ICroupier Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, TigerNation said: Would be a nice add. We also have a strong farm system that will allow us to trade for another impact bat as well if one becomes available. We absolutely need to add somebody, preferably a RHH, that we can pencil in for a 120+ OPS+. Vierling/Keith going from 3rd/5th to 5th/6th would really give you a deeper lineup, probably a fringe top 10 lineup, with upside for more depending on the development from the young guys. Like if Keith is able to make a jump to a 110-115 OPS+ guy that's probably a top 10 lineup. Greene making a jump to a 145-150 guy would also do that. There is a very clear path to a top 5 lineup by adding an Alonso type and trading for another impact hitter at the deadline, or preferably in the off-season. Ugh! Alonso is the exact opposite of what this team needs. He's soon to be 30, he barely hit .240, and struck out 172 times. And he'll cost a fortune. We already have enough high K, bad AB types. We need more high contact, bat on ball types. And if that means no "A" list FA, then so be it. But we don't have a single guy on the roster outside of Carp who consistently puts the bat on the ball, and that needs to change if we're going to be a real competitor. Edited October 6 by ICroupier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 Didn't the team go on their best run in 40 years after liberating themselves from some high payroll players through various means? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 They are more likely to dispose of the Baez contract than any big move. He won't play on this team again. I don't think they are going to change their contract risk model because of this run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 6 hours ago, 1776 said: Agreed. Before today’s first pitch I said that to lose two here is too much to overcome going forward. Must win Monday! No pressure Skub 😉 Pressure’s on the hitters more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 5 hours ago, Edman85 said: I was a little surprised to find earlier today the Tigers had a losing record in the regular season in opener games and a 3-6 record in Holton-started games. That didn't jibe with my recollection. That is the opposite of what I thought also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 2 hours ago, ICroupier said: Ugh! Alonso is the exact opposite of what this team needs. He's soon to be 30, he barely hit .240, and struck out 172 times. And he'll cost a fortune. We already have enough high K, bad AB types. We need more high contact, bat on ball types. And if that means no "A" list FA, then so be it. But we don't have a single guy on the roster outside of Carp who consistently puts the bat on the ball, and that needs to change if we're going to be a real competitor. I don’t think big money for first baseman makes sense in general and agree with the board not part of the plan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 Since I'm new to this, it might sound nuts. What I can't figure out; lets start with numbers and dates. If they lose the next two games, the best pitcher in the American league this year (going with my recent research) will only pitch one game in the series. He goes Monday, therefore, won't be available until Thursday at the earliest. They are already done if they lose on Wednesday. Given you have a dominating Cy Young candidate and then chaos for a pitching staff, you might want to max out his innings. A couple of guaranteed mathematical starts would be a good way to start. This is one of the dumbest things I ever saw. No wonder I quit watching. Maybe I'm missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoBert Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 3 hours ago, Screwball said: Given you have a dominating Cy Young candidate and then chaos for a pitching staff, you might want to max out his innings. A couple of guaranteed mathematical starts would be a good way to start. This is one of the dumbest things I ever saw. No wonder I quit watching. Maybe I'm missing something. I think the issue was sending him out there on short rest. He’s too valuable a commodity with too great a future to risk that future. He’s the anchor that keeps the Tigers from drifting away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoBert Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 8 hours ago, papalawrence said: For every positive huge free agent signing in MLB, there seems to be at least 2 awful contracts. Look at Detroit's history - Zimmermann, Baez. Upton was so-so. Look at the Angels history. So many bad signings I want Det to add 2 bats as much as anyone, but Alonso's ops dropped below 800. I think Harris stays the course with some mid tier signings and to continue replenishing from the farm. Det is building an identity - versatility, aggressive on the base paths, solid defense, lots of pitching. Control the strike zone (but their obp was 29th in MLB). 4 hours ago, SoCalTiger said: I don’t think big money for first baseman makes sense in general and agree with the board not part of the plan. 6 hours ago, ICroupier said: Ugh! Alonso is the exact opposite of what this team needs. He's soon to be 30, he barely hit .240, and struck out 172 times. And he'll cost a fortune. We already have enough high K, bad AB types. We need more high contact, bat on ball types. And if that means no "A" list FA, then so be it. But we don't have a single guy on the roster outside of Carp who consistently puts the bat on the ball, and that needs to change if we're going to be a real competitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 8 hours ago, Screwball said: Since I'm new to this, it might sound nuts. What I can't figure out; lets start with numbers and dates. If they lose the next two games, the best pitcher in the American league this year (going with my recent research) will only pitch one game in the series. He goes Monday, therefore, won't be available until Thursday at the earliest. They are already done if they lose on Wednesday. Given you have a dominating Cy Young candidate and then chaos for a pitching staff, you might want to max out his innings. A couple of guaranteed mathematical starts would be a good way to start. This is one of the dumbest things I ever saw. No wonder I quit watching. Maybe I'm missing something. He can still pitch twice if the series goes five games. The question is do they have him pitch on short rest in game 1 or game 5? By having in pitch in game 2 on normal rest, they get the best version of Skubal in that game. Then if they win the series in 4 games, they don't need to use him on short rest. If it goes five, he'll still be available though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 Yes, not pitching Skubal was the reason we lost last might. It has nothing to do with being shut out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelton Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 57 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: He can still pitch twice if the series goes five games. The question is do they have him pitch on short rest in game 1 or game 5? By having in pitch in game 2 on normal rest, they get the best version of Skubal in that game. Then if they win the series in 4 games, they don't need to use him on short rest. If it goes five, he'll still be available though. Game 2 to game 5 is still “normal” rest. Four days between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 2 minutes ago, Shelton said: Game 2 to game 5 is still “normal” rest. Four days between them. Yes, you are right. I don't know why I thought it was short rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 12 hours ago, Edman85 said: Didn't the team go on their best run in 40 years after liberating themselves from some high payroll players through various means? Young players without a long track record are just as likely or more likely to fail as 30 year old free agents. The difference of course is the team doesn't get stuck with long contracts. It is really difficult to have long term success without eventually spending some money though. The key is to identify which players are likely to age well. I would think if you trust Harris & Co to know which young players will be successful, then you would trust them to know which players would age well. Maybe none of those guys are available now. