

[Sports_Freak]

58 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

As someone who doesn't usually think managers are that important, I believe Hinch has worked his entire staff beautifully this year.  

For the most part, I agree. Using Holton in a non-save situation, last night, was a mistake. Using Miller in a save situation, last night, was a mistake. But it is what it is, today's game may have limited BP arms to choose from.

[Tenacious D]

This is a .500 team.  As such, we don’t have a particularly deep or proficient bullpen.  The home team has the advantage in these extra innings games—I was happy we went as deep as we did.

If there is a criticism, it’s that we don’t have a playoff-caliber roster.

I can’t let a game like last night ruin my outlook on this season.  We’re making great progress with a very young, inexperienced squad.  Enjoy the ride.

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

there are times it's easy to lose the forest for the trees. Not many guys with a sub one WHIP fold like a cheap suit with a game on the line like Miller. 7 BS is a real measurement too.

But how many blown saves will it take for Hinch to learn the guy stinks under pressure? A good manager puts his players in the best situation to succeed. Then there's Hinch....who tries to mix and match. That doesn't usually work most of the time. Thus, 7 blown saves....from ONE pitcher. There are probably entire pitching staffs that don't have 7 blown saves.

[Sports_Freak]

3 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

This is a .500 team.  As such, we don’t have a particularly deep or proficient bullpen.  The home team has the advantage in these extra innings games—I was happy we went as deep as we did.

If there is a criticism, it’s that we don’t have a playoff-caliber roster.

I can’t let a game like last night ruin my outlook on this season.  We’re making great progress with a very young, inexperienced squad.  Enjoy the ride.

Harris pulled an Yzerman at the trade deadline. Just think if we still had 4 players he traded away...Chafin, Flaherty, Canha and Carson Kelly? A playoff roster. But....not good enough.

[Tenacious D]

2 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Harris pulled an Yzerman at the trade deadline. Just think if we still had 4 players he traded away...Chafin, Flaherty, Canha and Carson Kelly? A playoff roster. But....not good enough.

We’re actually playing better (W-L wise) since those moves were made, with young replacements who are now getting valuable playing time.  At this point, I’d rather have Liranzo in the org than a couple more months of Flaherty.

[Sports_Freak]

13 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

We’re actually playing better (W-L wise) since those moves were made, with young replacements who are now getting valuable playing time.  At this point, I’d rather have Liranzo in the org than a couple more months of Flaherty.

Yeah, I don't think it really matters. We aren't a playoff team without those guys and we were probably an early out even if we would have made the playoffs with those guys. But yeah, keep acquiring players until something sticks...

[gehringer_2]

28 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

But how many blown saves will it take for Hinch to learn the guy stinks under pressure?

Hinch certainly knows it, but maybe Jim Leyland should have taught us that managers look at their teams a little differently than fans do. If you have a losing player, don't expect a manager to not use him if he's on the roster, it's up to the GM to make the change.