American League Division Series Game #2 10/7/24 4:08PM

[casimir]

7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Believe me when I tell you, when you actually are at the game, you feel all the anxiety.

As an "away" fan?  Oh, heck yes.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, clark1mt said:

I went back and watched the 8th inning Kwan catch replay review, listening to both the DET and CLE radio feeds. Interestingly, both Dan and Bobby were convinced it was a catch, and the Cleveland broadcast was convinced it was a trap.

I could tell watching it live it was a trap. Even from some 300 feet away, with my vision correct by glasses, I could see the ball change direction before settling in his glove. I so assumed it was a trap and didn't see any umpire call it an out that I was confused as to what was happening when the umpires gathered. And then when they showed it on the big screen, I knew I was right, but I also still didn't know they'd called him out, because if the umpire said so before the review, I couldn't hear him say so over the crowd noise. Before all that finally landed with me, the thing I was most pissed off about was that Vierling wasn't bolting to the plate from second base with two out. What was he hanging around second for?

Thank god we did not have a loss turn on that.

[chasfh]

47 minutes ago, casimir said:

So, which was more odd visually?  The home plate umpire's fluctuating strike zone or @chasfh in jeggings?

I had to look up that word.

[chasfh]

19 minutes ago, Longgone said:

This is being way overstated here. He k’s 7/9, not all that egregious, and opponents hit .228 off of him. He’s a solid option if he’s healthy.

A 7 K/9 is well below average in the major leagues, and opponents hit .228 off him this season because his BABIP was .261. These are not good signs for a leverage guy.

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, casimir said:

As an "away" fan?  Oh, heck yes.

I shook hands with a couple Cleveland fans after the game. Everyone agreed it was an outstanding game.

Thank god it's not the 1930s or 40s or 50s, as a fan of the opposing team I would have been murdered before I got out.

[casimir]

7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I could tell watching it live it was a trap. Even from some 300 feet away, with my vision correct by glasses, I could see the ball change direction before settling in his glove. I so assumed it was a trap and didn't see any umpire call it an out that I was confused as to what was happening when the umpires gathered. And then when they showed it on the big screen, I knew I was right, but I also still didn't know they'd called him out, because if the umpire said so before the review, I couldn't hear him say so over the crowd noise. Before all that finally landed with me, the thing I was most pissed off about was that Vierling wasn't bolting to the plate from second base with two out. What was he hanging around second for?

Thank god we did not have a loss turn on that.

I think it was a partial catch and partial trap.  I don't think the replay was conclusively showing the ball landing on the grass.  I also think the angle of Kwan's glove was outward enough that it overcame some of the downward that a mind might think for a trapped ball.

Obviously as fan I wanted the ball to be ruled a hit.  But, I was also curious what the ruling of Perez would have been had they ruled it a hit.  He was eventually tagged out between 1st and.  Would they have awarded everyone one base?  Would they have ruled Perez out on the basepaths after safely singling?

Considering how iffy that ball was and how inconclusive the replay was, I was surprised how quickly that the final verdict was arrived it.

[casimir]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I shook hands with a couple Cleveland fans after the game. Everyone agreed it was an outstanding game.

It's up there with game 163, but with a better result.

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

I think it was a partial catch and partial trap.  I don't think the replay was conclusively showing the ball landing on the grass.  I also think the angle of Kwan's glove was outward enough that it overcame some of the downward that a mind might think for a trapped ball.

Obviously as fan I wanted the ball to be ruled a hit.  But, I was also curious what the ruling of Perez would have been had they ruled it a hit.  He was eventually tagged out between 1st and.  Would they have awarded everyone one base?  Would they have ruled Perez out on the basepaths after safely singling?

Considering how iffy that ball was and how inconclusive the replay was, I was surprised how quickly that the final verdict was arrived it.

I think had they ruled it a hit in the moment Wenceel would not have been loitering between first and second, unless Vierling was on his was home, which he wasn't, which, what the ****.