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 1 hour ago, Tenacious D said: Yes, not pitching Skubal was the reason we lost last might. It has nothing to do with being shut out. Maybe you should learn to read - nobody said that, or even insinuated that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: Yes, you are right. I don't know why I thought it was short rest. Short rest or not (only 1 day) - arguably, the best pitcher in baseball should get 2 starts in 3 games in a best of 5 series. If he does his job, you only need one more win, series over. If they didn't want to risk his health, I understand that. I don't know if they gave an explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 20 minutes ago, Screwball said: Short rest or not (only 1 day) - arguably, the best pitcher in baseball should get 2 starts in 3 games in a best of 5 series. If he does his job, you only need one more win, series over. If they didn't want to risk his health, I understand that. I don't know if they gave an explanation. Do they owe you an explanation? It’s pretty clear they are prioritizing his health and effectiveness. He’s never come close to throwing this many innings (and counting). One guy can’t carry this team. The plan that got us this far has to continue to work. But more importantly, our young lineup needs to figure out their bullpen, which is full of Tyler Holton’s. We’re playing the best team we’ve faced in the last 40 games or so. If this ends up being the end of the road, it will not tarnish the season for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 7 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: Do they owe you an explanation? It’s pretty clear they are prioritizing his health and effectiveness. He’s never come close to throwing this many innings (and counting). One guy can’t carry this team. The plan that got us this far has to continue to work. But more importantly, our young lineup needs to figure out their bullpen, which is full of Tyler Holton’s. We’re playing the best team we’ve faced in the last 40 games or so. If this ends up being the end of the road, it will not tarnish the season for me. They owe me nothing, and I don't think it's pretty clear. He threw 88 pitches against Houston. His last start before that game was a week before. That's hardly overworked IMO. He would still be adding innings to his arm on Friday if they get that far, so what's the difference? Difference is, they might be eliminated by Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICroupier Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 18 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: Do they owe you an explanation? It’s pretty clear they are prioritizing his health and effectiveness. He’s never come close to throwing this many innings (and counting). One guy can’t carry this team. The plan that got us this far has to continue to work. But more importantly, our young lineup needs to figure out their bullpen, which is full of Tyler Holton’s. We’re playing the best team we’ve faced in the last 40 games or so. If this ends up being the end of the road, it will not tarnish the season for me. Completely agree. It won't tarnish the season, and it gives the youngsters a taste of what they are aspiring to get back to. That said, if we end up being outclassed and overmatched in this series, I hope it results in some soul searching on the part of Harris. And that doesn't mean going all in on next season and signing expensive FAs. But rather, recognizing what the team truly needs to be more successful: -- High contact, professional hitters -- Offensive contributions from the corner infield spots -- A legit #2 starter. If there is one spot I would spend on in FA, it's here. We cannot compete with Skubal and scraps -- More team speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 It's quite the leap to assume an ace pitcher on short rest will remain an ace pitcher. I did the math several years ago and it actually works out that the leverage and likelihood of a game happening are directly inversely proportional. To put another way, if he's in line for Games 2 and 5, that's fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 44 minutes ago, Screwball said: They owe me nothing, and I don't think it's pretty clear. He threw 88 pitches against Houston. His last start before that game was a week before. That's hardly overworked IMO. He would still be adding innings to his arm on Friday if they get that far, so what's the difference? Difference is, they might be eliminated by Friday. with Skubal, they are also worried about the jump from last year. Two yrs ago he threw 117 innings, last yr 80. This season he is at 192 could easily have another 30 in front of him if they stay in it. And nobody really knows how much risk that is or isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 Regardless of if Skubal pitched game 1 or game 2, we still have to win 3 of the 5 games in the series…. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 15 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: with Skubal, they are also worried about the jump from last year. Two yrs ago he threw 117 innings, last yr 80. This season he is at 192 could easily have another 30 in front of him if they stay in it. And nobody really knows how much risk that is or isn't. It is still piling up innings no matter what game it is. The only difference is game 1 would have been on 4 days rest. 5 game series, first to win 3. Best pitcher has to be in 2 of them. I guess I spent too many years watching Billy, Sparky and Smoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 Game 1 starter can pitch Game 4 on full rest. Game 2 starter can pitch Game 5 on full rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 23 minutes ago, Screwball said: It is still piling up innings no matter what game it is. The only difference is game 1 would have been on 4 days rest. 5 game series, first to win 3. Best pitcher has to be in 2 of them. I guess I spent too many years watching Billy, Sparky and Smoke. Game 1 was three days rest. And Skubal had the trainer visit him a couple of times too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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