Pete Rose RIP

[tiger2022]

Charlie Hustle, RIP.

[Edman85]

1 minute ago, tiger2022 said:

Charlie Hustle, RIH.

Fixed that for ya.

[Tenacious D]

[Tiger337]

12 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Fixed that for ya.

I understand the sentiment, but he was a big part of my baseball memories growing up.  He turned out to be an awful person, but I still remember Charlie Hustle.

[1776]

One of Sparky’s boys.

RIP

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I understand the sentiment, but he was a big part of my baseball memories growing up.  He turned out to be an awful person, but I still remember Charlie Hustle.

IDK - He was an awful person on the field as well. I never liked guys like Rose that was willing to hurt people on the field to win. A clean slide is one thing, but barreling guys over never belonging in the game in the first place and the game is better for it being removed. Always bothered me about Gibson as well. At least Kirk has grown enough to admit today that he was wrong then. I don't know that Rose ever did.

Edited October 1 by gehringer_2

[tiger2022]

With all of his faults, he still is a huge part of baseball history. 

 

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

IDK - He was an awful person on the field as well. I never liked guys like Rose that was willing to hurt people on the field to win. A clean slide is one thing, but barreling guys over never belonging in the game in the first place and the game is better for it being removed. Always bothered me about Gibson as well. At least Kirk has grown enough to admit today that he was wrong then. I don't know that Rose ever did.

I grew to dislike him too, but as a kid in the 70s, I though he was entertaining.  He was mean, but I also think his hustle was very real if misguided.  

[Edman85]

23 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I understand the sentiment, but he was a big part of my baseball memories growing up.  He turned out to be an awful person, but I still remember Charlie Hustle.

Try growing up where he is a God. It will radicalize ya...

[gehringer_2]

25 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

With all of his faults, he still is a huge part of baseball history. 

 

No question about that.

[tiger2022]

Think there will be a push to put him in the Hall of Fame now?

[bobrob2004]

I never saw him play. He was before my time. The only memories I have of him is him being an asshole.  His numbers are historical, but I don't have the nostalgia that most people here have.  May he rest in peace, but there's very little emotion here from me.  

Edited October 1 by bobrob2004

[Tenacious D]

Just now, bobrob2004 said:

I never saw him play. He was before my time. The only memories I have of him is him being an asshole.  His numbers are historical, but I don't have the nostalgia that most people here have.  May he rest in piece, but there's very little emotion here from me.  

I feel the same way about Ty Cobb.  

[bobrob2004]

Just now, Tenacious D said:

I feel the same way about Ty Cobb.  

What's worse is a lot of Cobb's reputation of being an asshole is a lie, made up in order to sell a book.  

[tiger2022]

Funny, Rose named one of his kids, Ty.

[lordstanley]

Is Ray Fosse up there trying to block Rose’s passage through the Pearly Gates?

[Edman85]

50 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

Think there will be a push to put him in the Hall of Fame now?

The ban is permanent. Not lifetime.

[CMU97]

Rose was one of the best players ever to put on a uniform,  there is no question about that. Like many of the greatest of the greats, he had a drive to win at all costs. He played in nearly every  single game for 22 of his 24 years, and was very productive productive into his 40's. He could not stand to lose.

He also came up in an era where star athletes were treated like God's, and their misdeeds were not reported.  Thus, giving them a God like ego. I think this was definitely Pete, thinking that whatever he did off the field was his own business.  I don't think he ever really had any remorse for anything he did, because he gave 110% on the field and that was enough. 

Off the field, he acted like the rules didn't apply to him, and anyone saying different was picking on him. The gambling,  hanging out with convicted felons in the clubhouse,  tax evasion,  he never owned up to it in a clear way. Always more sorry he got caught then sorry for his actions. 

I don't think we should forget that if he played today, he would never have gotten to 3,000 hits; only won one WS; and would have never managed.  In 1976 when he was 35, he had an affair with a  16 year old. He would have been out of baseball after that, just like Wander Franco, and we would not be having this discussion. And rightfully so.

Great ballplayer,  not a great human. 

 

[oblong]

There’s really no easy mechanism to put him in the HOF.  These things have to happen:

baseball has to take him off their list

if that happens then he’s technical eligible. But that still leaves it up to two HOF committees. One to put him on the ballot and another to vote him in. 

If baseball leaves him on the list then the HOF would have to change their rule they had in place since 1991.  Then the votes again by the committees. There’s even less of a chance the voters would vote for him if he’s still on baseballs list. 
 

MLB doesn’t run the HOF.  There’s no magic wand that can be waved to just say “put him in”  The HOF is a non profit with rules and bylaws that have to be followed.   
 

the media can whine all they want but it will never happen. 

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, bobrob2004 said:

What's worse is a lot of Cobb's reputation of being an asshole is a lie, made up in order to sell a book.  

I don't know.  He still came across as an asshole in the Leerhsen book, just not as bad as previous books.  He pushed an old woman down some stairs and beat up a crippled person.  

[Tiger337]

52 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

The ban is permanent. Not lifetime.

I still think he should be banned, but I feel less strongly about it now given MLB's hypocrisy around gambling.  

[tiger2022]

7 hours ago, Edman85 said:

The ban is permanent. Not lifetime.

So not the Steve Howe type of lifetime ban?

[casimir]

I suspect this is true, but is Rose the last player/manager in MLB?  I doubt we'll ever see that combined function again.

[Motor City Sonics]

31 minutes ago, casimir said:

I suspect this is true, but is Rose the last player/manager in MLB?  I doubt we'll ever see that combined function again.

I have a feeling that in our lifetime we're going to see quite a few managers that never even played the game - the way it's becoming so data-driven.    I can only think of Tony LaRussa right now, but a player-manager?   Too much information to deal with for one person to do both now.    There is no "feel" anymore. .    

[Motor City Sonics]

I'll save my respects for Dikembe Mutombo,  who worked with charities and helped others instead of the guy who threw away his own legacy on bets.     

That's the thing with guys like Pete - they can't stop "chasing it".    They'll sink everyone around them to feed that desire, too.   Great ballplayer?   Yep.    Horrible human?  Yep.     I know sometimes you have to separate the human from the work, it happens in art all the time.  I like some Lou Reed music, but Lou Reed was a horrible person.   Same thing for Jack Kerouac - I liked a couple of his books, but a pretty awful guy.     I can't separate it with Pete Rose because the bad things he did were within his work.  He never stopped with the gambling.  When he finally admitted it, he signed his book the next day at a casino.       That whole thing with having him place the first legal sports bet in Ohio just infuriated me and cemented my opinion of him.    Tone deaf til the end.    He just didn't get it.   He did it to himself.   

One day it will come out that Ohtani was the one gambling  (it was still illegal in California).   Baseball is praying it happens after his playing career.     If evidence comes out during his career, it's going to be earth-shattering for baseball.   I am convinced they know it was him and are covering it up.     Just like Ryan Braun blaming the courier.  It's going to come out one day.