But I'm with what was said earlier: I would think umpires typically rule something that close a trap. But these guys very aggressively called it an out. I know that's what they honestly thought in the moment but still, that was pretty unusual.

 

[Motor City Sonics]

Help me here.  Maybe at nearly 60 my memory is failing me, but Kerry Carpenter kind of came out of nowhere, right?   I don't recall seeing him on any top prospects lists,  at least nowhere near the Top 10.  

[CMRivdogs]

5 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Help me here.  Maybe at nearly 60 my memory is failing me, but Kerry Carpenter kind of came out of nowhere, right?   I don't recall seeing him on any top prospects lists,  at least nowhere near the Top 10.  

I had to look up his Wikipedia page, he was drafted in the 19th round (2019) out of VaTech (after two years of JrCollege ball). I remember he showed power early and was talked about a bit on the boards. 

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Help me here.  Maybe at nearly 60 my memory is failing me, but Kerry Carpenter kind of came out of nowhere, right?   I don't recall seeing him on any top prospects lists,  at least nowhere near the Top 10.  

Yeah, he was never highly rated, but he did put up some good numbers.  The boxscore watchers were right this time.  He was a 19th rounder out of Virginia Tech.  Briam Bluhm would have loved him.

[Shelton]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Magglio walkoff.

A lot of us were at that game, but I think the number of folks to have been at that one plus last night’s game are few and far between. Pretty cool for you. 
 

Not surprisingly, that game/moment is being compared to last night by the local radio team and their callers this morning. It’s perfect radio fodder, because I really do think it’s a close call if you were forced to rank them.

A home run in the ALCS to clinch a World Series spot carries a lot of weight. But it was also in the bottom of the ninth where a single would also have been enough. And the tigers were leading the series 3-0 at the time. Without it, worst case is a 3-1 series lead. 
 

Kerry’s 3-run shot in the top of the 9th effectively sealed the game and a 1-1 series. But it’s still only the ALDS. A single would have given a 1-0 lead, and still left the result up in the air. Without it, worst case is a 0-2 series and season on life support. 
 

Hard to say!

Edited October 8 by Shelton
Typo

[RatkoVarda]

50 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Help me here.  Maybe at nearly 60 my memory is failing me, but Kerry Carpenter kind of came out of nowhere, right?   I don't recall seeing him on any top prospects lists,  at least nowhere near the Top 10.  

in addition to his late draft round, 2 other memorable stories about Carpenter: he sat for a great MLB Network interview, where he described how his mom and sister convinced him he could actually play pro ball; it wasn't the usual vapid interview; his goal was to join military

like Hinch, his dad died before his MLB debut; Hinch talked a little bit about that when Carp cam up

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

I think it was a partial catch and partial trap.  I don't think the replay was conclusively showing the ball landing on the grass.  I also think the angle of Kwan's glove was outward enough that it overcame some of the downward that a mind might think for a trapped ball.

Obviously as fan I wanted the ball to be ruled a hit.  But, I was also curious what the ruling of Perez would have been had they ruled it a hit.  He was eventually tagged out between 1st and.  Would they have awarded everyone one base?  Would they have ruled Perez out on the basepaths after safely singling?

Considering how iffy that ball was and how inconclusive the replay was, I was surprised how quickly that the final verdict was arrived it.

the way I would interpret the rule that shouldn't be possible. It should not have have mattered if a few degrees of Kwan's glove was under the ball because if *any* part of the ball contacted the ground, it's not a catch. I think too many people lost the forest for the trees there trying to decide if some part of the ball was on Kwan's glove. That shouldn't have been the question - it should have been did any part of the ball touch the ground, and to me it clearly did.

Edited October 8 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

A 7 K/9 is well below average in the major leagues, and opponents hit .228 off him this season because his BABIP was .261. These are not good signs for a leverage guy.

and that's the thing with CLE, they don't hit for much average outside Ramirez, but they don't strike out, so they are on the high side for putting balls in play.

Taking a look at Foley's season results on FG, things that jump out compared to last season are that his walk rate is up and GB rate is down, and HR/FB is up. If you look at his pitch mix, what you see is that after dropping it last year, he has added a 4 seam fastball back to his mix. Amateur observer sleuth here says he added the 4 seamer to try to up his K rate (because that's what closers do, right?). The problem is that Ks are not up and instead the effectiveness of his sinker has dropped off. I've heard some pitchers say they cannot throw both the sinker and 4 seamer without one messing up their delivery of the other. Maybe Foley is one. And of course, not easy to retool at this point.

[SoCalTiger]

What a game. What a team. The tension building until carpenters blast. Unreal.

[Motor City Sonics]

CARPE(nter) DIEM !

[TigerNation]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

the way I would interpret the rule that shouldn't be possible. It should not have have mattered if a few degrees of Kwan's glove was under the ball because if *any* part of the ball contacted the ground, it's not a catch. I think too many people lost the forest for the trees there trying to decide if some part of the ball was on Kwan's glove. That shouldn't have been the question - it should have been did any part of the ball touch the ground, and to me it clearly did.

Right, you can't clearly see the glove under the ball. The odds of him getting the glove fully under the ball to the exact millimeter without the ball touching the grass, but you being unable to see any part of the glove under the ball when it bounces is so small. The overwhelmingly likely reason you can't see the glove under the entire ball is because the ball blocks the view of his glove when it hit the ground.

Edited October 8 by TigerNation

[Tigeraholic1]

 

[Sports_Freak]

55 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

Right, you can't clearly see the glove under the ball. The odds of him getting the glove fully under the ball to the exact millimeter without the ball touching the grass, but you being unable to see any part of the glove under the ball when it bounces is so small. The overwhelmingly likely reason you can't see the glove under the entire ball is because the ball blocks the view of his glove when it hit the ground.

The fact is, even in super slow motion, it's nearly impossible to see if the ball even touched a blade of grass. It was called a catch in live action, no evidence could overturn that. The same as if it were called a trapped catch, it would have stood. That play was pretty incredible, so close many people are still seeing both sides of it. I say it was a catch, the ball hit his mitt and bounced into the pocket. But so close....

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

in addition to his late draft round, 2 other memorable stories about Carpenter: he sat for a great MLB Network interview, where he described how his mom and sister convinced him he could actually play pro ball; it wasn't the usual vapid interview; his goal was to join military

like Hinch, his dad died before his MLB debut; Hinch talked a little bit about that when Carp cam up

I also read an article where he said he made a major adjustment in his swing after the draft and it enabled him to hit for more power. Maybe he could teach Tork how to hit....🤣🤣

[Shinzaki]

That catch was like the dress thing online from a long time ago...is it blue and black  or white and gold?   Depends on how you look at it

[Shinzaki]

Just now, Sports_Freak said:

I also read an article where he said he made a major adjustment in his swing after the draft and it enabled him to hit for more power. Maybe he could teach Tork how to hit....🤣🤣

The story on Tork is that he's been hesitant to make major changes to his swing.

No idea if that's true.  I wonder if Carpenter can play 1st...

[Sports_Freak]

4 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

The story on Tork is that he's been hesitant to make major changes to his swing.

No idea if that's true.  I wonder if Carpenter can play 1st...

Carp could probably learn 1st base but we would still need a RH bat to play there against LH pitchers. Unless we want to see Carpenter prove once and for all whether he can hit LH pitchers...

[Sports_Freak]

5 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

I also read an article where he said he made a major adjustment in his swing after the draft and it enabled him to hit for more power. Maybe he could teach Tork how to hit....🤣🤣

Here's another good article about Carp changing his swing while at Erie;

https://www.mlb.com/tigers/news/kerry-carpenter-s-hot-streak-in-tigers-minor-leagues